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All Too Hard Service Fee $66000

Breeding
senseisensei    100 posts
edited April 2013 Breeding

I daresay his book will be filled.

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  • DaleDale    1,346 posts
    fair price, no arguments from me... but i cant afford to send a mare to (insert your least favorite stallion here) this season anyway...
  • RadmanRadman    1,992 posts
    (RIO)

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  • RIORIO    14,132 posts
    Radman said:

    (RIO)

    What do you mean least favorite???? Everyone loves me. Just ask me.
  • RadmanRadman    1,992 posts
    edited April 2013
    Sorry RIO, but your service fee has declined so much in recent years that now you have to pay the mares. Admit it buddy.

    RIO, Chris likes this post.

  • DaleDale    1,346 posts
    like the good old days when a stallion was walked all around the country looking for ANYONE who had a spare shilling to have their mare serviced. Sounds like RIO is that....But These days we call it man whoring.

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  • RIORIO    14,132 posts
    tomato tomarto......whats in a name... =))

    oh and not in the past few years of course..Mrs Rio does read this forum!!!! :-*
  • RIORIO    14,132 posts
    second thoughts get back to the topic you thread destroyers..

    $66,000... will he get a full book??? And actually what is a full book for the top end of town 50 - 75 - 100???
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,071 posts
    Anything less than 150 I would consider to be a failure based on the level of publicity East Coast journalists have given this horse. $66,000 they may get but value it is not. A lot of breeders will get burnt by this horse, but a lot of yearling buyers will as well.

    I don't believe a fee has been talked about for Pierro but I would imagine they will pitch him for slightly less. If they went at the same figure, Pierro would get more mares.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    insurance purposes before he travels ;)
  • twiggytwiggy    55 posts
    Damien, as a respected bloodstock agent ,surely you aren't forming an opinion of how many mares a sire should receive based on the level of publicity given to a horse by journalists.
    Whilst any first season sire has huge risks associated with them, a lot of very smart and well respected people within the breeding industry are involved in it's ownership and he will be very well supported. Vinery just like the others do Coolmore, Darley etc will ensure that he receives a good book of quality mares.
    You seem to have a taken a set against this horse from day one, and that is your prerogative but up until this point in time the horse has delivered and I wouldn't be so sure he won't continue to do so.

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  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    helmet 10k euro , sepoy 15k pound
    helmet 33k aus , sepoy $66k aus
    whilst resume doesn't read quiet as good, add family hype all too hard priced where you'ld expect it will be interesting to see what his northern hemisphere fee will be , i guess it will depend on his run in the queen anne
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,071 posts
    twiggy said:

    Damien, as a respected bloodstock agent ,surely you aren't forming an opinion of how many mares a sire should receive based on the level of publicity given to a horse by journalists.
    Whilst any first season sire has huge risks associated with them, a lot of very smart and well respected people within the breeding industry are involved in it's ownership and he will be very well supported. Vinery just like the others do Coolmore, Darley etc will ensure that he receives a good book of quality mares.
    You seem to have a taken a set against this horse from day one, and that is your prerogative but up until this point in time the horse has delivered and I wouldn't be so sure he won't continue to do so.

    Publicity and dinner table bragging rights make as much sense as breeding and race record to some folks. Commonsense is over ruled by commercial hype all the time, and what is red hot one season can be just a fading blip three seasons later. The Industry is littered with those. All Too Hard is a lovely racehorse, no question, but his future as a sire is doubtful based on his sireline which is in decline. To arrest it he will have to be a hell of a horse, as Casino Prince is nothing much more than a one trick Stallion with a lousy record.

    He will get enormous support, but that doesn't really mean a lot as those who support a $66,000 Stallion, for the most part, are not on the bones of their arse and can take the hit when it is delivered.

    I have had discussions with many in the Industry on this, my view is very different to a lot of them, as I say we have a responsibility to breed champions or at least try. A couple of well credentialed experts whilst visiting Perth for the sales, told me emphatically that I was 100% wrong. Another one in Adelaide also said I was wrong, but added that none of his mares would ever be covered by him. He said the horse would be a commercial success but wouldn't produce.

    Time will tell. Not many of my clients agree with me on this. But that is the good thing about breeding, it is opinion based until the offspring repeatedly prove you right or wrong.

  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Whilst I think $66,000 is a tad high he will get his numbers but your friend to say he won't produce is a bit harsh when the sperm hits the egg anything is possible so like you say time will tell, if he was sent every Bel Espirit mare in Australia he is some chance and then add any Danehill line mare then the odds only get better so it is all a waiting game.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    you've also got to look from a different view that when you set a fee what quality of mare are you going to receive ?
  • dungydungy    9,278 posts
    twiggy said:

    Damien, as a respected bloodstock agent ,surely you aren't forming an opinion of how many mares a sire should receive based on the level of publicity given to a horse by journalists.
    Whilst any first season sire has huge risks associated with them, a lot of very smart and well respected people within the breeding industry are involved in it's ownership and he will be very well supported. Vinery just like the others do Coolmore, Darley etc will ensure that he receives a good book of quality mares.
    You seem to have a taken a set against this horse from day one, and that is your prerogative but up until this point in time the horse has delivered and I wouldn't be so sure he won't continue to do so.


    He has taken a set against the horse because its made him look like a mug ,he stated it will end up being a sire in Perth or Tassie then it won the next 5 straight at gr-1
    :)) the people involved in this horse have brains and $$$ and have bred the odd horse i have no doubt it will be fly at stud
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,071 posts
    Well it will be interesting to see of the $6000 full brother to Black Caviar, Moshe, can actually do a better job at Stud, given that he would not have seen anywhere near the quality of mare that All Too Hard will get in opportunities. At this point only 6 of the 175 mares covered have returned so it seems like he is a fertile Stallion, so that will give him plenty of opportunities. All Too Hard will get a huge book as well, most likely in excess of 150 mares, so a direct comparison will be made by many. But a considerable difference in the asking price, one at $6,600 and the other at $66,000. One by a proven Stallion, the other by a proven failure.
  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    So how many actual foals have you bred for yourself Damien or do you just theorise on possible outcomes.
  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts
    A responsibility to breed champions ay, well hardly with some of the stallions that are here in WA! And anyway champions tend to come out of left field, can be by a donkey out of a donkey! A better way may be to say sound, tractable and from good families eg All Too Hard might be be by an average stallion but he's from a champion producing family and very prepotent one with a lot of depth. And the bloke who owns Helsinge doesnt seem like a dill, perhaps should look at why he went to Casino Prince. Question at $66k who would you prefer All Too Hard or So You Think?
  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Wonder how many will knock him now
  • dungydungy    9,278 posts
    Won a Caulfield Guins,2nd in a Cox Plate as a 3 yold ,4 other gr-1 against older horses in both Mel and Syd ,has to be horse of the year or close to ,if he wins in UK the Queene Anne his value would be anything you would think

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  • TiversTivers    7,236 posts
    And doesn't really matter if his sire is a dud, coz his Mum is a superstar

    jesteress likes this post.

  • SprintcarSprintcar    99 posts
    A sire who is leading the second season sires list by prizemoney and second on individual winners can hardly be called a dud!

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  • TiversTivers    7,236 posts
    Too true
  • jesteressjesteress    98 posts
    Tivers said:

    And doesn't really matter if his sire is a dud, coz his Mum is a superstar

    That's it, the dam line is on fire (Magnus very promising) and Casino Prince is well bred and ATH is a superstar racehorse, and Damien still doesn't get it...
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,071 posts
    Yes I don't get it. I have said all along, I don't get it.

    This from Breednet.

    Casino Prince 91 runners 28 winners 2 SW 41 wins (5 SW) 30.8% winners to runners Earnings $3,274,934

    30% ? Is that acceptable ?
  • senseisensei    100 posts
    All Too Hard retired.

    Peter Orton quoted as saying his book is nearly closed off for the upcoming season.

    Even allowing for marketing / exaggeration it is clear that this stallion is going to get every opportunity.

    Shrewd shareholders involved including Bob Peters who have been rewarded with 3 consecutive Group 1 wins since buying in.

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  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    Smart option
  • TiversTivers    7,236 posts
    Easy(er) to be shrewd / smart if you've got the readies........................

    SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    All Too Hard is fully booked for his first season.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,071 posts
    Sincerely hope they do better in the ring than today's results from the Casino Prince weanlings at the Gold Coast National sale. 

    11 offered

    1 passed in for $13,000 with a reserve of $25,000

    10 sold 1750, 4500, 1250, 30000, 5000, 7000, 10000, 6000, 2000, 1500 

    Gross 69,000 Ave 6,900 

    Service fee in 2011 $27,500

    What a disaster. 
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