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Special General Meeting Kalgoorlie

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,470 posts
    The same argument was used for the closure of Geraldton where it was stated at the time that 80% of the starters came from outside 200km.

    Conversely at the gallops 80% of the starters came from within 200km.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts

    The same argument was used for the closure of Geraldton where it was stated at the time that 80% of the starters came from outside 200km.


    Conversely at the gallops 80% of the starters came from within 200km.
    How many local trainers in Albany ?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
    So 14 country meetings in Kalgoorlie become 14 community meetings elsewhere.
    What is happening to the surplus stakemoney from the transition ?
    Smoke and mirrors time again ?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
      HARNESS THE RHYTHM
      BUILD THE PROFILE OF HARNESS RACING
      INSTILL CONFIDENCE WITHIN INDUSTRY AND ENCOURAGE
      PARTICIPATION TO BROADER AUDIENCE


    Where did you find that STG ?.....looks like an edict from the Ministry Of Truth  in George Orwells 1984
  • Kane_26Kane_26    28 posts
    edited April 17
    I understand what your saying @curmudgeon, Albany would barely have half a dozen trainers all year around but the difference is the track is close enough to many other big training areas that they get plenty of support. They are 3 hours from Bunbury, 4 1/4 from Pinjarra and byford and about 3 hours from Narrogin.

    They also have multiple trainers in closer regions like Collie, Wagin and Katanning. Kalgoorlie struggled to get support from Kellerberrin 3.5 hours away and with the amount of trainers in Northam apart from Lang Inwood who else has recently gone from Northam to Kalgoorlie?

    Bunbury to Kalgoorlie would nearly be 9 hours, who's going to do that trip?
  • savethegamesavethegame    756 posts
    Kane_26 said:

     The last point is in my opinion the most damning, RWWA offered the club a number of meetings to say farewell of which GMTC along with its committee and members pretty well said "stick it". At the end of the day the decision is final and whether you love or hate the decision it will no lt be changed.

    The feedback I am getting one person from the gmtc, alleged made all the  decisions without  trainers having any knowledge or input until  a text saying gmtc not getting any meetings received on Wednesday 28th march sent to trainers from  sec. will inform  after next committee meeting......burt and co. delivered the news Thursday 29th march.. To my way of thinking you
    certaintly don't treat people that have had licences for 30 to 40  years like they were lepers. Rwwa should have called in at least the trainers by post or e-mail to a special meeting to tell them of there fate total disgrace even if they never have another meeting kane ...

    Whats rwwa offered to help with.....turning it into training track,  trainers might like to jog up
    horses then send them to a city trainer , or compete at keller. or elsewhere...?
  • loose_gooseloose_goose    1,742 posts

    The same argument was used for the closure of Geraldton where it was stated at the time that 80% of the starters came from outside 200km.


    Conversely at the gallops 80% of the starters came from within 200km.
    How many local trainers in Albany ?
    Albany 2017 from a Racebook I still have from going when on holidays

    Local Trainers

    Peter Fairless (season)
    Ian Mulchay
    David Goulden (season)
    Matt Saw (season)
    David Johnston
    John Fagg
    Nathan Dymock
    Chris Playle
    Charles Draper
    Bob Poolman
    Colleen Kingston
    Kevin Machen
    Wes Andrews

    PackedMetalPanda, Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
    edited April 17
    Thanks LG ....the point I was trying to convey is that the primary distance argument used to shut down Geraldton and Kalgoorlie is also applicable to Albany. A downturn in nominations for Albany for any reason and " allakazam" they are also a memory.
    The list above actually shows less Albany resident trainers than Kalgoorlie.
    How many long term 8 to 10 hour round trip to Albany happy campers are there really ?
    In the US trainers move from track to track from state to state from season to season and it is a way of life. 
    The mere thought of that here sends people into a flat out headspin.
    A coordinated outer country circuit including Geraldton Kalgoorlie and Albany almost became a reality before the first domino fell....and Kal is the second.   
     @Kane_26....without DeCampo  P Anderson  Brennan  Turvey making semi regular trips to Albany this year they would have been borderline. Can you guarantee their ongoing support to Albany?
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    189 posts
    The bottom line is how much was Kal costing RWWA per meeting?

    Kane_26 likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
    edited April 17
    At least $4163.00 extra at one meeting.

    JayJay, Markovina likes this post.

  • MoonrakerMoonraker    22 posts

    I Agree - the death of Gero has lead to the death of Kal and its only a matter of time before Albany goes.

    The 3 tracks together covered enough of the year to support the gypsy trainers. recent ones I can think of are Inwood, Plozza and J Suvaljko.

    Sadly not any more

    curmudgeon, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    756 posts
    moonraker, always thought the same when gero went plus the period they stopped paying unplaced monies  which is vital to gypsy trainers survival.
     they each needed  15 meetings with two-three weeks break between each track, kalg albany gero,             dymocks  mulchay  done Albany, kalg,
    ,
    Have seen Kalgoorlie  become vital for hit and run raids over the years  when some top yards are having a lean trot..hall snr .c.brown. k.hawkins youngs,calagari padbergs  g.elliott  etc, things go bad now ..good luck...

    curmudgeon likes this post.

  • loose_gooseloose_goose    1,742 posts
    edited April 17

    Thanks LG ....the point I was trying to convey is that the primary distance argument used to shut down Geraldton and Kalgoorlie is also applicable to Albany. A downturn in nominations for Albany for any reason and " allakazam" they are also a memory.

    The list above actually shows less Albany resident trainers than Kalgoorlie.
    How many long term 8 to 10 hour round trip to Albany happy campers are there really ?
    In the US trainers move from track to track from state to state from season to season and it is a way of life. 
    The mere thought of that here sends people into a flat out headspin.
    A coordinated outer country circuit including Geraldton Kalgoorlie and Albany almost became a reality before the first domino fell....and Kal is the second.   
     @Kane_26....without DeCampo  P Anderson  Brennan  Turvey making semi regular trips to Albany this year they would have been borderline. Can you guarantee their ongoing support to Albany?
    I was not trying to make a point with that list was interested to know how many so hunted out the book. Re De Campo etc you are overlooking the many regulars who race at Albany, because other places eg Collie etc have limited meetings and are Albany regulars (obtained from said racebook again) because of this. Would be same for Goldfields trainers, if just a round racing was held, who puts a horse in work for just 3 starts. This is why most on below list go to Albany & travel it;s on it's available when other places Ie Busselton, Collie, Bridgetown are not

    Norm King
    Karen Wallrodt
    Amy Stone
    Dean Bielby
    Lang Inwood
    Brian Wheeler
    Wayne Justins
    G.Paganoni
    L.Mills
    L.Wallrodt
    Mick Callegari
    Ashleigh Markham
    K.Davies
    T.Flynn

    It is not about guaranteed support, whilst those meetings are on a $$$ up for grabs, it supply & demand, so if Albany is getting good fields & Kalgoorlie are not, then the Distance is the factor that has put Kalgoorlie harness in this position, whether we agree/like or not



    Kane_26, PackedMetalPanda likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    175 posts

    Thanks LG ....the point I was trying to convey is that the primary distance argument used to shut down Geraldton and Kalgoorlie is also applicable to Albany. A downturn in nominations for Albany for any reason and " allakazam" they are also a memory.

    The list above actually shows less Albany resident trainers than Kalgoorlie.
    How many long term 8 to 10 hour round trip to Albany happy campers are there really ?
    In the US trainers move from track to track from state to state from season to season and it is a way of life. 
    The mere thought of that here sends people into a flat out headspin.
    A coordinated outer country circuit including Geraldton Kalgoorlie and Albany almost became a reality before the first domino fell....and Kal is the second.   
     @Kane_26....without DeCampo  P Anderson  Brennan  Turvey making semi regular trips to Albany this year they would have been borderline. Can you guarantee their ongoing support to Albany?
    I was not trying to make a point with that list was interested to know how many so hunted out the book. Re De Campo etc you are overlooking the many regulars who race at Albany, because other places eg Collie etc have limited meetings and are Albany regulars (obtained from said racebook again) because of this. Would be same for Goldfields trainers, if just a round racing was held, who puts a horse in work for just 3 starts. This is why most on below list go to Albany & travel it;s on it's available when other places Ie Busselton, Collie, Bridgetown are not

    Norm King
    Karen Wallrodt
    Amy Stone
    Dean Bielby
    Lang Inwood
    Brian Wheeler
    Wayne Justins
    G.Paganoni
    L.Mills
    L.Wallrodt
    Mick Callegari
    Ashleigh Markham
    K.Davies
    T.Flynn

    It is not about guaranteed support, whilst those meetings are on a $$$ up for grabs, it supply & demand, so if Albany is getting good fields & Kalgoorlie are not, then the Distance is the factor that has put Kalgoorlie harness in this position, whether we agree/like or not






    You’ve spoken the most sense on this whole thread

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  • sonnysonny    531 posts
    Hi Kane , I would like to know the survey  numbers that were retuned  by the trainers. My guess is most probably didn't fill in the survey or return it..
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
    sonny said:

    Hi Kane , I would like to know the survey  numbers that were retuned  by the trainers. My guess is most probably didn't fill in the survey or return it..

    Now you have spoken the most sense on this whole thread Sonny =D>
  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    34 posts
    If they didn’t fill in the survey then don’t complain after the fact when you haven’t been able to have your say.

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    907 posts
    I think Sonny may be indicating that the oft quoted survey response as a justification for the eventual decision may in fact have been underwhelming PMP ...and you can twist stats to suit.
    Seventy five percent can just be 3 out of 4.
    Haven't seen any numbers published anywhere.

    sonny likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,371 posts
    I think for any survey to be valid, you need to know who was canvassed, how many were sent out, how many were returned  and so on.I have had a horse race at Kal last season but I don't know if owners were included and would there be any point is sending it to trainers and or drivers who have never been there. Selective surveying can produce any results you want. I am not in any way suggesting that this happened  but actual figures need to be public before any final judgement can be formed and or conclusions drawn.

    sonny, curmudgeon likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    531 posts
    Thanks JJ and Curmudgeon. I want to know numbers. They are basing their argument on numbers to scrap Kal.

    curmudgeon likes this post.

  • Kane_26Kane_26    28 posts
    @sonny if you ring Barry Hamilton tomorrow morning I'm sure he will give you the exact numbers. Everyone I've spoken to got and sent back the survey including owners but either not everyone got it, people are to lazy to respond or people can't read emails.
  • sonnysonny    531 posts
    Hi Kane why do I have to ring him . It should be made public..Why,is it a secret..??

    curmudgeon likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,371 posts
    I never got one ...and "everyone I've spoken to got and sent back the survey" is meaningless. Did you speak to 2 , 200 or 2000 people.....everyone I've spoken to didn't get one.......equally meaningless.

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  • Kane_26Kane_26    28 posts
    I don't know why the exact numbers haven't been made public, or exactly who the recipient list was - but if someone actually asked the question to RWWA rather than speculating I'm sure Barry would be happy to clarify the numbers.

    The numbers could easily be somewhere but I'm not sure where and I don't want to wrongly state Barry.
  • sonnysonny    531 posts
    Hi Kane, Have contacted Barry this morning and he was out. Left my nu. and e-mail for him to contact me. When I have the relevant info I will post .
  • loose_gooseloose_goose    1,742 posts
    edited April 18
    sonny said:

    Hi Kane why do I have to ring him . It should be made public..Why,is it a secret..??

    You should be asking RWWA that, not Kane

    EDIT: and reading your post above later, you have - Good work, now up to RWWA to respond
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    756 posts
    For what it is worth - i think Albany is as safe as a church - re their racing future - and there has been some logical reasons posted as to why its safe

    However re the Kal decision ( even though im in the camp that the distance is the killer ) i think public relations wise its been extremely poorly handled

    You contrast that to NSW - about 3-4 years ago - where they were in a Cobalt crisis ( ie Neil Day Dean McDowell Rodney Pike and plenty of others had been outed ) and there were rumours flying around everywhere

    So HRNSW got on the front foot - and said we are going to knock the rumours on the head - every Horse ( who competed in a race  for the next 3 mths) is going to be swabbed - and better still on our website - we are going to publish on our website all those cobalt individual readings ( which i used to read - and made very interesting reading - but thats another  story )

    Thus what the WATA - should have done - re Kal is on their website published - how many questionaires were sent out - what % were returned - and what the actual vote was ( and i find it most surprising that Jay Jay an owner of 4 horses - and a winner at Kalgoorlie - didnt receive a questionaire - seeing it would be a certainty that he would be billed/paying the fuel cost

    This nonsense - "  i will ask Barry " "Barry will tell us " what a blooody joke - publish the result on your Website

    JayJay, curmudgeon, sonny, savethegame, Betonme likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    531 posts
    Hi All,Barry returned my call (very approachable) .565 surveys sent out to various licensed persons and 129 were returned .22%. That my friends is apathy.  Most never raced a horse at the Golden Mile  so it doesn't affect them in the short term.I know they are busy and surveys take time but no excuse.

    Kane_26 likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,371 posts
    There are a couple of types of surveys...a census where ALL customers/clients/licensed personnel receive the survey....and there are sampling surveys where a random sample of your target group receive the survey. I can assume this was a sample only survey and it is important to know whether that was a random sample or a targeted sample as this would  seriously effect results and the subsequent conclusions that could be validly drawn.
    How the sample was circulated is also important....by traditional mail or email or whatever. Postal surveys attract the lowest responses whilst a return on email surveys of around 20 to 24% is the norm, so assuming it was email (I don't know as I was not included in the survey), a figure of 22% is not apathy, it sits well within the expected rate of return. Without knowing how the sample was selected (i.e. did it go to people who have never ever raced at Kalgoorlie?) it is hard to draw ANY conclusion. Without knowing what questions were asked (open ended versus a skewed bias) and without being shown an analytical response to each question, along with acceptable margins of error, and without knowing what conclusions were drawn, the numbers from Barry, and I appreciate that he supplied them, are meaningless and don't really enlighten us at all..Was the survey formulated "in house" or was a professional market research company engaged to conduct the process is another relevant question.

    curmudgeon likes this post.

  • Kane_26Kane_26    28 posts
    edited April 18
    Thank you very much for that @sonny, more responded then what I was initially led to believe. @JayJay the survey was e-mailed to every driver, trainer and owner who have supplied an email address with the current licence renewal's.

    So if you haven't received it then it may pay to ring RWWA to update your email details. I'll try and find the survey I sent in but there was only approximately five questions from memory and they were to do with if you hadn't raced horses in Kalgoorlie recently what was the main reason and what could Kalgoorlie do to get you to race there.

    I know the 11 trainers in Kalgoorlie didn't receive it as they would have no reason to answer those questions.
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