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What about this French way of betting?

East Coast Racing

What about this French way of betting?Owners sometimes have a few in the same race and certainly the stables can have 5! plus in the same race,would take care of those "unfancied" stablemates when then win.

The Ecurie System

One important difference between French and British racing is the écurie system. In France horses from the same stable or ownership are coupled for betting purposes. In a race, if horses 2 and 5 are in the same ownership they are said to be ‘écurie’. This is shown in the race card by both horses having E1 in the column detailing their names. Should there be another pair of horses in the race both owned by a single, different owner they will be designated as E2. For win bets only, if you back one of those écurie horses you are backing them both. So if in the example above you have 10 euros to win on horse 2, which comes in last, should horse number 5 win, then you will still collect. Unsurprisingly, this ‘écurie’ or coupling process will be reflected by you receiving a shorter price than if the horses were not coupled.

Comments

  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    imagine with waller, weir and a host of other big stables...plus our own RJP.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    What it does is kill the price of the longer priced stablemate...that's the way I read it. If you get one at about $2 and the stablemate is say $8 ...the chances of one of those two winning would drop to about $1.75. So you are backing either to win at those odds. Or say both stablemates are $10 you put $5 on you will only get $25 back but you have both running for you. Not 100% sure on this but think that's how it goes and its to stop any shenanigans and 'disruptive punters' complaining when the roughie of the two stablemates get up. It's a safeguard for all participants!
  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    7,676 posts
    Would have worked well today with Hayes' $23 pop rolling his $1.40 pop Madeenaty at Flemington but in general stuff that betting concept!
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Yes that's true! Finished up starting $26 on the tab. But if it's linked to the favourite who is paying just $1.30 not quite sure under the French system what price you would get , I think you would only get less than $1.30 ...but that doesn't seem right . Yeah I don't like the concept either or maybe because don't quite understand it! But today say you put 1k on the Hayes favourite to win $300 you only needed to put $50 on the stablemate at $26 to have both horses coming up for $1300. Investment $1050 collect $1300 if either Hayes horse salutes.
  • hashhash    7,495 posts
    Would be a license to print money if you could do this on staying races that Waller contests
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited March 2017
    Just back to the Hayes horse starting $1.30...gosh we live in an era where if something is declared and spruiked they are going to the post at incredibly short odds of anywhere between $1.10 and $1.30. Races and trots. It's the era of unders on short priced favourites. Some win but marvellous how many don't.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Hope we never co-mingle with the French tote - they take about 20% out of win betting and about 30% out of novelty bets. Goodness gracious 20 and 30%...that's criminal. Pirates! :ar!
  • careycarey    6,368 posts

    Hope we never co-mingle with the French tote - they take about 20% out of win betting and about 30% out of novelty bets. Goodness gracious 20 and 30%...that's criminal. Pirates! :ar!

    well, when WA TAB became part of supertab for exotics then the commission rates went so high, that it forced a lot of people that understand these things, out.

    quinellas went from 14.75 to i think 17.5%
    exacta 16.5% to 20%
    doubles 17% to 20%

    in one fell swoop
    and that is criminal too!!

    it was another nail in the coffin for racing.

    the excuse was they need parity!!!
    so instead of wa reducing to levels of vic, it increased vic to wa levels.
    and look what has happened to pari mutuel turnover here.
    it is in freefall, and long may it continue!

    Ridersonthestorm33, lame likes this post.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    ^^Spot on. Once takeout rates on novelty bet types hit around 20% it's barlese , no more. Some bet types here have now hit 25%. Pick the winners on various sports - 25% takeout rates. Good luck beating takeout rates that high.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited March 2017
    Over the years first four betting takeout rates have gone from about 15% to 17.5% to 20% now it sits at 22.5%. Did only basic Maths 4 at school but can see a pattern. Will it ever go to 25 and 30% ? Bet your bottom dollar it will. The pick six in Victoria and NSW already around 25%.
  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    the interesting thing about it, is that wa pools on those bet types before they were part of supertab were sweet sweet nothing.

    and i have it on good authority, that wa tab(viz RWWA) has taken the place of tas tab, for giving extravagant rebates.
    so your average joe may be paying 20% for trifectas, but the favoured few(depending on the deal they can negotiate) are only paying a commission of 20% less their rebate.

    so basically here we have a government owned entity, partial to ripping off your average joe, to give expert joe's syndicate a discount.


    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited March 2017
    What about the rounding down policy too! After takeout rate your horse maybe showing $1.78 or $1.79 a win or place...does that go to $1.80 like it should ? Unfortunately no , criminally it goes down to $1.70. Oh brother how do they get away with that ?
    No different to going to Coles your bill is $12.71 and Coles saying to the customer we want $12.80.
    Tabcorp - a law unto itself.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Come on WA tab in regards to rebates...how about some transparency ? How about someone from the Tab come on Racing Radio and explain the rebate situation ? All above board - no worries - well then come on and explain. Its like the old used car lots - the detail is in the very fine print.
  • JellJell    1,201 posts

    Come on WA tab in regards to rebates...how about some transparency ? How about someone from the Tab come on Racing Radio and explain the rebate situation ? All above board - no worries - well then come on and explain. Its like the old used car lots - the detail is in the very fine print.



    Fat chance of that happening. They would pretend to discuss it then turn the blame onto the corporates. God forbid we have a go at the battling WA Tab. Wez and DMac were crapping on about them on inside running this week. Then had the audacity to say go down to your local TAB and bet instead. WA Tab fixed odds are essentially William Hill 8-}
  • detonatordetonator    4,360 posts
    edited March 2017

    What it does is kill the price of the longer priced stablemate...that's the way I read it. If you get one at about $2 and the stablemate is say $8 ...the chances of one of those two winning would drop to about $1.75. So you are backing either to win at those odds. Or say both stablemates are $10 you put $5 on you will only get $25 back but you have both running for you. Not 100% sure on this but think that's how it goes and its to stop any shenanigans and 'disruptive punters' complaining when the roughie of the two stablemates get up. It's a safeguard for all participants!


    Wished they had this form of betting on the Black Opal today. Bummer.
    I love hearing the trainers comments after the race.Shame he didn't mention the winner when he was talking about the fav before the race. :(
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