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Fremantle Pacing Cup night.

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts
    Chris said:

    Great tip Rosie



    80/1 about the place this morning. Give it Dana Dukes run it wins by 10m
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    Nathan Turvey/Shannon Suvaljko exacta $750.




    You say that like it should of been followed... see his steer on Livura?
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    That's why pencils have erasers.

    Umpires make mistakes, players make mistakes, jockeys make mistakes, trainers make mistakes, stewards make mistakes and yes even reinsmen make mistakes...us punters however we never make mistakes!

    But fair enough I'm the same and sometimes curse the drives...it is what it is.

    I'm a big wrap for Turvey overall.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    That's why pencils have erasers.

    Umpires make mistakes, players make mistakes, jockeys make mistakes, trainers make mistakes, stewards make mistakes and yes even reinsmen make mistakes...us punters however we never make mistakes!

    But fair enough I'm the same and sometimes curse the drives...it is what it is.

    I'm a big wrap for Turvey overall.




    Which part would you classify the mistake? The part where he took the FAVOURITE to 4 back the rails at the start during a hot lead time? Not sure on the percentages but there’s plenty of statisticians on here maybe they can fill us in on how many horses let alone favourites win from 4 back the paint at GP
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    tony said:

    Why is K Prentice driving still ? Surely once the B sample came back it is out the gate until the hearing. The shift in evidential probability is massive. You would be nice and dirty if he beat you home driving one while under this cloud.


    Out as trainer but allowed to drive.
    I am aware of the situation Tony.....he is a trainer/reinsman...but in terms of licencing the two are not mutually exclusive. The B sample is in so the balance of probabilities have shifted in terms of guilt. So if you have backed Major Catastrophe like I did you have to sit on your hands whilst Prentice can't obtain trainers percentages but rakes in a winning drivers percentage.....a bit incongruous in the circumstances don't you think ? Especially at my expense I tend to think. It is almost a certainty he will be on the sidelines...certainly more probable than not given the events .....for a decent time. Should be suspended from both training and driving until the hearing at the very least. Bad taste in the mouth for the industry.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    They definetly don't ever win from four back the pegs when I'm on 'em! To be honest didn't bet on the race so wasn't taking a lot of notice...only when he was sneaking ground on the pegs near the corner did I catch a glance...will watch replay when can.

    Back to the Fremantle Cup...need to watch replay of that too, to see if Devendra or The Bucket List got a crack at them, they were caught up behind the tiring Bettors Fire. Noticed him swinging on The Bucket List near the corner but nowhere to go.

    Soho Tribeca need to see again too...was three wide and thought might come into it..not sure what happened after that ? Possibly dissapointing but need to see race again.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Just watched a replay of the Fremantle Cup - fantastic race - so much better than the Inter final - which Hall Snr correctly said  was a bit of a no contest - because so many drivers piked it

    Didnt bet - but i was hoping little Chicago Bull - could hang on - it was a great tactical drive by Junior - and he didnt get flustered  at any stage and stuck to his guns

    Echo the sentiments about  Rassmussen not letting the stablemate in - kudos to her

    Curmudgeon has been telling the world how good Lazurus  is - after tonight i think hes right - funny that - sometimes you get beat - and its your career best run - looking at the watch - the overall time - and all quarters - its performance was out of this world
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited January 2018

    Rasmussen;;no bacon&eggs in bed. in the morning, just had to keep the death,and the bull three deep  lazarus would have had cover, three deep and more than likely wins..Purdon can't believe he tried to put her  in a down right cheaters position full credit to her ...bravo for the sake of the industry.. 
    She looked over her shoulder once in the breeze early ....saw Lazarus three deep trailing the Bull and decided to let the Bull go.....great drive Hall jnr that didn't quite pay off for himself....bluffed and won tactically by a fair way and the stable ultimately capitalized via Hard Copy ....but to my way of thinking Purdon and Rasmussen got it completely wrong and were forgiven by two very good horses. Actually she could have been in strife if Jnr hadn't grabbed hold of the Bull and disallowed the room for Lazarus to drop into the 1 x1  in front of Ultimate Machete. Looked a bit ordinary at the time.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Only punters you'd feel more for than the ones who took the short odds Lazarus, there the ones who took a $1.40 on battling type Dredlock Rockstar and even more sorry for the ones who took $1.32 on the Hall trained Wardan Express , who previous three runs before tonight , last, second last and ninth.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    50k quaddie dividend tonight and 20k not selected so a carryover of that amount.

    Now will that be added to Narrogin tomorrow night ? Bunbury Sunday ? Pinjarra Monday ? GP Tuesday or how about at the big GP meeting next Friday...all answers no.

    Tabcorp in its wisdom holds onto that money and it goes into a 'twilight zone' ...might turn up in a Group Three race at Caulfield and on a first four...who would know, we are never told.

    How they can hang onto the punters money that was lost tonight and just put it on a race or trot meeting most likely in Victoria and in several weeks or months time is a fair dinkum joke.

    Punters who had a crack tonight..deserve to have a crack at getting it back a.s.a.p. and it should be on a WA trot meeting.

    As said before Tabcorp were fined 45 million dollars last year on money laundering charges...they should be fined another 5 million dollars for hanging onto punters money without consent.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts

    Only punters you'd feel more for than the ones who took the short odds Lazarus, there the ones who took a $1.40 on battling type Dredlock Rockstar and even more sorry for the ones who took $1.32 on the Hall trained Wardan Express , who previous three runs before tonight , last, second last and ninth.

    <br/

    No sympathy for anyone who backed Wardan Express at that price, they must have blopdy rocks in their head!
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    How did that start $1.32 ??? Plus Dredlock @$1.40...favourite's like these average types especially when they draw well are starting at rock bottom odds. Some win , several don't ...and if you had $100 straight out on all of them ( just run of the mill horses ) you'd be in the run searching for the Rosary beads.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts

    The drive on Livura was possibly the worst I’ve seen from start to finish

    Not sure what was worse, Nathan's drive where he went to the pegs to allow the stable mate to drop down from the three wide line and then did not shift wide in the final lap when the run came or the stewards failure to query driving tactics. Line ball in my opinion.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    The fate of short priced favourites on Fremantle Cup night:

    WINNERS
    Miss Sangrial $1.38 - brave to take that price on last run
    Maczaffair $1.06 - too classy but still very short
    LOSERS
    Lazarus $1.34 - beaten but probably over the odds on that run
    Dredlock Rockstar - looked winner but $1.40 way too short
    Warden Express $1.32 - another that looked a strong chance but way too short
    Lightning Colt $1.65 - Busselton - a very average conveyance

    As famous race caller Ken Howard would say "Never bet odds on and never run up steps".

    A euphemism that would severely restrict punters capacity to have a bet in this era of long odds on favourites.



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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Ultimate machete has now at two of his last three starts stood down vets certificate he may well have a niggling issue he has carried in both starts or come out of the run with a new problem? both lazarus and ultimate machete made contact with wheels in the one incident very lucky they only both put  a rough stride in the process ... Hall jnr again proved no one comes close to him when he is on song, regards on acting on a situation in  a split second..

    Brilliant spectacle all round thought devandra was smoking the pipe at the bell for a place folded up like a cheap k-mart tent..the top horses had that extra gear at the top of the lane....Lazarus dug that deep he needed a cap lamp to see where he was going,the little bull was still throwing leather at the fifty good as race as you will see, the 800m track allows this to happen...

    Again Nat Rasmussen for whatever reason lazarus didn't get in,Our great sport would have been viewed the same as wrestling by some more of the punting public he will probably start talking (mark) on Tuesday...Greatness is some time decided by what lengths certain participants  go to achieve it whether, its right or wrong..Sportmanship and the righteee is noticed by all.followers of that particular sport they follow...

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited January 2018
    Clint Hall drove My Hard Copy to the same pattern as he did to win two Pacing Cups. At that level he is a one trick pony but it is a very nice trick. GP and the barrier draws certainly contributed to the level of discomfort experienced by the two kiwis.....the smiling assassin had his bum twitching on the seat for a long time in running and Nat ...if I am kind ...she may have anticipated Harper handing up to Jnr once Lazarus came calling for the second time early but she allowed her horse to drop off Jnrs helmet and gave a token flick of the reins when it began to look a little obvious that a gap was appearing for the champ to slot into....Jnr was all over it and slammed the Bull into reverse briefly....he must have eyes in the back of his head such is his awareness at times. Super staying effort by the great Lazarus and Chicago was as brave as any horse that has gone around GP. Really enjoyed watching drivers running through the gears tactically every 200m or so of the race and without burning their own chances they made some hard decisions and stuck with them. Interestingly the post race queries centred on multiple stable runners and who advantaged/disadvantaged who....or could have done. For mine having only two horses from any stable in the race would make it easier to decipher and interpret as a race and that restriction should be factored into field selection across the board. Ohoka Punter never really influenced the race as the third Hall player in this race but could have complicated the conundrum from a different draw. All clear pay tote.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    At the end of the day it was Hall, Purdon, Hall, Purdon 1,2,3,4....does much more need to be said about the total dominance of two powerful stables that in reality were much too good for the rest of them.

    Hall 1.
    Purdon 1.

    Pacing Cup - Winner take all.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Always thought My Hard Copy was a little like the good horse Elteei, then he lost form and thought no he's not as good as Elteei but now he's struck good form again he maybe so. Elteei was a very good underrated horse.

    Hard Copy has that similar driving finish and sprint.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts

    Always thought My Hard Copy was a little like the good horse Elteei, then he lost form and thought no he's not as good as Elteei but now he's struck good form again he maybe so. Elteei was a very good underrated horse.

    Hard Copy has that similar driving finish and sprint.

    Elteei was a very nice fast class pacer for Lewis in the 80s and was an old fav of that era but im not sure he was in the same class as MHC mate after all he now has 2 x WA Pacing Cups, Interdominion Heat Winner (in track record time at Bunbury) and now a Fremantle Cup winner added to an already very nice resume.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Why wouldn't the Corps risk Dredlock Rockstar and Wardan Express ? Put them out to $1.70 or $1.80 they could've made a ( bigger ) fortune....bookies of old would have been screaming better prices both of them but today it's a no risk factor.

    Maczaffair at the $1.06, was very fortuitous that Shannon Suvalkjo was able to do what Purdon couldn't do and that was to slot into the one out one back and get a breather , he still would have won but the way Ayana ran would have been difficult to get past just the same.

    He's a good horse but barrier nine and just $1.06 was ridiculous and never in the run could you have been totally confident.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    legoland said:

    No bets for me, value, where can U find it at GP ?

    Think I'll just see how the usual 7 odds on favourites go !!!
    My Hard Copy- $53.80
    Dana Duke- $30.90
    Abraxas Blues- $18.20
    Tanaka Eagle- $17.70
    Master Jaxon- $14.40
    Real Lucky- $3.40
    American Boy- $3.20
    Im Rockaria- $2.80

    Some decent value there i would have thought and that is on top of Marquisard,Chal Storm, MakinChanges, Glow Bright, Bad Round, Bettors Fire over the last couple of weeks.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    With that sort of record belonging to My Hard Copy does make one wonder why he was $53.80!!

    At least did have him off the back row ( front line ) in my standing start race. Was very tempted to put him off ten metres too. He got in light haha.

    Had Lazarus off 20 or 30 which were handicaps throwing him in...with the extra ground he covered he may as well have been off 90.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    What a fantastic race the Fremantle Cup was last night at the premier trotting track in the country Gloucester Park.
    Lazarus run was absolutely astonishing as was the drive by Jnr on Chicago Bull and the training performance by Snr with MHC who looked finished as a fast class prospect only a few months back.
    It doesnt get any better than GP on a balmy Summers night with top class real Group 1 horses running around now just cant wait for the mouth watering return bout in the WA Pacing Cup next Friday night.

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts

    With that sort of record belonging to My Hard Copy does make one wonder why he was $53.80!!

    At least did have him off the back row ( front line ) in my standing start race. Was very tempted to put him off ten metres too. He got in light haha.

    Had Lazarus off 20 or 30 which were handicaps throwing him in...with the extra ground he covered he may as well have been off 90.

    I believe Lazarus covered an extra 82m being 3 wide the trip last night mate it was an astonishing performance to only just go down on the line.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Anybody who catches Devendra, Bettors Fire, Abraxas Blues, Tanaka Eagle and Glow Bright head down to GP and collect Punter of the Year award!

    Lazarus best run ever...would say ( and only seen it on TV ) but Mt Eden losing about 70 metres at the start in a Miracle Mile over 1609 metres and winning on a tight Harold Park track would take some stacking.

    Mount Eden could have sat 7 wide on the outside of horses like Devendra, Motu Premier, Vulcan Tin etc and gone straight past them in a blink.

    Remember being at GP and seeing a Les Poyser horse driven horse sit three wide the entire race and win. Taking nothing away from Lazarus it was a phenomenal effort.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Yes VK had about 90 metres in mind as a rough guess so happy with the 82 metres conversion.

    Does show too though how well the good horses really do get in on the handicaps....no weight to carry unlike the thoroughbreds...otherwise Lazarus would have 65kgs...instead he may get barrier one in the Pacing Cup and Motu Premier gets 12.

    Luck of the draw is fair enough but the destruction of standing start handicap events has seen the strong get stronger and the weak get weaker.

    That's the path they took however and that's fair enough too...why penalise the better horses for slower ones..understand that argument too.

    Me though I'd prefer the battlers drawn well and the Bull, Lazarus , Machete, Copy out at 7,8,9 and 12. ( Where there all still thrown in compared to yesteryear).
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    That's the path they took however and that's fair enough too...why penalise the better horses for slower ones..understand that argument too. 

    Why? ...It's called handicapping Riders....it is a necessity mate otherwise the best horses win all the time and the industry folds as a gambling medium.  RBD only works when the field contains a few above average horses that can bring about the undoing of the best horses via racing characteristics and getting first call on field position.
    The Inters and Freo Cup make interesting comparison......prizemoney was too lucrative for second third and fourth in the Inters and drivers tried to be conservative and happy to aim for a top four finish at worst.....Freo Cup...at 300 K total it was Sydney or the bush

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Am with you Curmudgeon...was hoping somebody would come up with that. Was putting up another side of the argument but I'm with the punting side of it...best memories are of when horses like Bay Brigade , Captain Forlese etc would run a place at big odds because of a front row draw from the stand...it wasn't easy for them either and they were talented horses but they needed a bit of help against the real top liners - it created betting - it created turnover.

    No knock on the three Perth Interdominions - loved 'em...but two of the three were leader , breeze , behind leader and three back pegs dominating the placings.

    2015 - Lenny ( breezed ) Lovers Delight led , Flaming Flutter behind leader , Our Blackbird ran 5th from three back pegs and Avonova followed the pegs home to cut the Blackbird out of 4th on the line.

    2017 - Lazarus breeze , Bull behind leader , Tiger Tara led , Vulcan Tin three back pegs and they ran 1,2,3,4.

    Yes last nights race was sensational but it took Lazarus to be three wide the race to make it so. If he gets to the breeze early last night we all know it's another procession.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    edited January 2018
    Anybody who catches Devendra, Bettors Fire, Abraxas Blues, Tanaka Eagle and Glow Bright head down to GP and collect Punter of the Year award!

    Lazarus best run ever...would say ( and only seen it on TV ) but Mt Eden losing about 70 metres at the start in a Miracle Mile over 1609 metres and winning on a tight Harold Park track would take some stacking.

    Mount Eden could have sat 7 wide on the outside of horses like Devendra, Motu Premier, Vulcan Tin etc and gone straight past them in a blink.

    Remember being at GP and seeing a Les Poyser horse driven horse sit three wide the entire race and win. Taking nothing away from Lazarus it was a phenomenal effort.




    Was it the good ol stayer Keystone Express Riders?
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Yes Keystone Express - the ultimate one paced grinder albeit in lesser company. Was handy though. Can remember having a good trifecta coming up providing if Of Auld Aberdeen can drop out after sitting three wide the race - no it stuck on like glue to run third.

    It's rare, it's very rare, but have seen it done on occasions ( and over east ) ...three wide with cover occasionally too. Three wide without cover though - that's amazing when you do see it. Possibly Gammalite might have sat three wide the entire race once or twice to win or be placed. You need to be tough that's for sure and Keystone Express and Of Auld Aberdeen were and Lazarus and Gammalite there just freaks!
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