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New Handicapping System for the Trots

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    21 posts
    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts
    Albany fields struggling for numbers, doesn’t take much for Rwwa to shut down a country track. Albany relies on travelling trainers can’t help but wonder if people don’t want to travel knowing any horses with $ are going to draw wide

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,536 posts
    Chop Chop hit the nail on the head - and isnt great  great to hear a young trainer say what he actually said 

    Quote - "Gloucester Park being such an on pace bias track  " - there has never been a truer word said 

    And that is the problem - GP -all this complaining about barrier draws - well there has never been a bias track like GP in the history of trotting - and the proof  is in the pudding - you get an average MO - 2 horses of dead set equal ability - one draws gate 1 - its even money - the other one draws gate 9 - and thus is 100-1 

    Get rid of that 50 year old out of date goat track - and get a proper track  like Albion Park and Melton

    freodockers, Chopchop43 likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts
    Markovina said:

    Chop Chop hit the nail on the head - and isnt great  great to hear a young trainer say what he actually said 


    Quote - "Gloucester Park being such an on pace bias track  " - there has never been a truer word said 

    And that is the problem - GP -all this complaining about barrier draws - well there has never been a bias track like GP in the history of trotting - and the proof  is in the pudding - you get an average MO - 2 horses of dead set equal ability - one draws gate 1 - its even money - the other one draws gate 9 - and thus is 100-1 

    Get rid of that 50 year old out of date goat track - and get a proper track  like Albion Park and Melton



    Yeah coz there’s no leaders bias on those tracks :))

    JayJay, Gilgamesh, VillageKid, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    Markovina said:

    Chop Chop hit the nail on the head - and isnt great  great to hear a young trainer say what he actually said 


    Quote - "Gloucester Park being such an on pace bias track  " - there has never been a truer word said 

    And that is the problem - GP -all this complaining about barrier draws - well there has never been a bias track like GP in the history of trotting - and the proof  is in the pudding - you get an average MO - 2 horses of dead set equal ability - one draws gate 1 - its even money - the other one draws gate 9 - and thus is 100-1 

    Get rid of that 50 year old out of date goat track - and get a proper track  like Albion Park and Melton



    Yeah coz there’s no leaders bias on those tracks :))



    Exactly it’s a leader bias game.

    Not exactly a minor task reshaping the GP track either. Considering they can’t even fix the sprinklers there at the moment I wouldn’t be holding my breathe for a new track.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,536 posts

    Markovina said:

    Chop Chop hit the nail on the head - and isnt great  great to hear a young trainer say what he actually said 


    Quote - "Gloucester Park being such an on pace bias track  " - there has never been a truer word said 

    And that is the problem - GP -all this complaining about barrier draws - well there has never been a bias track like GP in the history of trotting - and the proof  is in the pudding - you get an average MO - 2 horses of dead set equal ability - one draws gate 1 - its even money - the other one draws gate 9 - and thus is 100-1 

    Get rid of that 50 year old out of date goat track - and get a proper track  like Albion Park and Melton



    Yeah coz there’s no leaders bias on those tracks :))
    No where to the extent of GP -its chalk and cheese - and anyone who looks at it fairly knows that - like Chop Chop 

    Chopchop43 likes this post.

  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    197 posts

    Albany fields struggling for numbers, doesn’t take much for Rwwa to shut down a country track. Albany relies on travelling trainers can’t help but wonder if people don’t want to travel knowing any horses with $ are going to draw wide

    That could be one of the possible contributing factors ,mind you if you have a half decent horse it would be more than competitive from any Barrier at Albany 
    It is also not easy traveling the distance and late night early morning home every week ,unless big stables set up satellite stables to race there every week the travel takes its toll  
    why they arent extending noms and notifying industry what races are short is puzzling they should be doing everything in their power to be able to Maximise Fields 
    In Saying that while I type this Just received a text saying 
    Acceptances have been extended for GP 19/1 till 12.30pm Today on All Races 

    Gilgamesh, Rocket_Reign, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    Albany fields struggling for numbers, doesn’t take much for Rwwa to shut down a country track. Albany relies on travelling trainers can’t help but wonder if people don’t want to travel knowing any horses with $ are going to draw wide




    3 of the winners came from draws 1,2,3/7,8 last week compared to 5 coming from 4/9 or wider so if that is the reason then maybe they need to reassess.

    I tend to agree with Aussie it would be a bloody taxing day so something has to give and it is skip the road trip.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts

    Albany fields struggling for numbers, doesn’t take much for Rwwa to shut down a country track. Albany relies on travelling trainers can’t help but wonder if people don’t want to travel knowing any horses with $ are going to draw wide

    That could be one of the possible contributing factors ,mind you if you have a half decent horse it would be more than competitive from any Barrier at Albany 
    It is also not easy traveling the distance and late night early morning home every week ,unless big stables set up satellite stables to race there every week the travel takes its toll  
    why they arent extending noms and notifying industry what races are short is puzzling they should be doing everything in their power to be able to Maximise Fields 
    In Saying that while I type this Just received a text saying 
    Acceptances have been extended for GP 19/1 till 12.30pm Today on All Races 




    Personally for me knowing I’m guaranteed to draw wide would put me off the 10 hour round trip, also can’t believe they didn’t extend the noms for the meeting

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    21 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    well with the introduction of blind nominations I won't know what I could possibly be racing against for the foreseeable future which complicates the matter of placing your horse in a suitable race even further. The point I guess km trying to make is if we are going to give the lesser horses in the race or a horse that's simply out a of form a leg up in a race why can't we possibly make it fair on everyone and rotate between the $l3 and rbd week to week at each meeting to give everyone an equal opportunity to draw a good gate over a prolonged period of time ? Opinions are like backsides everyone has one but I seriously think the higher ups have jumped the gun by jamming the $l3 down our throats for the time being, I think you would find the majority of trainers I'm the industry will cop a bad barrier on the chin if it's rbd and they are just plain unlucky

    Gilgamesh, freodockers likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    Gilgamesh said:

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    well with the introduction of blind nominations I won't know what I could possibly be racing against for the foreseeable future which complicates the matter of placing your horse in a suitable race even further. The point I guess km trying to make is if we are going to give the lesser horses in the race or a horse that's simply out a of form a leg up in a race why can't we possibly make it fair on everyone and rotate between the $l3 and rbd week to week at each meeting to give everyone an equal opportunity to draw a good gate over a prolonged period of time ? Opinions are like backsides everyone has one but I seriously think the higher ups have jumped the gun by jamming the $l3 down our throats for the time being, I think you would find the majority of trainers I'm the industry will cop a bad barrier on the chin if it's rbd and they are just plain unlucky



    Absolutely I don’t disagree with you that there needs to be a mix and as I said earlier you might find with a mix even knowing you are going to draw wide the $L3 might still be an easier option as you are likely to hit the majority of the out of form horses while the inform horses throw their nom in the RBD trying to lob a draw.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    Gilgamesh said:

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    well with the introduction of blind nominations I won't know what I could possibly be racing against for the foreseeable future which complicates the matter of placing your horse in a suitable race even further. The point I guess km trying to make is if we are going to give the lesser horses in the race or a horse that's simply out a of form a leg up in a race why can't we possibly make it fair on everyone and rotate between the $l3 and rbd week to week at each meeting to give everyone an equal opportunity to draw a good gate over a prolonged period of time ? Opinions are like backsides everyone has one but I seriously think the higher ups have jumped the gun by jamming the $l3 down our throats for the time being, I think you would find the majority of trainers I'm the industry will cop a bad barrier on the chin if it's rbd and they are just plain unlucky



    Just as an aside as a small time punter and pretty much non participant nowadays my view (which clearly has less weight than those putting their money/time where their mouth is) is that as you have said trainers are happy to just cop a bad draw on the chin and that is exactly what they were doing, waiting for another day because they know the horses drawn under them have equal to if not more ability, they can’t beat them unless someone does something stupid so they drive ice cold and wait for another day. It has led to boring as batshit uncompetitive racing giving very few opportunities for punters to actually form an opinion different to others and back themselves in let alone want to introduce others to the sport as a spectacle.

    Now I know you feel this system just encourages people to basically drive dead for 3 starts. IMO it creates competition, connections are actually having to think about what they do out on the track, will horse x hand up because he is out of form or will he try to hold up, he has LB Harper on so is likely to go forward etc etc. There is no need for ridiculous sectional time fines because leads aren’t decided on paper, drivers are making moves with their inform horses. It should create competition.

    Ramming it down everyone’s throat with no alternative probably wasn’t the right way to go about it but unless people in the future are keen to race for ribbons in front of a handful of friends and family something had to give.
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    21 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    well with the introduction of blind nominations I won't know what I could possibly be racing against for the foreseeable future which complicates the matter of placing your horse in a suitable race even further. The point I guess km trying to make is if we are going to give the lesser horses in the race or a horse that's simply out a of form a leg up in a race why can't we possibly make it fair on everyone and rotate between the $l3 and rbd week to week at each meeting to give everyone an equal opportunity to draw a good gate over a prolonged period of time ? Opinions are like backsides everyone has one but I seriously think the higher ups have jumped the gun by jamming the $l3 down our throats for the time being, I think you would find the majority of trainers I'm the industry will cop a bad barrier on the chin if it's rbd and they are just plain unlucky



    Just as an aside as a small time punter and pretty much non participant nowadays my view (which clearly has less weight than those putting their money/time where their mouth is) is that as you have said trainers are happy to just cop a bad draw on the chin and that is exactly what they were doing, waiting for another day because they know the horses drawn under them have equal to if not more ability, they can’t beat them unless someone does something stupid so they drive ice cold and wait for another day. It has led to boring as batshit uncompetitive racing giving very few opportunities for punters to actually form an opinion different to others and back themselves in let alone want to introduce others to the sport as a spectacle.

    Now I know you feel this system just encourages people to basically drive dead for 3 starts. IMO it creates competition, connections are actually having to think about what they do out on the track, will horse x hand up because he is out of form or will he try to hold up, he has LB Harper on so is likely to go forward etc etc. There is no need for ridiculous sectional time fines because leads aren’t decided on paper, drivers are making moves with their inform horses. It should create competition.

    Ramming it down everyone’s throat with no alternative probably wasn’t the right way to go about it but unless people in the future are keen to race for ribbons in front of a handful of friends and family something had to give.

    look I agree that something has to give , but if the decision makers were smart, they should of reached out to the participants for any opinions or ideas to help turn trotting around in this state rather than make knee jerk reactions, which seem to be common place at the moment. Gloucester park had 9 races last Friday, this Friday we seem to have a fair few fields without max numbers, I know we have the heats of nights of thunder which from memory were only.9 horse fields as it was but 3x7 horse heats for such a time honored race is a bit disturbing, not to mention we now have extended noms for Tuesday's meeting which I would say would be due to lack of horses nominated, the decision makers really need to sit down and attempt to figure out how to reverse what's becoming a worrying trend
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    21 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    I have a ton of faith in my horses ability curmudgeon, I'm just a realist about the fact that if my horse was to draw the river for the next 3 starts the chances of me earning are extremely slim around gp, unless we are willing to just launch for those 3 starts and during summer, you are running the risk of absolutely flattening your horse with those sort of tactics, so essentially for me to earn and still have a horse at the end of it , what do you do ? Treat those 3 runs as track work just to draw a gate? That would be infact rewarding my horse for having mediocre form, which seems crazy to me but what other options do we have ? I just think it's such a short sighted idea to make every single race this format, some of the decision making from the higher ups reaks of attempted band aid solutions to patch up a fledgling handicapping system that the participants and punters do not support, proofs in the amount of horses being sold over east and to the states




    You have to put your hat in the ring mate. I think you will find that if you do in fact draw wide (never know what else will be in the race) chances are the horses drawn under you aren’t there because they were A-unlucky their last 3 starts or B-given soft runs they will be there because they aren’t going any good.

    So then you can assess A-all of these under me are likely to want a soft trip on the back of an inform horse or B- these horses/drivers are every chance of chopping themselves up and I can just dive bomb them.

    If racing is actually racing you will still be competing with without cooking your horse.

    well with the introduction of blind nominations I won't know what I could possibly be racing against for the foreseeable future which complicates the matter of placing your horse in a suitable race even further. The point I guess km trying to make is if we are going to give the lesser horses in the race or a horse that's simply out a of form a leg up in a race why can't we possibly make it fair on everyone and rotate between the $l3 and rbd week to week at each meeting to give everyone an equal opportunity to draw a good gate over a prolonged period of time ? Opinions are like backsides everyone has one but I seriously think the higher ups have jumped the gun by jamming the $l3 down our throats for the time being, I think you would find the majority of trainers I'm the industry will cop a bad barrier on the chin if it's rbd and they are just plain unlucky



    Absolutely I don’t disagree with you that there needs to be a mix and as I said earlier you might find with a mix even knowing you are going to draw wide the $L3 might still be an easier option as you are likely to hit the majority of the out of form horses while the inform horses throw their nom in the RBD trying to lob a draw.

    there are going to be times where $l3 will suit a horse and times where rbd will suit, at least by giving us the option it puts us in a position to earn and pay our bills
  • RoyboyRoyboy    7 posts
    Problem fixed programming has been changed!

    Cant_Refuse, curmudgeon likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts
    Royboy said:

    Problem fixed programming has been changed!




    Great news
  • Browny123Browny123    96 posts
    Credit where credit is due..great call by them.Now come into the modern ages and get rid of the blind noms.

    curmudgeon, JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,093 posts
    What a dogs breakfast of on the run application of bandaids, you couldn't make it up. Needs to be a Parliamentary inquiry in my view, it is chaotic. How can you possibly plan a horses programme?

    freodockers, Chopchop43 likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,120 posts
    There have been many on here calling for PBDs since HWOE came into place and I am surprised that their views are not being expressed now that they are being removed.

    I have always been of the belief that PBDs are essential to provide even fields and competitive racing but the key was always going to be the conditions used to determine the barrier draws.

    $L3 appears to be the main contention and this knee jerk reaction has thrown the baby out with the bath water.

    Oh well back to a plethora of $1.20 or less favourites and miserly exotic dividends for punters to get their teeth into.

    I am being provocative here and will no doubt draw scathing criticism but what the participants want is not always good for the industry.

    VillageKid, JayJay, Gilgamesh, freodockers likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,536 posts
    Your right Chariots - re your last sentence - and Trots people love to have a whinge - it is like a hobby to some - you could make every race a million bucks - and they would still whinge about something 

    Ive said it before re the handicapping - the difference in NSW and Vic - they have a stack more tracks - meetings and horses - and low class can race against each other . Like over here with Albany - DeCampo Howlett - Ferguson  ( not criticising them at all ) enter smart horses - start $1.12  and dominate . But in NSW and Vic - because of extra meetings/horses - the Penola Girls race against the Penola  Girls 

    Look at that horse of Jay Jays - Glens of Tekoa - went to Syd - did ok at the start - against weak oppo - then lost all form whatsoever - getting beat 60 metres at Canberra- couldnt get out of its way  . Then the horse was sold - and last night ran 2nd at Kilmore at $1.70  - 4.5k race - terrible field - but this is the big difference - in that field there was no smart ex nz - Aiden De  Campo  horse - otherwise it would have got annihilated - and would have started at about 30 to 1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts

    There have been many on here calling for PBDs since HWOE came into place and I am surprised that their views are not being expressed now that they are being removed.


    I have always been of the belief that PBDs are essential to provide even fields and competitive racing but the key was always going to be the conditions used to determine the barrier draws.

    $L3 appears to be the main contention and this knee jerk reaction has thrown the baby out with the bath water.

    Oh well back to a plethora of $1.20 or less favourites and miserly exotic dividends for punters to get their teeth into.

    I am being provocative here and will no doubt draw scathing criticism but what the participants want is not always good for the industry.



    No participants no industry, we need to be able to make a living off it heavily handicapping horses that are consistent without even having winning form is not how we can make a consistent living. Also from my perspective on punting I like predictability short priced favourites creates that predictability

    Chopchop43 likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,907 posts
    edited January 15
    No good ordering a taxi when a bus is required to carry the crowd.
    PBD should have been invoked using HWOE & Level .....I am amazed that the set cornerstones of the field selection system weren't used as the handicapping tool. The blanket $L3 had too many predictable anomalies.

    Chopchop43, VillageKid likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,001 posts
    Maybe just maybe finally since mid eighties harness people are squealing together, instead about just there individual horse needs, Think last big squeal  when  a move was underway for same ten drivers and two emg.allowed to drive at G.P.--United you stand--- divided you fall.

    Now to regain the punters  confidence ,thats going to be a bit harder. But slowly can be done.The tricks stick out like if you were,  tracking a elephant with a blood nose in the snow.--- its your industry.

    Tail wagging the dog--- NO. PUNTERS. no industry--

    VillageKid, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,093 posts
    2 weeks of $L3 apparently constitutes a trial???? The squeaky wheel quickly got an application of Castrol. Unbelievable......and owners find out about the change via this forum?

    For over two years, since the imposition of HWOE as the basis of handicapping, harness racing has been sponsored by Johnson and Johnson, as bandaid after bandaid after bandaid has been applied. Initially, we were told trial it for for 3 months, the National Ratings System as adopted by every other state is to be avoided at all costs, treat it as you would an angry Taipan.  Give the new system a chance to settle in, don't be negative, get better, not bitter and all the associated flannel that was constantly trotted out to anyone daring to express reservations. Meetings were held, assurances were given......with hindsight, an exercise of total futility from my perspective.   Then 6 months, then 12 months, now 2 years on and we have gone from almost exclusive RBD to the senseless Group PBD, then PBD $L2, then PBD L, then PBD $L3, Levels have appeared, to go glove in hand with HWOE to "simplify" matters, now it is back to RBD (with some PBD L). Roll on very short priced favourites and more predictable racing.

    We were promised data....on turnover, number of short priced favourites, horse population etc etc. Instead, we got "health of the industry" scorecards with selective data ....and only very occasional ones at that. We got rid of the handicappers position, we changed Harness Racing Managers, we even got a new mobile that has been conspicuous by its absence, the Chief Steward Harness Racing position disappeared.......and in spite of denials to the contrary, horses have continued to leave the system in droves to both the Eastern States and North America, (Captain Kirk, Don't Change and Join The Que the last 3 that I noticed).

    I am devastated by what has happened to my beloved industry....what was once the 4th most popular sport in the state has been progressively reduced to a cottage industry for the majority of participants. It requires investigation from the highest levels. At least Busso will have a crowd tonight, which I am betting will dwarf the attendance at the prime venue. Maybe I'll even be able to convince some new entrants into the sport.........
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,120 posts
    Let us back up the truck and see where things started to go wrong.

    After 10 years of solid growth under RWWA there was one single occurrence where it went pear shaped and the turnover growth was switched off. That was the introduction of single class racing with RBDs to appease the big stables, or at least one, in almost sycophantic fashion.

    RWWA has been tinkering with a remedy ever since without success and we appear to be going around in circles.

    The same amount of stake money is distributed each week and I can't see that apportioning that money to a wider range of participants is necessarily a bad thing but obviously many disagree.

    Rest assured if we do not arrest the turnover decline the industry will suffer long term, particularly if the TAB is ever sold.

    Gilgamesh, VillageKid, JayJay likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts

    There have been many on here calling for PBDs since HWOE came into place and I am surprised that their views are not being expressed now that they are being removed.


    I have always been of the belief that PBDs are essential to provide even fields and competitive racing but the key was always going to be the conditions used to determine the barrier draws.

    $L3 appears to be the main contention and this knee jerk reaction has thrown the baby out with the bath water.

    Oh well back to a plethora of $1.20 or less favourites and miserly exotic dividends for punters to get their teeth into.

    I am being provocative here and will no doubt draw scathing criticism but what the participants want is not always good for the industry.



    No participants no industry, we need to be able to make a living off it heavily handicapping horses that are consistent without even having winning form is not how we can make a consistent living. Also from my perspective on punting I like predictability short priced favourites creates that predictability



    But how are you going to make a living off it if no one is punting on it?

    VillageKid, savethegame likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,555 posts
    If you listened in to the preview this morning you got to hear the benefits of the handicapping. Majority of races with multiple race scenarios, differing opinions, something to actually talk about and markets where it is actually worth while forming your own opinion.

    VillageKid, Chariotsonfire likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    409 posts

    Let us back up the truck and see where things started to go wrong.


    After 10 years of solid growth under RWWA there was one single occurrence where it went pear shaped and the turnover growth was switched off. That was the introduction of single class racing with RBDs to appease the big stables, or at least one, in almost sycophantic fashion.

    RWWA has been tinkering with a remedy ever since without success and we appear to be going around in circles.

    The same amount of stake money is distributed each week and I can't see that apportioning that money to a wider range of participants is necessarily a bad thing but obviously many disagree.

    Rest assured if we do not arrest the turnover decline the industry will suffer long term, particularly if the TAB is ever sold.



    Why should there be a system in place to make sure the prize money is spread around? The worst AFL players don’t get paid as much as the best players don’t see them changing the rules to make life easier for the bad players. Those bad players can strive to be better and earn more money though
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,120 posts
    As I stated Rocket many will disagree but that is why they use weights in the Thoroughbreds.

    A mixture of the two eg Melbourne Cup and Cox Plate has borne the test of time with constant increases in turnover.

    VillageKid, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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