Lindsay Harper

Offthebit · January 2014

I would be interested to here what the trotting people on here think about L B Harper being allowed back into the game or not. This man has a few skeletons in the closet, no doubt about that, but I would suggest that half of the industry have a few skeletons in the closet so should we warn all of them off too? Of course not!! Surely when you are given a sentence (except life) in any industry, you are entitled to believe that when you finish that sentence you have paid your dues.

I'm not sure about the legalities of it all but I think harness racing in WA needs a major shake up. With the halls dominating every Friday night and bond dominating pinjarra Mondays it's starting to get a little bit boring. With the likes of Grant Williams and Justin Warwick switching codes in the last few years it has left a hole in the trots when it comes to depth.

The return of a champion driver like Lindsay would make these meetings a lot more competitive. I keep hearing that rwwa is very turnover driven. It's all about getting turnover up. If they let Lindsay back in the game turnover would go up straight away. Plus the fact that they could put strict conditions on his return thus giving the punter confidence that he wouldn't put a foot wrong because he would be suspended again if he did. There have been plenty of people with much more convictions let back into the game and they are still competing today.

For god sake rwwa let the man drive again and spice up a sport that is becoming boring at a rapid rate.

JayJay · January 2014

I cannot and will not comment on the original case details. However, a penalty of 5 years was imposed. After a breach in the USA, it was sort of start all over again, and now his time is up. As a result, he gets warned off for life. If the original offense invoked a lifetime time ban, then why wasn't it imposed there and then. And with no further charges or civil or criminal proceedings, why suddenly throw a lifetime warning off after he has served his time. It just totally lacks logic. Don't allow him back on the basis of spicing up local harness racing or providing some opposition for the Halls or the Bonds or because he was an outstandingly good reinsman - allow him back to let justice prevail. All this cloaks and daggers "we'll release our reasons in a months time" stuff from RWWA makes them appear a law unto themselves. Yes I think Lindsay Harper should be back in business - it's time.

Piston_Broke · January 2014

alot worse people than L B around in the game. There were none better when he was around, done his time let him start afresh

Rex · January 2014

If they were going to warn him off he should have been told well before this. If he did the crime which has never legally been proven by the police, he has done the time. If he got 10 years jail would they then turn around and say well now we impose life, I don't think so. Being RWWA he can't even appeal to the ombudsman as RWWA is exempt from him. I know him personally and have no time for him but I hope he takes them to the high court and make them accountable.

H-BOMBER · January 2014

Many moons ago I would follow the trots while at uni and when Friday night live was showing, he was my favorite driver. Why did he get banned? Must have been bad.

Gilgamesh · January 2014

He faced criminal charges that were never proceeded with so in esence nothing.

thefalcon · January 2014

come on tom percy, do a pro-bono.... L-)

Offthebit · January 2014

Anyone notice the irony of the pacing cup last week? In the week that Lindsay Harper was warned off mainly due to "integrity" as rwwa put it, Clinton Hall, fresh from a 5 year EPO ban, wins wa harness racings premier race.

Nice one RWWA L-)

Gilgamesh · January 2014

Offthebit said:
Anyone notice the irony of the pacing cup last week? In the week that Lindsay Harper was warned off mainly due to "integrity" as rwwa put it, Clinton Hall, fresh from a 5 year EPO ban, wins wa harness racings premier race.

Nice one RWWA L-)

It's not lost on me mate, maybe if his last name was Hall it wouldn't be a problem!!

Harper is clearly no Angel but the straw that broke the camels back in this case is something he never was even charged with let alone proven guilty.

everready · January 2014

don't have to relicnce him but served his time should be at least able to wander up to the bar @ GP and have a drink!i every one I know that have lost there motor drivers lic in a court of law regains it after they serve there time that the judge determines !!!!! :-? :-?

Fastmoney · January 2014

http://www.rwwa.com.au/home/l-harper-iac-reasons-for-determination-18901.html

JayJay · January 2014

What a complete load of codswallop. Having read and reread the determination, there is not a grain of doubt in my mind that this is a very wrong decision and contrary to everything about natural justice and, at a basic level, a "fair go". Having served 9 years disqualification for a matter in which criminal charges were never proceeded with, this case has all the hallmarks of a witch hunt IMHO.

thefalcon · January 2014

come on tom percy, do a pro bono.....

Fastmoney · January 2014

Percy was there for the hearing.

Didn`t help much.

Markovina · January 2014

It seems a bit harsh- none of them are lily white

The interesting thing is - when Clinton Hall got sprung for the EPO - (the stewards got his phone records) the 1st person he rang was David Harding ( leading SA reinsman) - and the 1st person Harding rang was that Weightman chap in Victoria - who was outed over the blue magic fiasco . The SA harness racing stewards actually inquired into that connection - but it went no where

SuperSnoop · January 2014

if that track record doesnt constitute someone you dont want in the industry then what does?

are these the type of people you want in your trotting game? hes had plenty of chances and cant stay clean.

on another note, that other disgraceful cheat bobby el issa is back riding again after having his penalty reduced for pulling up horses while his mate steve fletcher laid them on betfair. not a bloke that can ever be trusted and should not be allowed to ride again.

I cant understand why people want proven cheats to remain in the industry?

Offthebit · January 2014

Markovina said:
It seems a bit harsh- none of them are lily white

The interesting thing is - when Clinton Hall got sprung for the EPO - (the stewards got his phone records) the 1st person he rang was David Harding ( leading SA reinsman) - and the 1st person Harding rang was that Weightman chap in Victoria - who was outed over the blue magic fiasco . The SA harness racing stewards actually inquired into that connection - but it went no where

Well said markovina. The reason the Harding inquiry was swept under the carpet was because the talent pool over there is so thin they knew they couldn't afford to lose there leading driver. If it was a nobody who was inbetween weightman and hall he would have got 5 years.

Gilgamesh · January 2014

Harper had a clean record since 1993, then he is charged with behaviour which is detrimental to the industry for an incident that he was never charged with, it was never proven that he had anything to do with but was purely hearsay. How can that warrant him being so detrimental to the industry that he can't even be allowed on track to watch his sons? What's he going to do?

It mentions in the statement that Harper has a profile and would not slip back into harness racing unnoticed, that is a fantastic thing! We keep using the Clint Hall example but he certainly didn't slip back into harness racing un noticed! Google Clint Hall and RWWA actual have an article promoting his return after a 6 year "Absence". I'm sick of hearing his "Absence" or "Break" being described in this manor. He was disqualified for importing synthetic EPO, he wasn't having a break!

Now Clint has done the crime and done the time and been allowed back as it should be. It could well be argued that as the result of his charges he is actually more of a risk to the industry than Harper. I don't know Clint at all and wish him well, we all make mistakes and I know it would be terrible to have done something silly that could result in the loss of your livelihood. I feel a bit like I've done some Clint bashing on here which I don't wish to do but he is the most recent example that we can compere Harper to which in my opinion shows he is for some reason not getting a fair deal and precedence has been set here which isn't being adhered to.

bookielover · January 2014

I asked the question about Harper in a thread I started on here titled, "does anyone know". It appears a month later that no one knows.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Harper was to challenge this decision in a real of court of law, he would win.

Once a murderer or child rapist has completed their sentence, they are released back into society. I am sure that the authorities and the general public have fears that these criminals may re-offend. BUT they have done the crime and done the time, and once they have done the time, are not locked up again because the authorities feel that their release may be a danger to society.

I don't know what Harper did or is alleged to have done, but as far as I do know, he didn't rape anyone or murder anyone.If he is alleged to have pulled one or twenty up, then he isn't an orphan with that, has been punished and served his time.

Bobby ElIissa may pull one up in the future, but he is back riding because he completed his sentence. Should Damien Oliver not be allowed to ride in case he backs a horse other than the one he is riding?

There are 100's of examples of jockeys, trainers, punters and bookies who have had a hand in skulduggery, been suspended, served their time, and returned to the track. Anyone remember Fine Cotton, the Waterhouses and other participants.

As Falcon said, I hope he can get a lawyer to represent him pro bono.

I am heartily sick and tired of any authority whether they be a racing authority or not, asserting their authority in the way that RWWA have done. If they can actually show that Harper is somehow involved in some illegal activity, then by all means warn him off for life.

Failing that, however, any warning off of Harper, is, in my opinion, a total denial of natural justice, and a gross misuse of powers, that brings nothing but shame and embarrassment to RWWA.

TheDiva · January 2014

Im not sure I understand fully Bookie?, He was represented by Tom Percy at the Appeal? So he did have legal representation.

Also, it wasnt RWWA that upheld the warning off, but the Appeals Board, who are completely independent?

If RWWA were out of line, would the Appeals Board not have found such?

Fastmoney · January 2014

The Diva said:
Im not sure I understand fully Bookie?, He was represented by Tom Percy at the Appeal?

Perhaps different representation would have helped.

The Diva said:

Also, it wasnt RWWA that upheld the warning off, but the Appeals Board, who are completely independent?

I like the use of the question mark.

Aquanita · January 2014

Based on the info on the RWWA website this decision has been handed down by the Integrity Assurance Committee of RWWA and has not yet been tested at appeal.

TheDiva · January 2014

Fastmoney said:

The Diva said:
Im not sure I understand fully Bookie?, He was represented by Tom Percy at the Appeal?
Perhaps different representation would have helped.

The Diva said:

Also, it wasnt RWWA that upheld the warning off, but the Appeals Board, who are completely independent?

I like the use of the question mark.

definitely a question mark!

Carlosa · January 2014

bookielover said:

I am heartily sick and tired of any authority whether they be a racing authority or not, asserting their authority in the way that RWWA have done. If they can actually show that Harper is somehow involved in some illegal activity, then by all means warn him off for life.

Kinf of like the AFL with Essendon hey BL?

bookielover · January 2014

Hi DIVA,

IAC was established by, and unless I'm wrong, is part of, RWWA. They are supposed to act totally independently of RWWA, however when you read the section titled "Warning off Power", nowhere do the IAC rate a mention. It's all about the powers of RWWA, which makes me wonder how truly independent, IAC are, and the reason that I continually refer to RWWA.

Yes, Diva, he had legal representation at the appeal, but I'm talking about him taking RWWA and the IAC to the Supreme Court in order to challenge their decision for the reasons that I gave in my post.

If the Supreme Court was to uphold the decision, I would still find it incredulous, but at least the decision would have been upheld by a totally independent authority.

bookielover · January 2014

You're a very naughty boy Carlossa >:) >:) ;) :D

Uttsy · January 2016

Incredible that stakeholders want people capable of this back in their industry.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Harness-trainer-s-rein-of-deceit-exposed-69882

He wasn't charged as the victim was scared of reprisals. Im thankful RWWA has the power to do these things outside of the law. I personally believe they should be given more power in order to clean the industry up further.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/20660862/trotting-king-left-with-nothing/

Yet some people still want him back because of the lack of driving talent and because of some far fetched notion of justice. People like this should be banned for life.

People have incredibly short memories.

RIO · January 2016

If he had been banned for life this wouldn't be an issue. But RWWA didn't think that was justified. So he does his time and he should be allowed back in. They can't double dip and say Yes youve done your time but we don't like you so we're keeping you out!!!!

Not fair

Rex · January 2016

Uttsy said:
Incredible that stakeholders want people capable of this back in their industry.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Harness-trainer-s-rein-of-deceit-exposed-69882

He wasn't charged as the victim was scared of reprisals. Im thankful RWWA has the power to do these things outside of the law. I personally believe they should be given more power in order to clean the industry up further.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/20660862/trotting-king-left-with-nothing/

Yet some people still want him back because of the lack of driving talent and because of some far fetched notion of justice. People like this should be banned for life.

People have incredibly short memories.

What charges was he convicted of? The police saw no charges applicable yet the racing authorities still gave him time.

They listened to evidence from a convicted druggie over a person the police said that there was no case to answer.

I are no fan of Lindsay Harpers for other reasons but lets be fair for once and look at the facts of the case and if you have done your time you should be allowed back to do your trade, but if they aren't going to let you back they should have advised him when they saw cause and not let it drag on until the time you were given is served.

If the want to give life do it when they are sentenced.

He is not the only one this is happening to.

jum · January 2016

They should let him back in to try and take on the halls.

Offthebit · May 2018

Cant believe its over 4 years since i posted this thread.

What a delight it is to see LB Harper back driving at the trials.

Not surprisingly he wins on a horse called "The Wizard"

Cant wait to see him back driving at GP on a friday night, he will add some much needed depth to the driving ranks.

G'day Punter!

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