All Too Hard Service Fee $66000Breeding

Pimlico

Legless said:

not the way I understand it.
If it was that way every lot that did not meet reserve would be listed as passed in at one bid under reserve. This is not the case.

My take on it is that vendors throw dummy bids and stop at one bid under the reserve. For some reason vendor bids are not declared at the MM auctions I have attended and they should be IMHO

But then again what would I know - to the Vendors I am just another sucker 8-}

You're actually both right. The horse's or vendor's representative usually stands behind the auctioneer, tells the spotter that stands right next to the auctioneer the horses reserve if any, who then scribbles it in the auctioneers catalogue. Ideally, they will have a 'live one' (a genuine bidder) that they can keep taking bids against (which much of the time the auctioneer pulls out if thin air). Often the catalogued horse will have a person in the ring connected to it bidding it up. Sometimes these ungenuine bids are being then better by the auctioneers running the horse up and the end result is the horse being passed in just 1 bid shy of the reserve when in actual fact there may not have even been a single genuine bid. Remember that the sales companies charge a pass-in commission too so it's in their interests to get the price up as much as possible. The process is quite comical at times to the trained eye that can spot the auctioneer plaing games. I know of 1 auctioneer who often adjusts his tie as a sign to the spotters that the reserve is yet to be reached. How they are able to get away with what essentially is illegal baffles me but it nevers seems to change. Just one of many areas within the sales process which is far from perfect!

Tivers

Firm or soft reserves legless.
That's the diff you're referring to.
Is only for the firm reserves.

DamienWyer

There was another All Too Hard to sell and it was the biggest price for one of the day at $510,000. I don;t think that info was there at the close of business when I checked earlier.

FreoHitman

I suspect this year the sales will be another bloodbath . Too many people at the high end of town eating out only 3 times a week instead of 6. I really believe breeders must really evaluate there stock and start thinking of making a profit in 2020. Bob Peters must be licking his lips

Dale

Legless said:

not the way I understand it.
If it was that way every lot that did not meet reserve would be listed as passed in at one bid under reserve. This is not the case.

My take on it is that vendors throw dummy bids and stop at one bid under the reserve. For some reason vendor bids are not declared at the MM auctions I have attended and they should be IMHO

But then again what would I know - to the Vendors I am just another sucker 8-}

Tivers is right. Vendors don't "Throw" dummy bids. it just happens.Most of the time the vendor or person acting for the vendor is standing to the side or behind the auctioneer and bids go upto the reserve handed over on the card. If the crew at MM dont like you they stop a bit short, if they do they take it to the limit......easy really.

DamienWyer

Snitzel Colt just made $1.1M

savethegame

All too hard;; his winners are starting  to come mid-to backend three year olds...110 to race 48 winners.....11 winners since jan.21st.....

Theres one racing on Wednesday that's had a strange existence;;

SIR KALAHAD;; Sold as a weanling for 160k....then  2016 nzb premier yearling sale for 525k. to a

Mr. little kwok hing hung.......low and behold rocks up in a ready to run sale nine months later dashes up 200m in 10.57....sold to d .c. Harrison of melb. for 150k..... Mr little kwok hing hung didn't rock up with the johnny cash or it failed vet.....could there be any other reasons...

Tivers

Yesterday's 3yo Listed race - A Universal Ruler from an All Too Hard (from a Dream Ahead, from a Wanted).

Saturday's 2yo Listed race - A Universal Ruler from a Pierro.

(And you can guess which were from the better bred mares).

WTF would you spend $66,000...............(especially to race here) ?

DamienWyer

All Too Hard's service fee for the upcoming season has been released at $33,000. That's $10k cheaper than last year which was a decline of $10k on the previous season to that. 415 live foals of racing age for 4 stakes winners of four races total (2 x listed 2 x Gr2). They struggled to sell in the hottest selling environment seen in many a year in January on the Gold Coast.

He will be on the move within two years.

savethegame

john hawkes has 18, all too hards, 2-&3 yearolds on his books think , team hawkes   went  wide the latest sales....

paraletic

As in going "wide" u mean they didnt buy any?

savethegame

Just under the hawkes racing banner they brought  10 yearlings 2016 from the top four sales listed,.......Didn't see there name alongside any all too hards same sales 2018, without knowledge if there clients brought any for the stable/?...Been disappointed with them,as now late three yearolds

times running out  as Damien said new home beckons.

paraletic

Thanks for clarifying. The Hawkes not reinvesting is a sure sign they dont go that good

DamienWyer

DamienWyer said:

All Too Hard's service fee for the upcoming season has been released at $33,000. That's $10k cheaper than last year which was a decline of $10k on the previous season to that. 415 live foals of racing age for 4 stakes winners of four races total (2 x listed 2 x Gr2). They struggled to sell in the hottest selling environment seen in many a year in January on the Gold Coast.

He will be on the move within two years.

Open to offers I'm told. Not advertised but you can buy him for the right money.

jum

DamienWyer said:

DamienWyer said:

All Too Hard's service fee for the upcoming season has been released at $33,000. That's $10k cheaper than last year which was a decline of $10k on the previous season to that. 415 live foals of racing age for 4 stakes winners of four races total (2 x listed 2 x Gr2). They struggled to sell in the hottest selling environment seen in many a year in January on the Gold Coast.

He will be on the move within two years.

Open to offers I'm told. Not advertised but you can buy him for the right money

So what's he worth Damo IYO

DamienWyer

Well I think his service fee is unrealistic. Let's say in a WA market he is the likely replacement for Blackfriars at the top of the market. I think I would be pricing him at $15,000 and trading down for quality mares etc. Based on 20 outside mares for three seasons, that at say $10,000 average over those years gives me a value of $600,000. So no more than that as an offer. The syndicate purchasing him would have to have at least 50 mares to support him plus the 20 outside gives him 70 per season which may give him a chance of producing a reasonable number of winners here in WA with a sprinkling of black type. If they got 45 mares in foal each season, the syndicate should have around 20 suitable types to go to yearling sales which would further boost total earnings for him at Stud for anyone who bought into him as a Stallion to stand. The remainder could be leased to Trainers.

savethegame

One racing today strong resemblence to dad out of group one winning mare dorabella  hope she can help out the bull out ….       race 2  mum could handle wet tracks hastings dantini

savethegame

savethegame said:

One racing today strong resemblence to dad out of group one winning mare dorabella  hope she can help out the bull out ….       race 2  mum could handle wet tracks hastings dantini

dratini was on him in his first start  in july led by 3lgths  at 300m and fold like a cheap k-mart ran third..

today watch the replay race 4 waverly n.z stood them up 20 odd lengths  at 800m  trying to teach him to settle  lisa allpress had a job trying to do it, he got up in the last stride..

DamienWyer

DamienWyer said:

All Too Hard's service fee for the upcoming season has been released at $33,000. That's $10k cheaper than last year which was a decline of $10k on the previous season to that. 415 live foals of racing age for 4 stakes winners of four races total (2 x listed 2 x Gr2). They struggled to sell in the hottest selling environment seen in many a year in January on the Gold Coast.

He will be on the move within two years.

2019 Service fee now $27,500 incl GST.

savethegame

Wonders never cease A.T.H. early season two winner today Hard Landing,think the mother carried the aces here, former group 1 winning mare snitzerland who won the 2014 lighting.

Now his winners are coming as four, and five year-olds 41 individual winners since aug 1. still can't land the group 1. winner as yet, thought alligator blood was home in the Caulfield guineas ran 2nd.

DamienWyer

savethegame said:

Wonders never cease A.T.H. early season two winner today Hard Landing,think the mother carried the aces here, former group 1 winning mare snitzerland who won the 2014 lighting.

Now his winners are coming as four, and five year-olds 41 individual winners since aug 1. still can't land the group 1. winner as yet, thought alligator blood was home in the Caulfield guineas ran 2nd.

Snitzerland was a top line mare with Danehill via Redoute's Choice in her sire line. This was then replicated by mating her to All Too Hard, a Danehill via Flying Spur. This is the one mating above all that I would have stayed away from, Danehill over Danehill. It was just compounded by the Flying Spur/Casino Prince line that has proven to be disappointing.

She has subsequently been served by I Am Invincible for the following two seasons. I'm sure the Breeders would hope for something more from those mating's, although Danzig looms large in that line as well.

jesteress

upto 2018 has 895 mares returned...

I calculate a conservative $45 million in service fees earned....

Lucky didn't sell for 200k

DamienWyer

jesteress said:

upto 2018 has 895 mares returned...

I calculate a conservative $45 million in service fees earned....

Lucky didn't sell for 200k

please don't be naive enough to think that all serves are at full tote................ what about Stud owned and syndicate owned ? Yes he has made a lot of money for his owners but really, would you want one for the sort of money they were sold for ?

But if you want to talk numbers...........

All Too Hard class of 2013 542 live foals (now 2yo +) for 10 stakes winners of 11 stakes races zero Gr1 entered stud at $66,000 now $27,500

Pierro class of 2013 482 live foals for 17 stakes winners of 32 stakes races including 5 Gr1 entered stud at $77,000 now $88,000

So both given plenty of opportunities, but if you were smart and took  the early advice, one has surpassed the other by the length of the straight

Tivers

And a bit of the bend

savethegame

Peters was a shareholder in pierro-----before he aimed up for his first shot. 2018 breednet foal of the year was pierro----delicacy,  nothing bob doesn't win.

Nevershowsurprise

DamienWyer said:

Well I think his service fee is unrealistic. Let's say in a WA market he is the likely replacement for Blackfriars at the top of the market. I think I would be pricing him at $15,000 and trading down for quality mares etc. Based on 20 outside mares for three seasons, that at say $10,000 average over those years gives me a value of $600,000. So no more than that as an offer. The syndicate purchasing him would have to have at least 50 mares to support him plus the 20 outside gives him 70 per season which may give him a chance of producing a reasonable number of winners here in WA with a sprinkling of black type. If they got 45 mares in foal each season, the syndicate should have around 20 suitable types to go to yearling sales which would further boost total earnings for him at Stud for anyone who bought into him as a Stallion to stand. The remainder could be leased to Trainers.

$600k hmmmm

jesteress

DamienWyer said:

jesteress said:

upto 2018 has 895 mares returned...

I calculate a conservative $45 million in service fees earned....

Lucky didn't sell for 200k

please don't be naive enough to think that all serves are at full tote................ what about Stud owned and syndicate owned ? Yes he has made a lot of money for his owners but really, would you want one for the sort of money they were sold for ?

But if you want to talk numbers...........

All Too Hard class of 2013 542 live foals (now 2yo +) for 10 stakes winners of 11 stakes races zero Gr1 entered stud at $66,000 now $27,500

Pierro class of 2013 482 live foals for 17 stakes winners of 32 stakes races including 5 Gr1 entered stud at $77,000 now $88,000

So both given plenty of opportunities, but if you were smart and took  the early advice, one has surpassed the other by the length of the straight

who said anything about comparing him with Pierro??

I was comparing your valuation with the possible service fee returns...

btw i have never paid full tote lol

savethegame

Does the  Alligator stem the flow of blood for his old man, John Hawkes had twenty all too hards in work at one stage,,Now his first group one, winning son---,Does he rebound, in breeding barn,on the back of the Alligator, or is it to late?-------- haven't seen a gelding this popular for years.

DamienWyer

It's good for those connections who have bred to All Too Hard, that he has finally got a Gr 1 winner. He has had 11 stakes winners for 16 individual stakes races won. It's taken 542 eligible live foals to get there, I don't know how that compares to other Stallions but it has been a long wait considering the opportunities afforded this horse.

He sold well in Melbourne over the last two days. 11 were accepted into the sale, one was withdrawn, with 8 being offered in book 1. Of those one was passed in and the remainder sold @50k, 50k, 125k, 130k, 150k, 200k and 240k. That's very good for the Sire.

On the Gold Coast where it's fair to say Magic Millions accept a more precocious or forward type for their sale, just 6 were accepted, one being withdrawn and the remaining five all selling. They made 45k, 50k, 75, 200k and 300k. Overall that's poor for the Sire as these yearlings were off a $44,000 service fee.

I think you have to be very lucky if you're breeding commercially to him, quite frankly I don't think you can.

Strictly for comparison purposes, Mosayter has had 283 live foals eligible and has also produced a Gr 1 winner but he did it with Mr Moet with just 135 live eligible foals on the ground. But he only got the one stakes winner and of course just the one at the highest level.

When Snitzel got his first Gr 1 winner in 2012 with Sizzling, he had 306 live eligible foals on the ground when it happened. He was the first of many with Snitzel now having sired 12 individual Gr 1 winners of 18 Gr races in total.

This information is provided purely for discussion.

DamienWyer

Alligator Blood has had his second sample confirmed positive so $1.1M comes off his earnings after winning the MM 3YO. Stewards will hold an inquiry shortly