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More Sire Talk.

Breeding
CPLCPL    596 posts
What's hot what's not?
What sires are showing good stats for runners to winners or even from lack of oppertunity?
Have we got much standing up or even much to look forward to?
Damian you have your finger on the pulse what have you observed?

Comments

  • jumjum    1,595 posts

    CPL

    I have observed that the Dick Turpins have struggled at this sale. He is one that definitely needs some winners real soon. 

    CPL, paraletic likes this post.

  • CPLCPL    596 posts
    How is Rogano going?
  • paraleticparaletic    2,180 posts
    jum said:

    CPL

    I have observed that the Dick Turpins have struggled at this sale. He is one that definitely needs some winners real soon. 

    I didn't want to say anything as im not in the business of offending people who supported this sire of who have one on the ground by him but scrolling thru the results yesterday - it seems his stock are really on the nose.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Gingerbread Man - red hot

    Demerit - selling like it is the end of civilisation for some, then some are next to nothing

    Oratorio - something of a comeback (people chasing 2yo's)

    Blackfriars - still pound for pound the best commercial/stakes producer in the State

    There was a son of Verglas being promoted via fenceline banners, as a new acquisition for WA as well. No doubt the first of several for the new breeding season.

    There will be first season sires stock on sale next year I would think, as not all of Sessions, Safeguard, I'm All The Talk yearlings will be retained and most likely will be offered in Feb '18.

    One of the better ones at the moment in Demerit will be missing of course next year.




  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    CPL said:

    How is Rogano going?

    This season was his biggest in the last four in the number of mares covered at 42. For those just offered in this sale, there were 25 mares covered that season with 14 live foals, and four offered in this sale. Next year he only has 6 live foals on the ground, so they will be scarce in the sales ring.
  • TiversTivers    6,032 posts
    Of the new ones (from my observations) :

    Playing God - seemed to sell quite well. I didn't take a close look at them.

    Galah - really nice looking horses. I didn't notice how they sold however.

    Admiration - again very nice looking horses. Didn't sell all that well, but in saying that I didn't see many with pages that justified it (doesn't matter who the bull is if the mare hasn't got a page).

    City Place - I didn't observe.


    Of others
    Really just came down to the horses.
    Most sires seemed to be able to sell them at good prices, if the horse warranted it.

    Blackfriars, Oratorio, War Chant, Dash For Cash, Frost Giant, Trade Fair, Universal Ruler, Demerit as Damien mentioned, Rogano all managed good priced lots. (And I missed a few yes).

    Patronize I thought sold very well !

    Those that look down, on previous highs included :
    War Chant (still a few good $ ones, but had multiple in the $100,000's previous)
    Dick Turpin
    Actually - that's probably it. Other reductions were just in line with sale averages.
  • CPLCPL    596 posts
    Thanks everyone.
    I know no one wants to say anything bad about a stallion but if people don't speak the truth your certainly no helping others in my opinion.
    Damien can you tell us what new sires you have heard of or may have heard are coming over?
  • paraleticparaletic    2,180 posts
    Tivers said:

    Of the new ones (from my observations) :


    Playing God - seemed to sell quite well. I didn't take a close look at them.

    Galah - really nice looking horses. I didn't notice how they sold however.

    Admiration - again very nice looking horses. Didn't sell all that well, but in saying that I didn't see many with pages that justified it (doesn't matter who the bull is if the mare hasn't got a page).

    City Place - I didn't observe.


    Of others
    Really just came down to the horses.
    Most sires seemed to be able to sell them at good prices, if the horse warranted it.

    Blackfriars, Oratorio, War Chant, Dash For Cash, Frost Giant, Trade Fair, Universal Ruler, Demerit as Damien mentioned, Rogano all managed good priced lots. (And I missed a few yes).

    Patronize I thought sold very well !

    Those that look down, on previous highs included :
    War Chant (still a few good $ ones, but had multiple in the $100,000's previous)
    Dick Turpin
    Actually - that's probably it. Other reductions were just in line with sale averages.

    i did see that Neville bought a few of the playing gods and top price paid was by Patrick Payne, from what i could see from my computer screen it was a lovely looking animal .

    CPL, cinnabelle likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    It's very early for Stallions to be confirmed. When they are announced, I think it is prudent that you seek an opinion privately from someone you trust, as you won't get full disclosure in a public forum, just opinion.

    If the Stallion prospect is coming out of the UK or Ireland, I find attheraces.com is a good place to start for finding out form and watching video replays of his races and who he raced against. Obviously here in Australia we have loads of sources including the studbook.org.au or racingandsports.com.au for racing history etc.

    For transplanted Stallions, those who have stood elsewhere, research their fertility, winners to runners, sales ring success and suitability along bloodlines for your mare. There are many resources for this.

    Finally I would respectfully suggest that any opinion you would want to seek should be independent. That's an opinion not from someone working for, working with, someone who owns in part or outright, or who organised the purchase of that Stallion prospect.

    It's too important not to.

    CPL, cinnabelle likes this post.

  • NgawyniNgawyni    323 posts
    Arion NZ is easily the best site for comparing stallions imo. However I've noticed that Lynward Park stallions Trade Fair and Alfred Nobel are no longer listed there which is disappointing.

    https://www.arion.co.nz/StallionsRoster/StallionsRosterList.aspx

    CPL likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    6,032 posts
    Official Stats / Table on a "Return on Service Fee" basis - 3 or more lots sold.

    1. Gingerbread Man - disclaimer, $170k lot distorts figure
    2. Patronize (my observation appears correct)
    3. Demerit - likewise, 1 x $145k lot distorts
    4. Trade Fair
    5. Universal Ruler
    6. Dash For Cash
    7. Planet Five
    8. So Secret
    9. Playing God
    10. Galah (so they did sell well - I mentioned above I hadn't noticed)
    11. Admiration (sold a bit better than I though, although still not up to the physical quality of the lots)
    12. Oratorio
    13. City Place
    14. Scandal Keeper
    15. Frost Giant (disappointing)
    16. Blackfriars
    17. War Chant
    18. All American (the big surprise I missed, albeit on only 3 lots sold)
    19. Dick Turpin

    CPL likes this post.

  • MinesACoronaMinesACorona    112 posts
    edited March 2
    Vert De Grece the son of Verglas advertised at the MM sales to stand at Geisel Park according to their Facebook page.

    Good for WA?

    Did like Verglas myself produced a couple of goodn's for us
  • MinesACoronaMinesACorona    112 posts

    Vert De Grece the son of Verglas advertised at the MM sales to stand at Geisel Park according to their Facebook page.

    Good for WA?

    Did like Verglas myself produced a couple of goodn's for us


  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Lucky Street (Oratorio) has just been announced as going to Stud for Darling View Thoroughbreds. No mention of fee at this point.

    paraletic, CPL likes this post.

  • MinesACoronaMinesACorona    112 posts
    @DamienWyer in your opinion are these positive steps for WA breeders.
    Lucky Street was special.
  • silkysilky    179 posts
    Not sure that Lucky Street is really stallion material. Average pedigree and fair race track form. Didn't beat much in the Karrakatta and ran ok in the Winterbottom with the big weight advantage. Best run was probably in the Summer Scorcher from a wide barrier just going down to Sheidel. Didn't get out to any further than 1200m either.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    He probably has as much claim to standing as others that come to mind that were good WA based 2yo's enjoying minor success as 3 & 4yo's.

    Perhaps a possible prospect for Danehill line mares that have strong underlying families. He may add an element of early speed which appeals to many.

    I personally don't advocate a stallions prospect's at Stud purely on racetrack success but more and more stand on this basis around the World.

    So if your mare cannot justify a more commercial stallion, this horse may be worth a chance.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Just reading that Scandal Keeper was lost earlier this month after ten years at stud. I'm unsure if that news was conveyed when it occurred.

    CPL likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts

    Lucky Street (Oratorio) has just been announced as going to Stud for Darling View Thoroughbreds. No mention of fee at this point.

    http://www.breednet.com.au/news/132355/lucky-street-retires-to-darling-view-thoroughbreds

    Announced at $5,500 according to this interview
  • jumjum    1,595 posts

    Lucky Street (Oratorio) has just been announced as going to Stud for Darling View Thoroughbreds. No mention of fee at this point.

    http://www.breednet.com.au/news/132355/lucky-street-retires-to-darling-view-thoroughbreds

    Announced at $5,500 according to this interview
    might get 5 or 6 to him at that price
    :-??

    paraletic, RIO likes this post.

  • RIORIO    12,605 posts
    Great to hear your prepared to support the new season local that strongly jum...... ;)
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Seems to be a few early retirements to stand in The Hunter Valley, so there may be an opportunity for something to transfer West this year.

    CPL likes this post.

  • jumjum    1,595 posts
    RIO said:

    Great to hear your prepared to support the new season local that strongly jum...... ;)


    =))  =))

    RIO likes this post.

  • CPLCPL    596 posts

    Seems to be a few early retirements to stand in The Hunter Valley, so there may be an opportunity for something to transfer West this year.



    I'd like to see two new 'good' prospects come to WA not two go to the Hunter and two old rejects get the flick to WA. So many potential horses surely one day we will get a good one.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    There is no confidence in our breeding ranks to get commitment to a high priced first season stallion prospect. If there was, Awesome Rock would stand here in 2017. But multi million dollar prospects stay in the East as we don't have mare owners who this year are prepared to spend $15-20k on a service fee.
  • LendmefiftyLendmefifty    152 posts
    edited March 26
    DamienWyer, I'm interested in breeding to race on a hobby budget. Is there any stallions in WA that are free of Northern Dancer, or at least free of him in the female line with only one male relative?

    I'd like to use Denman, but the budget isn't there.

    Feel free to PM me.

    Thanks in advance.

    Stu
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Duplications buried 4 and five generations in a mare line should be of almost no consequence. Northern Dancer doesn't have an issue for me say as compared to duplications of Danzig and Danehill.

    To answer your question, but also to give you the best chance of getting something that can run, go to Gingerbread Man.

    Lendmefifty likes this post.

  • LendmefiftyLendmefifty    152 posts
    Thanks Damien. I like Gingerbread Man and also like their other stallion War Chant.
  • TiversTivers    6,032 posts
    Vert De Grece has a tiny bit of ND in him - being that his sire's dam is by a ND sire.
    As Damo says - pretty hard to find any horse with NO ND in them.

    Duplications of Danehill I'd certainly be wary of, especially over here with our hard tracks.

    Lendmefifty likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    6,164 posts
    Rebel Dane has been announced as going to stud at Swettenham following on this trend of winning races as the qualifications of standing at stud even though you come from a non performing family and were simply just the freakish one.


    Tivers, Lendmefifty likes this post.

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