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Handicapper gifts Niccatrice the big race at the expense of River Dance.

West Australian Racing
Tsk tsk. What a shame, what a rip off.

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  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts
    For those that don't know, the reasons are covered in this thread
  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    it WAS blatantly unfair.

    i reckon mantime probably wins that with a gate, although i don't understand how come it was in the field to begin with?

    anyway, they would know they did it unfairly, but did it anyway.
    not a good look, and definitely not transparent as they claim to be.

    i reckon the 2nd horse connections should take the handicapper to task, and say it was YOU that cost us the win.
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    carey said:

    it WAS blatantly unfair.

    i reckon mantime probably wins that with a gate, although i don't understand how come it was in the field to begin with?

    No comment on the handicapping but the race was for horses that haven`t win a City race and every horse that met that condition was eligible.

    The "regional" part doesn`t exclude anyone it just separates the state into regions, including metro.
  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    fair enough.
    but my first sentence has nothing to do the second, because the handicapping was blatantly unfair.
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    Regional Championship ...The Road to Ascot is for Metro trainers as well!?!?!?!??! And its all rated on Metro handicapping as a 1 to 1 rating!?!?!?!?!
    .
    Fastmoney said:


    The "regional" part doesn`t exclude anyone it just separates the state into regions, including metro.

    Most of the metro region can go to the track any day of the week...but not on a Saturday with such poorly handicapped opposition!!!
  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    "All Western Australia-trained horses that have not won a prime
    metropolitan-grade race will be eligible to part in the Regional
    Championships, the final of which will take place immediately before the
    Group One Crown Perth-Winterbottom Stakes over the same Ascot trip of
    1,200 metres."
  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    It's unfair after the race? 20-1 SP bet but it's easy to say after the event. I've tipped every Melbourne Cup winner.....on the Wednesday morning 8-}

    carey dislikes this post.

  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,236 posts
    In fairness Niccatrice was specifically mentioned to have received a free win compares to river dance, giving it effectively a 2kg advantage. And Niccatrice beats river dance.
  • Weight has zero to do with it
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,236 posts
    Did I miss the point that rodent/Carey was making then?
  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts

    It's unfair after the race? 20-1 SP bet but it's easy to say after the event. I've tipped every Melbourne Cup winner.....on the Wednesday morning 8-}

    If you had taken the time to read the appropriate thread (the link was provided above) before trying to be a smartarse, you would have found this, which was posted last Thursday. 

    "Carey is spot on. Niccatrice has won his last 2 including a $30k heat and his rating has gone from 67 to 71 (up 4 points). River Dance won his last start in a $30k heat and went up 4 points so Niccatrice got a free win. How? Because going into the York heat, Niccatrice had its c70 converted to an m68. He won and went from m68 to m71. So why hasn't River Dance gone from c75 to say m73?
     What a joke!" 

     If Niccatrice had to carry the extra 1kg or River Dance 1kg less, it would have been very interesting.
     

    Jell, carey likes this post.

  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts
    So poor old River Dance has a c75 and comes to town and gets no relief despite him earning his rating against a small pool of horses in Gero. His c75 becomes an m75. Astonishing. So I went and had a look for similar examples.
     Last year "Full Steam Ahead" won at Gero (10/4/16) as a c75 so would have gone to c78 as is the norm. They brought him to town at his next start and he was given an m72! What's worse is the majority of FSA's wins were in town and that was his first win at Gero so the bulk of his rating was not earned running against the "same isolated pool of horses" yet he still got a whopping 6 point discount.
    Of course it works in reverse too. Success Story wins a few in a row to get to m70. Then runs a shocker running 11th of 12 in a 66+ at Ascot. Goes up to Gero....becomes a c74!
  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts
    Cranky Dancer from Gero runs 4th as a c82 at its last start in Gero. Comes to town and becomes an m74. River Dance who got on the float as a c75 comes to Ascot and is an m75!
     You can't make this stuff up.

    RIO likes this post.

  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    at least people will know now what they are getting up to as regards this.
    will they take them to task though???

    what i want to hear is their justication.
    how about it mr malpass?????


    but, in reality there is much more of the same nonsense right through the handicapping department.


  • careycarey    6,368 posts

    Weight has zero to do with it

    W R O N G

    weight may not mean as much as some people think it does, but i learned a long time ago that if you could measure the effect something had, then it   M U S T  mean something.

    but it's another topic and does not belong here, because........
    regardless of if it means something or not(it does!), then the handicappers WERE being disengenuous, which is what this topic is about.


  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    And I've been warned again about commenting.........this industry is fugged.....time to find another hobby

    rustyh likes this post.

  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    who has warned you rio?
    rwwa?
    specific department?


  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited December 2017
    Rodent said:

    It's unfair after the race? 20-1 SP bet but it's easy to say after the event. I've tipped every Melbourne Cup winner.....on the Wednesday morning 8-}

    If you had taken the time to read the appropriate thread (the link was provided above) before trying to be a smartarse, you would have found this, which was posted last Thursday. 

    "Carey is spot on. Niccatrice has won his last 2 including a $30k heat and his rating has gone from 67 to 71 (up 4 points). River Dance won his last start in a $30k heat and went up 4 points so Niccatrice got a free win. How? Because going into the York heat, Niccatrice had its c70 converted to an m68. He won and went from m68 to m71. So why hasn't River Dance gone from c75 to say m73?
     What a joke!" 

     If Niccatrice had to carry the extra 1kg or River Dance 1kg less, it would have been very interesting.
     

    Wasn't trying to be a smart ass but if something is in light and weight counts as much as some of you think, then you back it. River Dance was the race fav and a horse that got a 'free win' has beaten it at 20-1. I didnt read the initial thread because if i had, then i would have been posting these all thru this thread: $-) $-)
  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    carey said:

    who has warned you rio?
    rwwa?
    specific department?


    RWWA about my being licensed and the social media policy.....Not the handicap department , just management
  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts
    @therealkramer the fact that punters got it wrong is irrelevant. The connections of River Dance have reason to be filthy. The difference in prizemoney was $30k.
     You have totally missed the point. The race was patently unfair from a handicapping point of view. What punters do after the weights come out is irrelevant.
     When I wrote that the race was "gifted" to Niccatrice, I wasn't inferring it was a weighted certainty but rather in the context of the result, it is likely that the unfairness of the handicapping actually made a real difference. If Niccatrice had won by 2L it would be fair to assume the unfair handicapping had no bearing on the result but it won by a long neck in a very fast run race. 1kg could have been the difference.

    RIO, carey likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    ^^^^ 2kg even more so
  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited December 2017
    So it wasnt really thread worthy @rodent or do you have an agenda like others on here who put the boot into administrators any chance they get? To me, the punt is king. I couldnt care less about anything else but how you spend your time is up to you.
  • RodentRodent    7,025 posts
    My only agenda is pointing out mistakes and calling people to account in the hope that there's some slim chance that standards may be raised. If racing administrators do their job well, it makes life easier for me. 
     In the case of handicapping, it makes no difference to me as a punter but as a person, I hate to see something patently unfair to some participants because someone in racing admin isn't doing their job properly.
     Newsflash, even if I had won big on Niccatrice (I only had a small bet on it), I would still have started this thread.
  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    give it up rodent, it's pointless

    i guess clips of the boss and the river are more relevent than your niccatrice thread?
    great song but relevance?

    do you think i have an agenda kramer?

    if you don't care about anything else kramer, then that is a big part of why YOU are losing long term.
    know your subject comes to mind, and it's very true of gambling on horse races.


  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    RIO said:

    carey said:

    who has warned you rio?
    rwwa?
    specific department?


    RWWA about my being licensed and the social media policy.....Not the handicap department , just management
    if the truth worries them, then they have big big problems.

    RIO likes this post.

  • spinkingspinking    3,739 posts
    Nevershow what is it you think weight has nothing to do with?
  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    carey said:

    give it up rodent, it's pointless

    i guess clips of the boss and the river are more relevent than your niccatrice thread?
    great song but relevance?

    do you think i have an agenda kramer?

    if you don't care about anything else kramer, then that is a big part of why YOU are losing long term.
    know your subject comes to mind, and it's very true of gambling on horse races.


    Nice try. Go for the insult straight off the bat eh? Confirms my point about your obvious agenda and you already admit you don't bet.
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    i have a question to ask...why didn't the connections of River Dance complain once the weights were released?
    this is a very important topic so why don't the "victims" demand a meeting with Malpass?? 

    RIO, therealkramer likes this post.

  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    so i have an agenda you reckon!
    and just what would that agenda be, may i ask?
    a straight answer thank you kindly.

    and where is the insult?
    i simply wanted to know why clips of the boss are more relevent than rodent bringing up niccatrice, whcih WAS relevant in the context of how pathetic the handicapping on that race was.
    and said that you lose long term and you do.

    i don't bet NOW, but now is now, and then was then.
    and it has nothing to do with anything.
    except trying to muddy the water maybe.


  • careycarey    6,368 posts
    thefalcon said:

    i have a question to ask...why didn't the connections of River Dance complain once the weights were released?
    this is a very important topic so why don't the "victims" demand a meeting with Malpass?? 
    maybe they don't read ptt, but it was not only them disadvantaged?
    the results should probably indicate too which template was hard done by.
    and if i checked last years'(did not realise until rodent brought it up) then i would bet money that the metro template horses did best that day too.

    i reckon they are copping it in two ways.
    there is no way that there is only 1kg difference between the two templates, as they have it.
    so they are already disadvanteged.
    but then to give them a metro rating the same as their country rating is a double banger disadvantage imo.



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