Comments worth a post but not a thread of their ownHarness & Greyhounds

Chariotsonfire

One of those inexplicable dividends in trotters Race 8 at GP tonight. Earl Harbour $4 win $6.40 place and $31 fixed with a win pool of $10.7k. Someone backed the wrong number perhaps. Was $25.90 2 minutes before start.

curmudgeon

Took $23.fixed on Baldy Face after his good run for ACL at his last start.

Stepped him ( RODS) to the lead tonight and set fractions that never let others off handicaps into the race.

Didn't anticipate he would blow out further in price but happy enough

SLIPPERGOLDEN

How does a Chris Lewis driven horse start at those odds...Akin to Kim Kardashian having no interest in her butt.

Betonme

Since that trainer put all his horses up for sale last week, they all jumped out of the ground. Must of put them all on notice  :))

Offthebit

Baldy face has 2 wins from 44 starts. Just a battling trotter.

Both wins have been with A C Lewis in the gig. The man is a marvel.

Made it look like a 6/4 shot the entire way.

How many other drivers could have stepped an RODS battling trotter to the front?

Not many, if any..............

Paulo8

Hello all, I haven't been on the forum in an AGE... but I could use you your assistance please.

I have tried for a long time to find a definitive answer to the following;

What is the hierarchy of race classes in trotting/pacing? 

I swear I have searched far and wide and still found very little. Would very much appreciate your help. Thanks in advance.

curmudgeon

Paulo...the handicapping system in WA is about to undergo a massive change....proposed for commencement in April initially but probably a little behind schedule.

Essentially in future horses will be handicapped within brackets of lifetime dollars won ie dollars won in WINNING performances will decide your horses competitors not accrued prizemoney in total. Allowances for juvenile wins and classic and group wins (discounts on winning prizemoney amounts) will be built in.

The old Class system will go by the board in favour of this conditioned race system that will give some more flexibility in programming it is hoped.

RWWA site has the info if you want to browse around. 

Gilgamesh

curmudgeon said:

Paulo...the handicapping system in WA is about to undergo a massive change....proposed for commencement in April initially but probably a little behind schedule.

Essentially in future horses will be handicapped within brackets of lifetime dollars won ie dollars won in WINNING performances will decide your horses competitors not accrued prizemoney in total. Allowances for juvenile wins and classic and group wins (discounts on winning prizemoney amounts) will be built in.

The old Class system will go by the board in favour of this conditioned race system that will give some more flexibility in programming it is hoped.

RWWA site has the info if you want to browse around. 

This sounds interesting @curmudgeon, is there anywhere with more detail, racing ahead I guess? Are they online now?

All for some sort of change.

Don't know how much I like the brief description though. Reminds of a horse I was very fond of in the late 90s (will remain nameless) that I did a lot of money on as it regularly rattled home for a place. One more win and it was in open class and I later discovered the owner trainer had the theory 3 seconds is basically equivalent to a win and if I win I will probably never run second again!

Gilgamesh

I have just seen the end of the email directing me to RWWA, cheers.

curmudgeon

http://www.rwwa.com.au/home/racing/industry-feedback-on-new-harness-business-model-7118.html

Gilgamesh

At a quick glance I like it, anything to get away from those 100k plus 3 yr olds running around in maiden races.

Paulo8

Thanks 'mudge! That does look to be a fairly easy system to handicap by.

Currently, I have no understanding of what C0, M0, RO or any class of race is in harness. WHY I would be punting on it with no real knowledge is pretty daft... 

<:-P

curmudgeon

Some names that later made their way downunder in this vintage footage of the Little Brown Jug of 1971

Paulo8

Wow....seee and hear that crowd !

curmudgeon

Another time capsule from 1979

JayJay

Sonsam, a super star, blitzed them but interesting to see Maple Lanes Strike in the field. Stood at stud in WA mid 80's, not hugely successful with Whitby Heritage (Stratton Cup, Ladyship Mile at HP etc) probably his best but I suspect more to do with the Ed Dewar's great producing mare Remit.

JayJay

Few would have heard of Nansemond, by Tar Heel, a stallion line that died out but Albatross put his sire Meadow Skipper up in lights for eternity and then flew his own siring flag like few others. But when Nansemond won that Jug ( 3 races in a day, how's that for toughness), breaking Albatross's winning streak, it was huge news.

VillageKid

Absolutely amazing old footage Curmudgeon.

If only there was some similar footage from the same halcyon era from GP & RR around somewhere.

curmudgeon

There are 9 pages of Maple Lanes Strike progeny as a broodmare sire 

100K plus earners see a few duplications of members from the same mares

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/bms_ltwinners.cfm?horse_id=72020&sort_order=R&restrict_to=O&strt=1&show=25#data

JayJay

I know he was the broodmare sire of Has The Answers or All The Answers and some of those Duffy/Schofield "Golden" mares but I think there may have been quantity rather than quality overall.

curmudgeon

Broodmare Sire's Live Foal Totals by Season

Other BMS Reports Live Foal Totals This Season Summary Last Season Summary This Season Starters Last Season Starters Lifetime Starters This Season Winners Last Season Winners Lifetime Winners Weekly PDF Files

Broodmare Sire: MAPLE LANES STRIKE USA (deceased)

For Broodmare Sires with overseas bred progeny - overseas breeding and racing information can be obtained from the relevant International Controlling Bodies. Refer to Understanding this report for explanation.

Season Foaled	Australia	View Foals
1987/1988	1
1988/1989	9
1989/1990	7
1990/1991	25
1991/1992	21
1992/1993	29
1993/1994	23
1994/1995	36
1995/1996	27
1996/1997	27
1997/1998	29
1998/1999	29
1999/2000	38
2000/2001	34
2001/2002	29
2002/2003	37
2003/2004	21
2004/2005	30
2005/2006	14
2006/2007	22
2007/2008	14
2008/2009	13
2009/2010	10
2010/2011	7
2011/2012	5
2012/2013	2
2013/2014	1
2014/2015	2
2015/2016	1
2016/2017	1
2017/2018	1
Total:	545

AbbysAce

Two jackpots from the last race at Pinjarra today?

$3857 from the first 4 ( should be going to Northam race 1 tomorrow night)

$7587 from the quaddie ( should be going to Northam quaddie)

Why not? 

Markovina

Riders pet hate - jackpots on the last race at WA harness  just dissappear - and dont automatically go to the 1st race at the next WA Trots meet

Maybe the antiquated computerised WA Tote set up cant handle it - i mean do they still have Tierce betting at GP - honestly youd feed your ticket in - and the machine would make the weirdest noise - like it was actually eating the ticket - and then about 90 seconds later youd get your live tierce ticket back

VillageKid

You haven’t been to the premier track of all Australian capital cities (GP) in a fair while I take it Marko?! :)

Markovina

No seriously i havent been to a meeting anywhere - since about the time  Harold Park finished up

Once i use to go everywhere - i can remember once catching a train from Sydney to a Bulli night meeting -( either a Boxing night or New Years Eve night ) which is a good 60 -70 kilometres away

Never forget it - the whole track and surrounds stunk of cigarettes - it was shocking

Ridersonthestorm33

Haha it is a pet hate those last race jackpots with first fours and quaddies...in fairness it's out of the WA Tab hands. Its the Vics who take control of last race jackpots and they eventually put them somewhere else or combine them to other jackpots in Australia. They think that's better...cmmmmmon.

How last race first fours and quaddies that have any jackpot component aren't put to the following WA Pacing meeting or even GP on a Friday is a disgrace and don't know how they get away with it.

Ridersonthestorm33

Yeah they were funny machines back then, well described Marko, I remember the old tierce bet at GP...purely an on course bet. Which coming to think of it a bit unusual even for back then and wouldn't happen now.

I did Tierces all night at GP once. Think was taking 5 horses always, can't remember what it cost perhaps $10 rings a bell, but did think well I just can't lose doing these...famous last words. Looking back wonder what the takeout rate was on them. Fairly high no doubt.

Think six horses always was $15 for the 50 cent unit. Or $30 for a full unit. Five horses was $10 for 50 cents or half a unit. So twenty dollars for the full unit. I remember because they were double the cost of a quinella...5 horses in the Q was $5 for half a unit or $10 for the full unit.

Tierce betting was also on course at Ascot and Belmont too, but once again was just on course, has never been a Tab bet, not that can remember.

To have half a chance on bet types like the Tierce and making a few dollars the takeout rate needs to be fairly low but there would as much chance as that happening as last race jackpots in WA actually going to the next WA meeting.

jum

How did tierce betting work Riders

Chariotsonfire

Unlike trifectas that have to be in finishing order the tierce could be in any order.

For instance a three horse trifecta always costs $3 for .50c where a tierce would cost just .50c.

Tierce was easier to get but dividends were accordingly much lower than the trifecta. Very small pools which did throw up some unusual dividends.

Ridersonthestorm33

Yep spot on Chariots.

Was trying to work out today if five horses always in a trifecta is $60 for full unit why would five horses always in a Tierce be only $20 for full unit..after all you still need to get top three in. But obviously with Tri they have to be in order so more combinations whereas Tierce any order which requires less combinations and therefore a lower cost.

Tierce betting is extremely popular in parts of the world but it's never really taken off in Australia. Other bet types throughout the world similar...some take off some don't. Quinella and Exacta betting in some countries far more popular than trifecta betting and vice versa. Doubles, first fours etc very popular somewhere in the betting world but not so in other parts.

The Duet betting in Victoria and elsewhere. Any two in any order. Most of the dividends are shocking.

So back to the Tierce...with taking five horses always, its a case of would you rather get the Tierce for three full units which would cost $60 or the Trifecta once also costing $60. It depended on a few factors.