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Perth Cup back to 3200m.....maybe

West Australian Racing
Heard on the Radio this morning, Perth Racing have requested RWWA to begin looking into public consultation (what's that?) about whether the Perth Cup should return to it's original 3200m trip.

Some debate around it
Current climate of animal activism
Do we have the horses for a 3200m race
Will it lose it's Group 2 status

Ryan Hill made a good point - he said, who really cares about the status (if it fell from Group 2 to Group 3) when the race is a iconic race and is not a sire making or broodmare making race anyway!

Thoughts fellas?

Comments

  • hashhash    5,134 posts
    LEAVE IT AT 2400m
  • TheDivaTheDiva    10,546 posts
    its a nothing race as a 2400m anyhow.. just a standard saturday staying race. 
    I agree with Ryan hill, who cares about the status... it will all come down to the horses that are competing in it anyhow... 
  • savethegamesavethegame    379 posts
    The changing landscape re-training methods,rural environment,or boxed trained at ascot,recent history will show a perth cup winner will be more than likely prepared away from ascot with the last 26 cups only 4 horses gunyo,luna tudor,zamlight,king canute, were, and not  100% whether luna tudor"s whole training other than gallops had taken place at ascot.....
    When steroid use was legal a horse could absorb any conditions any work load, and come back tomorrow for more,even some horses breeding didn''t stop them running a trip or the heat...

    2 mile perth cup is not the real problem,but the conditions that are likely to be encountered on jan.1.In favour of two mile perth cup in different time slot only the size of prizemoney will make it a priority for trainers,because when you get to two miles you have got nowhere else to go with your horse.....A.D.Mathews would put both hands up if it was left up to trainers to vote, legend at two mile-racing...Seen the cup become bob peters as he doesn't have to have a bit of this and bit of that with his horses, and because of his position they are targeted  towards the cup...with  the fallout postrace- is inmartesticle to his operation         . If they don't come back etc ,which other owners don't have the luxury.and some would err on the side of caution re starting at two miles.



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  • hashhash    5,134 posts
    TheDiva said:

    its a nothing race as a 2400m anyhow.. just a standard saturday staying race. 

    I agree with Ryan hill, who cares about the status... it will all come down to the horses that are competing in it anyhow... 
    a standard saturday race doesn't attract the best stayers we have in WA all contesting the one race.... not to mention the eastern state visitors to throw a bit of mystery into the race.

    you'll get a much more competitive 2400m race whereas changing it back to 3200m will have half the field walking over the finish, not to mention the extra risk in the extra distance required to run it out

    Thunderstruck likes this post.

  • thefalconthefalcon    14,355 posts

    on the other hand you could argue it was 2 miles for well over a century.

    those in the purple circle want WA a sprint state..pure and simple. those 2200/2400m cup races over winter have disappeared. I noticed the recent Diggers Cup is now a mile after for nearly a century being 1800m or 9 furlongs.

    just watch the 2300m country cup get reduced...

  • runyonrunyon    427 posts

    I clearly remember that the reasons given at the time for changing the distance down to 2400 was to make it a more prestigious race and that it would attract quality eastern states horses. Apart from the first 2 years when there were 4 starters from the east in both years, there have only been 4  come over in the following 7 years and none in the last 4 years.

    I've always preferred it over 3200 because it give the old plodder a chance and I can relate to that.

    :D

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  • thefalconthefalcon    14,355 posts
    correction: Diggers Cup now 1400m. how many "Cups" are run over 1400m??
  • ChrisChris    3,792 posts
    Not many. Northam Cup is 1600m though isn't it?
  • paraleticparaletic    2,320 posts
    runyon said:

    I clearly remember that the reasons given at the time for changing the distance down to 2400 was to make it a more prestigious race and that it would attract quality eastern states horses. Apart from the first 2 years when there were 4 starters from the east in both years, there have only been 4  come over in the following 7 years and none in the last 4 years.

    I've always preferred it over 3200 because it give the old plodder a chance and I can relate to that.

    :D
    When you start catering for eastern state interests ahead of your own, that's where the problem starts. Im 3200m, always have been always will be. Should never have changed in the first place. 

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  • tofarkennardtofarkennard    88 posts
    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they run a crap 3200m race at ascot now ..gets a substanded field ..get back to traditional perth cup 3200m best stayers available and a true staying /test/handicap other than rocket racer haven't seen any in my time drop dead from the 3200m !!)
  • spinkingspinking    1,096 posts
    Neither did Rocket Racer Tofarkenard
  • thefalconthefalcon    14,355 posts
    lets leave that at rest, eh? :-B
  • tofarkennardtofarkennard    88 posts
    spinking said:

    Neither did Rocket Racer Tofarkenard


    my apologies pass away later never to race again may have been a snake bite or got headbutted by a elephant

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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,582 posts

    spinking said:

    Neither did Rocket Racer Tofarkenard


    my apologies pass away later never to race again may have been a snake bite or got headbutted by a elephant
    Thats what the myth around Rocket Racer suggests but the truth is he started 4 weeks later in the Queens Cup and ran 4th. Later while spelling Rocket Racer passed away.
  • LuckyLongshotsLuckyLongshots    4,202 posts

    "This is where the urban myth kicks in. Popular belief was that Rocket Racer never raced again after the Perth Cup. In fact, he ran again nearly four weeks later, finishing fourth in the Queen's Cup won by Travel Light.

    It was after that race that Rocket Racer, while spelling, died in unknown circumstances."

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  • LuckyLongshotsLuckyLongshots    4,202 posts
    David Hunter said the Pattern committee don't care if the race is changed to 3200m, however they will make the decision on whether it retains it's Group 2 status.

    One of the reasons it was changed in the first place, was because it was felt it would lose it's Group 2 status - which it didn't!

    He also said the Cox Stakes would remain at 2100m, regardless of any change, as they feel that race has improved in quality since the reduction from 2400m to 2100m
  • ThumperThumper    671 posts

    I like it how it use to be

    Perth Cup 3200m

    Cox Stakes 2400m - If you leave it 2100m they'll need to introduce another lead up race

    WA Derby - return to boxing day and hopefully 1 runner or 2 going onto the Perth Cup

    whipitgood likes this post.

  • JellJell    413 posts
    Love to see it 3200m again but only if they have the proper lead up races.

    No point making it 3200m unless horses can be aimed at it properly with the necessary races to get them there. Need a decent 2400m lead up race a few weeks before.

    CPL likes this post.

  • dungydungy    9,068 posts

    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they run a crap 3200m race at ascot now ..gets a substanded field ..get back to traditional perth cup 3200m best stayers available and a true staying /test/handicap other than rocket racer haven't seen any in my time drop dead from the 3200m !!)

    spot on that 2 mile race a few weeks back was a disgrace , it wont matter if its moved out to 2 mile the same stock go around and they generally wear cerise and white 
  • spinkingspinking    1,096 posts
    Without looking did Bp have a runner in the 2mile race
  • dungydungy    9,068 posts
    spinking said:

    Without looking did Bp have a runner in the 2mile race

    Dark Alert odds on went like a busted ass 

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  • whipitgoodwhipitgood    4 posts
    it will come down to the quality of horse a 2 mile version will attract. If it attracts only 5 horses of listed grade, the benchmark will fall, which result in a downgrade to G3 over time. If it attracts better quality horses of group level and more of them, it could increase to a G1. Onwers these days want a return immediately, hence why WA horses are such greater sprinters historically. Staying horses need patient owners, with deep pockets. The debate will be interesting though
  • thefalconthefalcon    14,355 posts

    if it goes ahead, the cox MUST be reverted back to 2400m. if they refuse then the cup stays at 2400m..

  • TiversTivers    6,160 posts
    thefalcon said:

    on the other hand you could argue it was 2 miles for well over a century.

    those in the purple circle want WA a sprint state..pure and simple. those 2200/2400m cup races over winter have disappeared. I noticed the recent Diggers Cup is now a mile after for nearly a century being 1800m or 9 furlongs.

    just watch the 2300m country cup get reduced...

    Hardly just WA.
    How many Australian bred horses in the MEL Cup last year ?
    ONE was it ?

    A 3,200m can only be one of two things :
    - Purely for imported horses, and the occassional freak
    - Crap

    In saying that - I really don't mind either way.
    Perth Cup doesn't feature on my "most like to win" list. 
    I'd rather win a Guineas to be honest.

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  • TiversTivers    6,160 posts
    Thumper said:

    I like it how it use to be

    Perth Cup 3200m

    Cox Stakes 2400m - If you leave it 2100m they'll need to introduce another lead up race

    WA Derby - return to boxing day and hopefully 1 runner or 2 going onto the Perth Cup

    Earlier the Derby is the lesser quality it is.
    For eg - no way Gatting would have been in it had it been Boxing Day. Was nowhere near ready.............(maturity).
    Can't speak for other runners, but sure he wouldn't be alone in that respect.

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  • VoodooVoodoo    814 posts
    If the industry had a bonus system similar to westspeed but for 4y/o and 5y/o stayers, breeders would maybe have an incentive to get a staying line of stallion.
    Possible that any 4y/o or 5/yo win at 2000mtr up gets a 10 or 15  grand bonus if its Western Australian bred....maybe just an option...but at least it's an option.
    Would then increase the staying types from just crap (Tivers quote) to an acceptable staying type standard ?????

    cheers
  • TiversTivers    6,160 posts
    Just getting Bulls in wouldn't sort it.
    Would take time (generations) to build a book of that breed of mares.
  • VoodooVoodoo    814 posts
    edited May 11
    Rome wasn't built in a day Tivers and we have to start somewhere........the whole industry has to look forward.....it will take time, unfortunately time is something we are running out of.

    cheers
  • TiversTivers    6,160 posts
    lot of effort and cost to go to to have a crack at one race a year
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,582 posts

    image

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