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Do Breeders in WA have a limited shelf life ?

Breeding

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  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    wynyard hall didn't do too bad...and produced okay too
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Not in the league of the big names - and volume of - over East get though, I gather is the point.
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    yes diva..incest, the game the whole family can play..... :>
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,246 posts
    George Pell sees norhing.....   :-B
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    you mean "says and does nothing".... X(
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    edited June 2015
    www.ozrace.com.au/blackwood-another-potential-stakes-winner-for-blackfriars/

    Unsure of where this would go....  Definitely a stand out winner by Blackfriars.....

    But the thing that keeps standing out to me is the 'not offered' appearing on most of the local sires winners....(last week there was NOT one winner that was sold).  

    I know there's two sides to everything, and that if they think they're not going to get the money they want at the sales then why not hang onto them .  But unless they offer the good ones to the sales then how do you grow the local industry?  More westspeed?

    Unfortunately, I can see the point Damien put up on this a while back.  Make the bonuses available to only horses sold at sales ( I know the dodgy sales will come back) otherwise we'll end up with no new owners coming in because all they can buy are the breeders rejects?
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    Gary H said:

    www.ozrace.com.au/blackwood-another-potential-stakes-winner-for-blackfriars/



    Unsure of where this would go....  Definitely a stand out winner by Blackfriars.....



    But the thing that keeps standing out to me is the 'not offered' appearing on most of the local sires winners....(last week there was NOT one winner that was sold).  



    I know there's two sides to everything, and that if they think they're not going to get the money they want at the sales then why not hang onto them .  But unless they offer the good ones to the sales then how do you grow the local industry?  More westspeed?



    Unfortunately, I can see the point Damien put up on this a while back.  Make the bonuses available to only horses sold at sales ( I know the dodgy sales will come back) otherwise we'll end up with no new owners coming in because all they can buy are the breeders rejects?

    ^^^^^^"Make the bonuses available to only horses sold at sales ( I know the dodgy sales will come back) otherwise we'll end up with no new owners coming in because all they can buy are the breeders rejects?"

    There are so many studs racing there own as you say...And just imagine how much excitement getting a good one for 40k may have meant to someone - or some group - of new owners.

    Short turn gain for long term pain........catch cry of our breeding industry's attempts to keep up with breeding trends since the EI scare a few years back..

    GaryH likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited June 2015
    I wouldn't think ND sells many fillies.
    Retains most for future broodmares.


    What I'm hearing above otherwise is a lot of whinging essentially that buyers can't beat breeder owners.
    Well if that's the case, can't beat them, join them.

    We for one openly invite partners to come in on individual matings for the season (especially for ones we send east) - so you don't need to go balls in and buy mares etc.
    Just pay your share of the costs - get your share of the foal (incl Breeders WestSpeed).
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts

    A lot of breeders are looking at alternatives now.....but primarily due to short term gains of the past coming back to bite them on the bum, with owners deserting them in droves...

    The above is an example of someone thinking on their feet and trying to give owners/breeders what they want...With the faltering local breeding industry I view that will be the way forward. Either work with owners to best match up their broodmares to any stallion...and then manage that for them. or bring them into your broad mare right at the start.

    Good thinking 99, I hope it works for you.

  • CarlosaCarlosa    1,287 posts
    So do I!

    Winsumlosesum likes this post.

  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    We for one openly invite partners to come in on individual matings for the season (especially for ones we send east) - so you don't need to go balls in and buy mares etc.
    Just pay your share of the costs - get your share of the foal (incl Breeders WestSpeed).
      Look I agree that the breeder/racing stable is going to have a better chance at getting a good horse, as they don't have to worry about the commercial side.  So good on you for 'getting into it'.  That's your risk/reward.

      But you can't play both sides and say we need to keep the WA breeding industry strong for better racing, then support the breeders so much that they DO NOT HAVE TO SELL horses to make a profit.  Its so easy to keep the good ones and pick up the bonus's that the only ones that go to the sale 'can't outrun the farm ute'. 

      No wonder NO ONE IS BUYING WA horses from the sales.  At least the eastern states horses have been sold at the sales (by the looks on the post on the OZracing page anyway).  

      I wonder if the guys can do similar for the Midweek and provincial winners?  I'm thinking a bit of a difference in that stat....
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    edited June 2015


    There are so many studs racing there own as you say...And just imagine how much excitement getting a good one for 40k may have meant to someone - or some group - of new owners.

    Short turn gain for long term pain........catch cry of our breeding industry's attempts to keep up with breeding trends since the EI scare a few years back..



    Spot on RIO

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,660 posts
    Perth Winter Yearling and Thoroughbred Sale book has just been released.

    Anyone seen it yet ?
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    Perth Winter Yearling and Thoroughbred Sale book has just been released.

    Anyone seen it yet ?
    As in 'found a copy', or do you want comments on whats offered?  Really not that hard to find, but thought I'd better put up the link just in case?

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited June 2015
    Gary H said:

    Look I agree that the breeder/racing stable is going to have a better chance at getting a good horse, as they don't have to worry about the commercial side.  So good on you for 'getting into it'.  That's your risk/reward.

      But you can't play both sides and say we need to keep the WA breeding industry strong for better racing, then support the breeders so much that they DO NOT HAVE TO SELL horses to make a profit.  Its so easy to keep the good ones and pick up the bonus's that the only ones that go to the sale 'can't outrun the farm ute'. 

      No wonder NO ONE IS BUYING WA horses from the sales.  At least the eastern states horses have been sold at the sales (by the looks on the post on the OZracing page anyway).  

      I wonder if the guys can do similar for the Midweek and provincial winners?  I'm thinking a bit of a difference in that stat....
    Last horse we bothered to put through the sales was the best one in our crop for that year - Rebel King.
    Couldn't get a bid on him.

    Actually - put two through that sale, sold the other. Win and place from two starts to date for that one.

    Hardly "throw out the trash".
  • GaryHGaryH    1,012 posts
    Tivers said:

    Gary H said:

    Look I agree that the breeder/racing stable is going to have a better chance at getting a good horse, as they don't have to worry about the commercial side.  So good on you for 'getting into it'.  That's your risk/reward.

      But you can't play both sides and say we need to keep the WA breeding industry strong for better racing, then support the breeders so much that they DO NOT HAVE TO SELL horses to make a profit.  Its so easy to keep the good ones and pick up the bonus's that the only ones that go to the sale 'can't outrun the farm ute'. 

      No wonder NO ONE IS BUYING WA horses from the sales.  At least the eastern states horses have been sold at the sales (by the looks on the post on the OZracing page anyway).  

      I wonder if the guys can do similar for the Midweek and provincial winners?  I'm thinking a bit of a difference in that stat....
    Last horse we bothered to put through the sales was the best one in our crop for that year - Rebel King.
    Couldn't get a bid on him.

    Actually - put two through that sale, sold the other. Win and place from two starts to date for that one.

    Hardly "throw out the trash".
    I didn't include you guys in the commercial breeding sector.  As I said, good on you for going out and breeding good horses.

      It would have been better to be able to go out and buy them......but i'm guessing you got sick of paying good money for crap.....  Or was that just mine.. ;)
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited June 2015
    Guess we have to agree there.
    No doubt we get better results from home bred / raised than bought.
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited June 2015
    Have heard lots of numbers thrown around about winning Sat Horses - WA Sales v ES Sales v Homebred/Not offered.

    Started keeping stats only 3 weeks ago so numbers mean nothing yet.

    so far after 24 Races from 23/05/15

    WA Sales - 6
    ES Sales - 6
    Homebred/Not Offered -12
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Yeah, and one (at least) of the one's you've got as a "WA Sale" that I know of first hand was a buy back, so make that 5,6,13
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited June 2015
    That's one of a few problems I face and is going to be one of the issues as far as accuracy is concerned. Have been looking at it for quite a while however only recently started keeping data

    Numbers will be indicative only
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Be interesting to see the split WA v East for the homebred winners too
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    Legless said:

    Have heard lots of numbers thrown around about winning Sat Horses - WA Sales v ES Sales v Homebred/Not offered.

    Started keeping stats only 3 weeks ago so numbers mean nothing yet.

    so far after 24 Races from 23/05/15

    WA Sales - 6
    ES Sales - 6
    Homebred/Not Offered -12

    Need the number of starters for each category for it to be relevant.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Yes and no.
    Is about who's getting the winnings (which is one horse per race).
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    Am keeping numbers just for my interest. Have heard all sorts of numbers bandied around about where Saturday winners come from. The data you suggest FM is available however has zero relevance to me, its purely where Sat winners are sourced from

  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    Tivers said:

    Yes and no.

    Is about who's getting the winnings (which is one horse per race).
    If there is a field of ES and Homebreds it doesn`t say anything about WA sales.

    RIO likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    31st May was a good one for the locals / home breds @Legless


    7 of 8 were WA sires, and not a single one sold at sale.
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    At a quick glance, race 2 and 3 on Saturday, had 1 runner that was bought at the WA sale.
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    I noticed that and then last weekend not so good for the locals. Will take a while for a pattern to emerge
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    Different set of stats FM - thats more getting into what % of runners are WA bred/bought per sat race.

    Would also throw up some interesting data probably, will have a look this weekend and see how much effort is required to capture it.

    Problem I see if its listed as not being offered and the dam is not familiar to me it will be a fairly time consuming task to categorise it correctly
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Legless said:

    Have heard lots of numbers thrown around about winning Sat Horses - WA Sales v ES Sales v Homebred/Not offered.

    Started keeping stats only 3 weeks ago so numbers mean nothing yet.

    so far after 24 Races from 23/05/15

    WA Sales - 6
    ES Sales - 6
    Homebred/Not Offered -12

    Sure those are correct ?
    I get :

    WA Sales - 1
    ES Sales - 4
    WA Home - 12
    ES Home - 7
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