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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • MorganJamesMorganJames    130 posts
    The Prices go up 5 hours before each race on Saturdays and Tuesday.
    Beteasy who  we all know supply the markets for tabtouch and are easily the least competitive corporate with their  percentages.
    Then tabtouch in their wisdom and business model when they do finally put prices up they are a roll under the Beteasy Prices.

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 20
    Yes already poor odds are then shaven.
    Place betting - why bother.
    Most 100/1 chances are now about 5/1 a place, and that's with no odds on fave in the race.
    Staggering really.

    That's been a well known practice from day one - whatever corporate supplies the odds - there's then a roll of the board to go under.

    6/1 with a corporate account = 5/1 Tabtouch, 11/8 = 10/9 or even money, 4/7 = 1/2 or 4/9 and so it goes.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts
    Breaking my rule of not commenting om bad drives as there are far too many and nothing can be achieved but Ray Retzlaff's drive on Doc Ryan was mind boggling to the extreme.
  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    358 posts

    Breaking my rule of not commenting om bad drives as there are far too many and nothing can be achieved but Ray Retzlaff's drive on Doc Ryan was mind boggling to the extreme.

    Mind Boggling is very polite of you Chariots.
    IM sure the Voak Train would offer a stronger description
  • JayJayJayJay    5,146 posts
    Ohoka Punter revisited.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts
    Inquiry adjourned into Doc Ryan $81 being beaten 81m.

    Notation one out one back at bell is not a good start to the inquiry.
  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    358 posts

    Inquiry adjourned into Doc Ryan $81 being beaten 81m.


    Notation one out one back at bell is not a good start to the inquiry.
    Yeah it dosent bode well if that's where they thought it was at the bell.
    Not the first time though. Hopefully they fix it up.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
    Nothing to see drew bar. one led first -half run in 60.5, horse must suffer some from some sort of heart fibrillation? from time to time check when ryan warwick drives it July16-- 2018 doesn't make it to the bell..Its future must be in doubt as a race- horse.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts
    First up 2692 mobile after 4th of four in Pinjarra trial.

    Has the opportunity to sit on the in form 2nd favourite and use the sprint lane if capable but would prefer to lead and run last.

    Driven totally beyond its ability.

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  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    358 posts
    Whisper is in the stewards room Ray offered his license up a couple of times and was told to sit down.
    God bless him as a character.
    would think 6 weeks would be fair.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
    Have a look when A.C.Lewis drives it 11 feb. 2019, stops at the 400m. didn't spend a penny in the run gets beaten 50metres....The stewards mr retzlaff we are starting to have grave concerns with doc ryan to continue as racehorse, for its own safety and other participants as its the fourth time in the last twelve months it has compounded abruptly  twice with you as the driver once with r.warwick,once with c.lewis, we find fit to refuse doc. ryan nomination in future.

    Unless with veterinarian intervention , a problem has been discovered and corrected with surgery or the likes. and then three trials. to be completed satisfactory. The driver has nothing to answer to re-tactics. in this race.m.h.o.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    250 posts

    Have a look when A.C.Lewis drives it 11 feb. 2019, stops at the 400m. didn't spend a penny in the run gets beaten 50metres....The stewards mr retzlaff we are starting to have grave concerns with doc ryan to continue as racehorse, for its own safety and other participants as its the fourth time in the last twelve months it has compounded abruptly  twice with you as the driver once with r.warwick,once with c.lewis, we find fit to refuse doc. ryan nomination in future.

    Unless with veterinarian intervention , a problem has been discovered and corrected with surgery or the likes. and then three trials. to be completed satisfactory. The driver has nothing to answer to re-tactics. in this race.m.h.o.



    Nothing to answer regarding tactics!? Gee I’m glad you’re not a steward
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
    We all have a Persian version, harness throws up a lota grey areas but possession is nine tenths of the law, as the blue light is activated horse in gate one owns the marker line intially,Retzlaff maybe why he's not in the top whatever number of drivers in the state has decide to keep the lead..

    Its probably why the first quarter was run in 30.8 Voak knowing it was a no go zone,over the years the drivers know what certain drivers its rip,quit,or bust, scenario loone,g.johnson,retzlaff, If your haven't the gate speed you can kiss your **** goodbye,as far as the lead is concerned,but if retzlaff was to  start to voak's outside and  was applying full petrol whip out on 80/1 chance,and they run 28 first quarter by all means suspension looms, sound like people like to hand out driving instructions to suit placings in the novelties because the winner won by 25 metres and started at 1.40, so retzlaff wasn't offside with the punters.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts
    Retzlaff found guilty of driving in an unacceptable manner, penalty yet to be decided.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 24
    That's true about certain driver's stg, take no prisoner's approach...a couple over east Andrew Vozlic and Ahmed Tabia are renowned for it. Punting wise you get to read them like a book.

    It's just their approach, sometimes it pay's off. $1.10 shot in gate three and there drawn in gate one on a 20/1 shot to take a sit...it ain't neccesarily so!

    Lady driver over there several years ago was in a bit of controversy - just can't think of her name at the moment - she was an attacker too, don't die wondering approach.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 24
    Gosh who was that Victorian lady driver...had a Greek or Italian name, blimey she could serve it up to the best of them...won't come to me. Might have been rubbed out for a positive or two, not sure now.

    Gave up on Doc Ryan two or three years ago - sat behind the leader - gave little. Horse's that get the sprint lane and do nothing - not all the time but 98% of the time can give them away from a punting perspective.

    Their is no easier run in sport.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts
    Gaita Pullicino may be the driver you are thinking of Riders. The industry was better off for her departure.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    Yep literally came to me just one minute ago. Controversial figure there for a little while and some of her driving tactics definitely raised the ire of punter's.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
     Riders;;;Vozlic,- Devcic----Ever  see ic on the end of reinsman name means the lead is mine at any cost,----Boris Devcic.  was at his peak 20-25 years ago. done everything bar bite them between the ears.at release point.

     Riders Remmeber a horse vin knight had called Almeta boy in the scoreup he was the only horse people had tickets marked out for him to miss a place as odds-on in trifectas, watching the scoreup if  he danced once quickly put the tickets,on because it would be a fairway after release point before he would start pacing. but there was a couple times he was just to good..

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    Yes Almeta Boy do recall him, they always seemed to close it off on me haha but did get on one trifecta at Harold Park when the 1/5 ($1.20) chance began to gallop in the score up, losing all chance, for once I was ready because like Almetta Boy this horse could be a bit headstrong.

    Was an early race about 4 o'clock our time - spent a fortune because think took about 8 or 9 of them always...anyway the bloody thing got back in the race, and ran about 5th. Massive run.

    Got a couple of roughies in there and the tri paid a four figure amount - it needed to!

    As the old milk commercial use to say for that chocolate/strawberry flavoured drink - Quick Is The Trick.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
    Riders. just looked up Almeta boys record 92 starts---27wins----17 seconds --4 thirds    5 times ran eighth 6- nineths  8- tenths  48 times in a hole.----- 44 times missed a hole, he won a group one. he raced the best of them.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 24
    Yes for sure stg, do recall him as a horse of good ability and catching the eye.

    Look their is nothing worse than being on something and seeing it gallop in the score up. Different states have had different rules over the decades.

    Don't know if there is a right answer, gallop - cause no interference - too bad for punter's and good news to other punter's.

    A tricky one. I've been on them when it's happened very occasionally, but it's terrible not to get any run for your money.

    I'm ok with it though, certainly a lot better than the ridiculous idea of somebody or commitee to close off betting early as runners were just beginning to score up.

    Often betting was closed even earlier than what it should've been. They shelved that and rightly so - must've cost them a fortune.

    Although in NSW going back awhile apparently cancellations were being accepted well after jump time. Also a joke.

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  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    358 posts
    Interesting to see Ray's horse scratched from the first at Northam last night due to non arrival on course.
    Maybe Ray thought they can all go and get f*cked.
    Has had his licenses suspened until he attends an inquiry
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,065 posts

    Gaita Pullicino may be the driver you are thinking of Riders. The industry was better off for her departure.

    I think it is her son Tony - who like Gaita was a talented driver - but he also fell foul of the stewards - and he chose the worst state to do it in - NSW ( they dont muck around ) - he got 12 years for his 4th TC02 - you would never get 12 years in WA for your 4th TC02

    With Tony - there was a unique case/incident when he was down in Tasmania - where he did quite well as a trainer and freelance driver

    Obviously the stewards down their were given given the  tip to keep an eye on him - because ive never seen what transpired in harness racing  before with him

    What happened - he either drew the outside of the front (8) or the outside of the2nd row (12) - and his horse galloped in the score up - so he is 40-50 metres behind - he finally got it into a pace - and like anyone in that situation - tried to make up the ground before release point - he got to within about 3 lenghs of them - and the horse when originally galloping had drifted  down near the pegs - so he ended up - following the horse on the 2nd row in the running line out - and ended up in a reasonable position - 7th or 8th - 1 out 3 back

    His horse ran 2nd - the stewards held up the all clear - and then disqualified his horse - ive never seen that happen in Harness racing in those circumstances before

    I think the stewards overall do an outstanding job - but sometimes they hammer the situation - and dont think of the punters - who also get hammered - ie Quin Tri - 1st 4 and E/W punters - it would leave a very sour taste - if you successfully had that horse in any of those bet types

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,281 posts
    Riders remember a punter  eighties,when there wasn't much form done and the old type bookies that didn't  do any form, who had a standard procedure of laying  the favourite get the money in the bag,and bet around it,But they were guided by the one little 12inch teletext that showed the market  via  tab. The cancellation rules were virtually up to start time.The punter he would  have 1k. on two horses that were short in the market say 3s and 4s and the  one he wanted to bet was 4s also. straight after the previous race the bets were placed, The old bookies set his prices up under the teletext market ,but the price of the horse he wanted to bet on would open up 5 or six points more on the board better. the teletext,which would only update every three minutes c.r. 
    Once he was set then cancel the tote tickets on the other two,didn't mean the one he backed always won. Of cause things liked this lead to amendments to cancellation times.One day using this method, he was approached to help organize a plunge for particular owner told the owner what to do 1k on these two horses, one was horse called alestano, the other one? , Then 10 k was placed on the pea around the ring which was marshall sea, goes terrible runs tail-end Charlie...

    On the **** three or fours after meeting owner spewing, reaches into his pocket still got the other two tickets forgot to cancel them, low and behold Alestano had won  pays 10 the win. nearly square.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 24
    Yes the old cancellation trick began to be frowned upon in latter years.
    What about when some people apparently were getting on after the jump at the Greyhounds and that had to be changed. Think possibly made A Current Affair or one of those shows.

    The genuine people who make a mistake and want to cancel should still be able to. Working out who's genuine and who's not can be something else though.

    The best attempted cancellation ever: Robert Shaw in the great film "The Sting."
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,022 posts
    edited July 24
    As for the wonderful pacing name Retzlaff - goes right back to my earliest memories of pacing - had something like $10 ( that was big back then - still is! ) a place on a Jack Retzlaff pacer - it was one of the late races - ran second or third at odds.

    These were the day's when the West Australian newspaper had a great coverage of the Friday night card - covering several races in write ups - this race was one - so I eagerly read...."Jack Retzlaff was elated with the run of...such & such" ( can't recall the name of it ) great little write up off the event - only trouble was had no idea what the word "elated" meant...off on the bike to the library to look it up!

    The silly things you remember but yes Jack Retzlaff was very happy and pleased with the run.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,749 posts

    I am not sure that I agree with the decision to withhold the
    vision of Race 4 at Pinjarra on Monday. There was a serious fall in this event
    and I agree that exposure to mainstream and social media should be avoided if
    possible. To remove the vision altogether however does not allow punters to do
    post race form analysis for future reference. At the very least the fall itself could be edited from the replay after all it is 2019.

    Major sporting organisations in Australia have handled
    controversial matters very poorly in recent times and whilst this is at the
    lower end of the scale transparency is always the best policy.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    266 posts
    Totally agree Chariots. However you must remember we are talking RWWA here and their decision good,bad or ugly is final.
    Have mentioned this issue previously btw.

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  • tonytony    1,823 posts
    Interesting that the eastern states TAB's have not withheld and the replay is available.

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