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Fremantle Pacing Cup night.

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    I remember Morgan James beat Village Kid at Richmond Raceway one night in a 2 horse field Riders. He might have beaten VK a few times but no disgrace as Willie was an all time great.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Given some of Martin Chisley's comments of Twitter, as a part onwer of Lennytheshark, Ultimate Machete and Lazarus, he appears to have been infected by a triple dose of the ownership virus.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    That's amazing... had a silly feeling that Morgan may have defeated Village Kid at Richmond Raceway...the two horse race didn't see it - but very vaguely recall.

    It was a popular bet type - Village Kid to win and Morgan James the place.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts

    WA Top Field in Order that have seen.

    1. Pure Steel
    2. Village Kid
    3. Preux Chevalier
    4. Im The Mighty Quinn
    5. Satinover
    6. San Simeon
    7. The Falcon Strike
    8. Jack Morris
    9. Baltic Eagle
    10.Lincoln Storm
    11.Velvet Prince
    12. Sinn Fein

    Emergencies
    13. Zakara
    14. Black Irish
    15. Gap Road
    16. Rite
    17. Chicago Bull
    18. Morgan James

    Riders  you have pretty well nailed it, what was your thought on david Hercules, maybe shattering class was probably a better winter horse? i am with you a inters winner doesn't cut the mustard rhetts law.
  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    508 posts
    Chariots
    I have been following the Twitter spat of Chisleys and its quite full on.
    I am not a massive fan of Jr but he handled it very well on twitter and was very humerous the way he replied.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Thought of David Hercules great horse but not in my elite 20. Didn't think of Shattering Class should've...yes definetly in the top twenty.

    That horse was amazing..kept on trucking. Win after win there for awhile.

    Poor old Rhetts Law nobody seems to like him - a bit like when Shane Woewodin won the Brownlow Medal ( although i thought Woewodin was an excellent footballer ).

    One thing with Rhetts Law and Woewodin you can't take it off them they both won their respective titles fair and square!

    Didn't like Rhetts Law in the heats and didn't like him in the final - it's remarkable how many people have met along the journey who have said the same thing.

    Somebody must have backed him! He's an Interdominion winner and we can't take that away from him.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Laurie Connel had some big bets on Rhetts Law at the calling of the card but he actually started at a longer price on the night.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Rhetts Law, Yulestar, Thorate, Weona Warrior Carclew......right time, right place, all Interdominion winners but Rhetts probably the least likely horse to be crowned an Interdominion Winner.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Put Velvet Prince in the top 12 - he's a very early memory - but do recall him running extremely well in a Interdominion series at Moonee Valley - his third in the final when working hard in the breeze was a terrific effort. Fought on all the way to the line to just get the place. There's a replay of that race somewhere - was on him for a place and thought the finishing line was never going to arrive! Must have been just a nose in it.

    Have heard Fred Kersley speak about him a couple of times and he put him right up near the top - he was lavish in his praise for the Prince.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    There is some parachiol nonsense in this thread !!!

    Westburn Grant should not be put in the same street - suburb as Popular Alm - some of Westburn Grants big wins were as soft as butter - namely when B Gath handed up the lead to him on Franco Ice  . Westburn Grant a suspect " Champion "

    Rhetts Law and Thorate if you dont mind please - i saw alot of Thorates wins - a tremendous horse with an electrifying turn of speed - where as Rhetts Law was a bloody cat - who won an Inter Dom final under stand start conditions off the front row on a 700 metre track - dear of dear oh me - as i pick myself off the floor

    And i will save the best for last - and this will put plenty of noses out of joint ( and i couldnt care less ) - San Simeon was the most overated pacer of all time - wouldnt have it in the top 30 or 40 .It won the wekest weakest weakest weakest weakest - Inter Dom final on record - down in Tassie - Neville Gath - had a 3rd string scrubber which ran 2nd to it . Michael Frost who was tough and honest ( but hardly a top liner - showed in the heats what a cream puff " Champion " that San Simeon was
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Just to clarify my top field is WA horses only - named 18 of them and no Rhetts Law.

    Nobody has any praise for Rhetts Law including me...however they don't give Interdominion final wins away at Coles.

    JJ says the least likely horse to be crowned an Interdominion winner - agree!

    You've mentioned it before JJ but what was Rhetts Law record like after the Interdominion Final - he may have won just a few more races - don't think it was too many but handy enough.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited January 2018
    Markovina said:

    There is some parachiol nonsense in this thread !!!

    Westburn Grant should not be put in the same street - suburb as Popular Alm - some of Westburn Grants big wins were as soft as butter - namely when B Gath handed up the lead to him on Franco Ice  . Westburn Grant a suspect " Champion "

    Rhetts Law and Thorate if you dont mind please - i saw alot of Thorates wins - a tremendous horse with an electrifying turn of speed - where as Rhetts Law was a bloody cat - who won an Inter Dom final under stand start conditions off the front row on a 700 metre track - dear of dear oh me - as i pick myself off the floor

    And i will save the best for last - and this will put plenty of noses out of joint ( and i couldnt care less ) - San Simeon was the most overated pacer of all time - wouldnt have it in the top 30 or 40 .It won the wekest weakest weakest weakest weakest - Inter Dom final on record - down in Tassie - Neville Gath - had a 3rd string scrubber which ran 2nd to it . Michael Frost who was tough and honest ( but hardly a top liner - showed in the heats what a cream puff " Champion " that San Simeon was

    I drove San Simeon in trackwork on a number of occasions Marko......you have never been so wrong in your assessment of a horse in your life. 29 wins in a row....all the 2 y/o majors....Derbies as a 3 y/o belting the strides off Gammalite....Pacing Cup....Inters including such weak links as Pure Steel.....all flukes..... you are talking from a position of ignorance out of your arrse mate.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Yes - from someone who actually " doubted " Popular Alm

    Popular Alm if not the greatest pacer of all time - i had him equal with ImThe Mighty Quinn

    You dont rate Popular Alm - where as most people would have him 1 or 2 .

    San Simeon doesnt belong in the same discussion as Popular Alm
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Gee markovina  came up along side curmudgeon and started whistling gee sure drove him up on the chewy, opinions  what makes it  great for us old timers to be heard without laying some leather.ha.ha
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Did I tell you the one about the South Australian chemist who sent a ute load of Type A and Type B clearly marked plastic bags to Victoria Marko ?? Well they weren't for upset stomachs I can tell you.
    I am talking from an informed factual base Mate....not some miffed interstate slagging off. The Knight stable sure had some good stayers "perform" well in Perth...all except Popular Alm who went like the proverbial busted arrse.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Must admit I'm The Mighty Quinn could easily have been my WA number one. Pure Steel - Village Kid - Preux Chevalier - I'm The Mighty Quinn - there the fantastic four. Could easily have Mighty on top.

    Of course the Quinn did his early racing in NZ. Hall took him to another level or two. Three of the best Interdominion wins you could ever wish to see in NZ, NSW and WA. At Menangle at the bell thought this horse can't possibly win. Sensational he was.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Put Gap Road and Rite in top WA eighteen - a couple of ex Croweaters! SA trotting - very sad now...but a good meeting their the other night - SA Cup and Derby - always great races with a strong Victorian representation. Gavin Lang on the top of his game - winning both features.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Popular Alm career record

     62 starts 49 wins 7 2nds and 3 3rds - only unplaced 3 times

    Correct me if i am wrong - but i thought it only had 4 WA runs - being Rhetts Law Interdom carnival

    It demolished them in the 1st heat - but then the horse had a problem from the stands - so much so that in the final - they requested to be made out of the draw in the final . Also prior to it coming - either it or Gammalite was sick - they couldnt get a flight - then they could - it was so uncertain that Leo Occonnor pulled the pin with Gammalite

    Interesting radio interview i heard with Darren Binskin - who was Vin Knights right hand man when he had Poppy . He said that Poppy was a very quiet horse to handle - even though a stallion - however re his arch rival Gammalite . Binskin said although a quiet horse in the stable - he said however when at the races - and in the parade ring - as soon as he saw Gammalite - his ears would prick - and he would try to savage him
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Westburn Grant a suspect champ....a suspect champ????    67 starts, 38 wins, 17 placings, over 2 million in prize money, won every major race in the land??

    Interdominion, Miracle Mile, APC, WA Cups (x2), SA Cup, Queensland Championship, NSW Derby, Victoria Derby...won majors in every state in Australia.

    Will not resort to your preferred commentary of pie throwing but I will very respectfully choose to totally disagree.


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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    LOOKOUT-four-twenty coming atcha followed up by  a mrs. mac...Great horse to come back with a smashed pastern was there at the inters jack morris won. looked proppy in warmup didn't leave track in great state never raced again.

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts

    WA Top Field in Order that have seen.

    1. Pure Steel
    2. Village Kid
    3. Preux Chevalier
    4. Im The Mighty Quinn
    5. Satinover
    6. San Simeon
    7. The Falcon Strike
    8. Jack Morris
    9. Baltic Eagle
    10.Lincoln Storm
    11.Velvet Prince
    12. Sinn Fein

    Emergencies
    13. Zakara
    14. Black Irish
    15. Gap Road
    16. Rite
    17. Chicago Bull
    18. Morgan James

    Nice work Riders I might have a crack at it myself but from only 1980 onwards when I saw my first trots race at GP (The unforgettable Match Race Of The Century).
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    edited January 2018
    I had a crack at this back in 2013 on the 50 best all time WA Pacers Thread:

    1. Pure Steel 2. Mount Eden 3. I'm The Mighty Quinn 4. Village Kid  5. Preux Chevalier  6. Beau Don 7.
    Satinover 8. San Simeon 9. Jack Morris 10. The Falcon Strike 11. Frosty
    Nelson 12.Binshaw 13. Baltic Eagle 14. Kellett 15. Classic Garry 16.
    Dainty's Daughter 17. Dark David 18. Captain Sandy 19. Norms Daughter
    20. Royal Force 21. Saab 22. Pacing Lawn  23. Red Vicar 24. Black Irish
    25. Chandon 26. Renaud 27. Pacing Lawn 28. Color Glo 29.Blue Pennant 30.
    Radiant Oro 31. Mister Karamea 32. James Eden  33. Roscott  34. Wee
    Cent 35. Shattering Class 36. Kolworth 37. Pyramus  38.Garry John 39.
    Paavo  40. Mr Magical Mach  41. Has The Answers  42. Zakara  43. Whitby
    Timer 44. Local Product 45. Mercedes 46. Virgil Queen 47.Admirals Avenue
    48. Morgan James 49. Tiara Court  50.  Nixon Adios

    How do you separate the first 5, or 10 for that matter.

    Unlucky
    to miss out:  Rhetts Law (won an Interdominion but don't know how),
    Tricky Vic, Lookslikelightning, Bintravis and Bin Oro, And about 70
    others!!!
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    edited January 2018
    VKs Best From The West Field 1980 onwards in numerical order by year not best-

    Final Field

    1. Pure Steel
    2. Satinover
    3. San Simeon
    4. Preux Chevalier
    5. Village Kid
    6. Jack Morris
    7. Norms Daughter
    8. The Falcon Strike
    9. Baltic Eagle
    10.Im TheMightyQuinn
    11.Chicago Bull
    12.My Hard Copy 

    Consolation Field

    1. Black Irish
    2. Sinn Fein
    3. Morgan James
    4. Lincoln Storm
    5. Jay Bees Fella
    6. Chandon
    7. Zakara
    8. Justaboyden
    9. Saab
    10.Mysta Magical Mach
    11.Im Victorious
    12.Beaudiene Boaz

    Honourable mentions to the unlucky- Gap Road, Rite, Indian Chant, Garry John, Classic Garry, Yarracoola,  Elteei, Palimar, Paavo, Valley Champ, Hilarion Star, Shattering Class, Havago, Admirals Avenue, LooksLikeLightning, Has The Answers, David Hercules et al.


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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    Am happy VK with 1-4 no particular order.

    Followed by Satinover who caught the imagination. Saw him beat Pure Steel before the match race at GP on his merits. He was a bit different - and in a few stands - he was wild at the start! Haha. Roguish with explosive speed.

    San Simeon - what was it 28 wins in a row ? That's either a very good horse or very good placement. Perhaps both but know one thing I've never had 28 winning bets in a row! So am ok with top 6.

    After that becomes very subjective - but thought The Falcon Strike if anything was a little underrated - he was a gutsy champ and ok with him at seven.

    The rest it's difficult to put in order - just depends upon what you're looking for in a great horse. Record in big races ? Consistency ? Guess there just a couple of things.

    You could quite easily have The Mighty Quinn, Zakara, The Falcon Strike and Chicago Bull in top 12. That would give Seinor four of the top twelve.

    If My Hard Copy wins the Pacing Cup added to his great record he could easily slot into top twenty.
    Yet he had a patch - for whatever reason, where his form was awful. Don't know where history will place him...but let's just see how he goes from here on in. Chicago Bull the same.

    I've probably been kind to Gap Road and Rite the two stablemates because had some good wins on them - that can cloud the judgment!

    A couple left out from the early days because can only just recall them are Red Vicar and Royal Force. Royal Force was very classy from memory. Indian Chant too - he raced in top company until about 13-14 an effort in itself.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    You left out Lincoln Storm - who i thought was a top class horse

    And its not pie throwing - people are allowed their views - like Bunbury yesterday - every race - 61to 64 sec 1st 800s -  last 800s 56-57 seconds - walk them - and dash home - i think Bunbury is bloody shocking - where as i think Albany is very good - McKinley who led and ran 4th at Albany beaten 7 metres - the 1st and 2nd horses stood it up 15-20 metres at the 400 - and comfortably beat it - thats what i call terrific harness racing- not the boring crap they dish up at Bunbury - they could bulldoze that track for all i care - thats my OPINION

    And if i was standing in front of the firing squad with my life riding on it - and if it came down to a 2 horse race - as open age pacers ( not 2 or 3 year olds ) then i would want to be on Lincoln Storm not San Simeon - again my opinion


  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Michael Frost beat San Simeon in a heat, not heats...fact....and it was when San Simeon galloped at the start for the first and only time in his life....and they, Michael Frost included, never got near San Simeon in the final....fact. Lincoln Storm was a fine horse, tough as teak, no question but San Simeon was no cream puff champ.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2018
    VK when i said happy with 1-4 that was my 1-4...but your 1-4 no argument there either. Satinover at number 2 for you, that's great, he was my favourite horse, so at least i wasn't being bias by putting him 5.

    And yes Norms Daughter - definetly agree there. My Hard Copy nooooooo haha not yet...don't like this saying because everybody says it - but the jury is still out on him.

    Shattering Class definetly in my consolation.

    But it's interesting to see a top 24 opinion from the 80s onwards.

    Beaudiene Boaz lost too much form to warrant top 24 for me. Not too far away though! A possible case for Shattering Class to be top 12. You've been harsh on him VK!!

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited January 2018
    In 1977 Milson Edition became the first horse to run sub 2 minutes at Globe Derby at a distance of more than a mile ( 1800m). His next start he ran second to Rip Van Winkle in the 2600m Australian Pacing Championship. He returned to WA along with his travelling companion Virgil Queen following that race. Some weeks later I drove San Simeon....an unraced 2 y/o.....on the Milson Lodge 600m uphill down dale track......he sat on Milson Edition over 2000m and ran past him in 27 and change final qtr. 
    He was a champion with impeccable manners that was not tested all that often because he used to control races from start to finish.

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    edited January 2018

    VK when i said happy with 1-4 that was my 1-4...but your 1-4 no argument there either. Satinover at number 2 for you, that's great, he was my favourite horse, so at least i wasn't being bias by putting him 5.

    And yes Norms Daughter - definetly agree there. My Hard Copy nooooooo haha not yet...don't like this saying because everybody says it - but the jury is still out on him.

    Shattering Class definetly in my consolation.

    But it's interesting to see a top 24 opinion from the 80s onwards.

    Beaudiene Boaz lost too much form to warrant top 24 for me. Not too far away though!

    Hey mate my list was not in a best of order it was just done in order numerically by year they raced (and I saw them) from 1980 to now.
    I can see why you would be thinking that way in regards to MHC but 2 x WA Pacing Cups, Fremantle Cup, Interdominion heat winner (in track record time) and finalist amongst other wins and good runs here and E/S swayed my judgement (plus a few handy collects on him I might add) haha.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Gotcha VK - I should look before I leap.

    Now that is an apt saying that has stood the test of time.

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