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Magic Millions 2016

Breeding

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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    edited February 2016

  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    I was there yesterday and even though the stats may say that the median price was down, i felt the prices were high for those potential Saturday horses.
    So RWWA via the horrendously poorly disguised breeders bonus' (Westspeed) have ensured that those horses that may have gone for 20-25k in the past now go for a lot closer to a Saturday win with Westspeed bonus.
    In my opinion there were many horse that went for 40-60k, that without the Westspeed bonuses would have been cheaper. And yes i noticed it as that is our target buying area and everything that we had tagged went outside our price range!!

    I've never been a fan of Westspeed. I see it as taking from the poor and giving to the rich, and rarely pay up for it. And never will with my own bred. To me it signifies exactly what is wrong with the industry in WA..Rewarding mediocre breeders and then promoting it as the dream to all the dreamers!!!

    Agree that MM is absolutely taking the **** out of the WA market. About time they tried a bit harder...Sorry make that try....And running their races in early Feb!!!!!!
    ;))
  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited February 2016

    45k to the full to the champion filly in Aus last year sold to Roy Rogers I don't care if it had 2 broken legs you would have be to be on meth surly

    Paid overs IMHO

    Now watch it come out and clean sweep all the 3yr old fruit in a couple of years!! :(|)
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    RIO old mate...... If you can't beat them, join them.
    Sign up every horse you can, or give it away.
    I implore you......
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,687 posts
    Sale topping yearling will be sold today by all accounts. Ron Sayers has a Street Cry that whilst not the best specimen, will however make more than $135,000 you would think.

    Rio I think the sale is tailor made for a buyer. They don't get much cheaper than yesterday.
  • PimlicoPimlico    39 posts

    Sale topping yearling will be sold today by all accounts. Ron Sayers has a Street Cry that whilst not the best specimen, will however make more than $135,000 you would think.

    Rio I think the sale is tailor made for a buyer. They don't get much cheaper than yesterday.

    Absolutely a buyers market. Breeze-up consignors should be targeting this sale every year, huge profits to be made!
    I think anyone who knows anything about how the Perth sale operates each year will be taking the Street Cry topping the sale with a bucket of salt.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,687 posts
    Putting price aside though, you need to look past a lot of unchecked boxes on the must have list if you want to buy at this sale. All five of the sale best sellers yesterday were on my list, but couldn't get past crucial requirements. Today I intend to bid on a yearling with two seperate conformation issues, so it's not a case of trying to find perfection.
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts

    How many of the under $50k horses would you be confident of being a walk up winner on a Saturday??? Cos if they aren't it is along road to get your money back via midweek and country racing.

    I think the ones over that mark are great value...but that's not where I play ball.

    I certainly wont - and this is with my own horses, not ones I syndicate out - be signing up for the Westspeed or MM fees, so that I can make a donation to the owners or breeders of the top 5% of horses in the state. I'll continue with my own (by some ill conceived) ideas that until I have a horse that I am confident that it is a Saturday winner - not  a potential Saturday winner - it is a waste of money for little chance of success. My own breds I will probably sign up for the breeders bonus, but not the owners bonus.. RWWA are hell bent of support the breeders wit this current system...Funnily enough whilst putting a lot of energy into Owners Own.

    Tivers, it'd be like getting a really nice big yearling that the trainer tells you it will be a late bloomer. May even be a 4yr old before it hits its straps, and then goes and pays up for MM and Westspeed, when by their own admission..it wont be on the track to get any of the benefits???? And that is exactly how RWWA want it to be and have successfully brainwashed everyone into thinking the only way you can make money is to be "in" the system. Just not for me on horses with Potential Saturday winning prospects.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Can't have been nominated for MM... Didn't go thru sale.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    And all he has to do is win one race, and will get (guaranteed) at least three times the WestSpeed nom back.

    I don't follow your logic at all.
    Being WestSpeed nominated is crucial.
    The only reason you wouldn't nominate is if you think the horse isn't capable of winning a race, in which case - why are you feeding it ?

    Chelsea likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    P.s. Come grab me for a beer and we'll discuss ;)
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    Tivers said:

    P.s. Come grab me for a beer and we'll discuss ;)

    haha..not down today mate..I do know the theory....but I believe it is fundamentally poorly structured.. Anything I buy/grow/own to syndicate has it - as I don't want to inflict my unusual theories on others. But its not for me.

    Lets hope it is another good day today.. Does anyone know - or has got - the theory on the 2 De Grey horses being passed in. Both got good bids - 22 an 23 I think - but were passed in.. Stunned me knocking back that money in WA.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Bummer.
    Was actually looking forward to a beer / chat today,
    After you blew me off all yesterday... ;)
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts

    Sale topping yearling will be sold today by all accounts. Ron Sayers has a Street Cry that whilst not the best specimen, will however make more than $135,000 you would think.


    $300k Gary Moore racing
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts

    hahaha..was busy yesterday and there was one moment I was sitting down taking a breather and I saw you wondering around aimlessly and you had a good looking woman alongside you..

    Initial thought was go and have a chat.....then nah don't want to ruin his chances with the good looking woman....then after much internal laughter........she actually looked like she was wondering around rather lost and asking for directions, so I should have!!!!!

    The Railways in 2017 with our nice 4 year old, if not before.

     

    Tivers, lame likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Was that the Ana Ivanovic clone ?
  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts

  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    Tivers said:

    Was that the Ana Ivanovic clone ?

    yes....very eye catching
  • PimlicoPimlico    39 posts
    MM's press release about the sale being a "fantastic result" is laughable and just adds further insult to hard working and loyal supporters of the sale who have once again taken a bath. W.A. sellers need to wake up & realise they are not being taken seriously by MM do something about it.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Out of interest - what would you have magic millions do differently ?

    jum likes this post.

  • PimlicoPimlico    39 posts
    The problem is the lack of outside buyers. Inglis are giving MM an absolute hiding in terms of attracting an international & interstate buying bench. I've spoken to several Victorian trainers & agents that don't even consider going to Perth let alone being enticed by MM to do so. If it means providing a subsidy to get a sold horse to the east then do it. They simply are not earning their 8.5% sales commission atm.

    RIO likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,687 posts
    I don't think that is a fair assessment of the sale following Day 2. Day 1 was a disaster but the final day was outstanding for the money that some yearlings brought.

    If you really want to navel gaze, I think WA Breeders need to have a look in their own backyards. Some of the stock on offer was presented incredibly well, others not so. Some were bred well others not so. But the biggest factor for me was the depth of some of the pages on offer, or lack of it. Some of these mares shouldn't have stock seen at a commercial sale if people were fair dinkum. The selling numbers would have been more of a bloodbath had Magic Millions allowed more entries of more inferior quality stock. So in other words, WA Breeders need to do something about the quality of their herd of broodmares.

    The facilities however for a major regional sale are abysmal. You speak of an International buying bench, well I wouldn't want them to see what Belmont has become.  The only thing missing from there was tumbleweeds. The viewing areas are beyond description, and the lack of food and drinks on inspection days was breathtaking.

    If Magic Millions should be held accountable for anything in WA, it is the continued lack of enthusiasm for a facility worthy of an Industry in need. They should simply buy some land and build a complex. Belmont is a bees dick away from never being completed. I don't know how many years I have been saying this, but it is never going to happen.

     
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Got to agree with Damo sorry.
    Across the book the pedigrees are (in the main) satisfactory, but most of the horses are really lacking on type.
    The nice types got good $, the ordinary ones got less $.
    Can't force buyers to pay big money for horses that aren't worth it.
    And the good ones aren't (realistically) going to get more than the $120k (- $135k) they topped out at, because there's nothing left in it for the buyer.
    By the time you buy it, pay all the fees, break it in, feed it, train it, race it - you've got to make back $200k just to break even - which is effectively (after deductions, slings etc) 4 Saturday wins (with WestSpeed).
    E/s buyers aren't going to come and pay $200k for those $120k horses because they then in turn don't get their BOBS, VBios (whatever it's called) etc bonuses when they take them home.
    Can buy the same quality horses over there, and be eligible for their own bonuses.

  • PimlicoPimlico    39 posts
    Absolutely agree with you Damien regarding the archaic facilities. There is absolutely no consistency with parading areas or surfaces to parade on for that matter. This is unfair to both consignors & potential buyers. There will always be those consignors that each year will present their horses in a substandard fashion, owever I think by & large the sale's quality has steadily improved. Those that have foals at foot by eastern states sires should look seriously at selling them next year at Melb. Premier, Sydney Classic or even Gold Coast if they get in.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Not to mention all the sales over east, with thousands of yearlings.
    Why would someone from east look here to fight over about 60 BOBS eligible horses, or 20 Super VOBIS eligible horses, then with the risks and costs of transporting them back east (we've lost two in the past few months in transport).
    Best thing the local breeders can do is continue to (I say continue because it has improved, to their credit) improve their stock.
    With the local bonuses on offer the locals are now paying more for the good ones (see convo above with RIO). That needs to be the goal surely ?
  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts

    I think the key to a successful sale is diversity of stock. Perth I feel is a little too insular with stallions. Logistically this is always going to be the case, I know that.

     I do often look at the Inglis catalogues and there is hundreds of stallions with stock where in Perth there is too many Vital Equine's, Dick Turpins, Alfred Nobels etc. Not knocking the sires, but those 3 sires had about 14 yearlings a piece in the sale which is over 10% of the whole catalogue. That's too many.

    Breeding to some of the cheaper stallions over east may well be a goer. It may not put extra money in the breeders pocket once you factor in transport and the like, but I think it will get the lots sold especially if the mare isn't world class.  

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    10, 27 & 8
    DT had the second highest representation of any stallion in the sale, yes. (Blackfriars 33).

    In saying that - Blackfriars had the 4th highest average price (of WA sires).
    (DT 10th)

    84 different sires in 349 lots.
  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    edited February 2016

    Sorry had a malfunction with the search criteria on the magic millions page!!! Not blaming the page, it could be the operator!!

    But still, the 3 sires listed with over 10% of the book.

    How many sires have stock in the Adelaide sale? I cant find that info.

    I do note that they day have about 100 more horses to sell than Perth.  

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    112 I count
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Not sure how you achieve that though, because if anything there's too many stallions here - so obviously if you reduce that number, means even less of a spread in the sale.
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