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Whip rule... why bother?

West Australian Racing
So Pike wins the 2yo MM race with 2 additional hits of the whip before the 100m mark. Just gets up in the last few strides. Big chance it doesn't wind up enough if he sticks to the rules. Might get a couple hundred dollar fine but they get to keep the huge prizemoney. Why bother with the rule at all? Doesn't make it a fair game
+1 -1

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Comments

  • FlandersFlanders    314 posts
    Add the 3yo MM winner to the list as well. Jarrad Noske did the same
  • GaryHGaryH    1,006 posts
    I just finished watching the three year old race.........  Didn't bother counting the winners strikes, but he was going for it a long way out.  Maybe 'backhand'?   :-B
  • FlandersFlanders    314 posts
    Yeah and Noske just got back from suspension for the same offence I'm pretty sure
  • FlandersFlanders    314 posts
    I see there was a protest in the last at Bunbury today relating to the whip rule. Alan Kennedy wins narrowly, gets suspended for a week but the protest was dismissed. Check out the replay on CRIS, it has the head-on as well, unusually. The bloke clearly didn't give a single fark and whipped like it was 20 years ago.
    This was the stewards chance to make a stand but they didn't. Big farking deal suspending him for a week, he doesn't get that many rides anyway so what's the penalty? Take the bloody race off him and they'll all take notice.

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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    7,485 posts
    Completely agree. The rule is a farce. Disqualification in my opinion penalises everyone involved which mightn't be the fairest option...who knows what the riding instructions are by connections.....jockey the one out there though. Buck has to stop somewhere. Suspensions too light to be a deterrent to stop. No impact in my opinion.

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  • RIORIO    14,124 posts
    Flanders said:

    I see there was a protest in the last at Bunbury today relating to the whip rule. Alan Kennedy wins narrowly, gets suspended for a week but the protest was dismissed. Check out the replay on CRIS, it has the head-on as well, unusually. The bloke clearly didn't give a single **** and whipped like it was 20 years ago.
    This was the stewards chance to make a stand but they didn't. Big farking deal suspending him for a week, he doesn't get that many rides anyway so what's the penalty? Take the bloody race off him and they'll all take notice.



    Its the one thing about the rule i never understand. Found guilty of a rule breach and protest dismissed!?!??!?!?! I the protest is dismissed, then he should cop no penalty....If he cops a penalty for a rule breach then surely the protest has to be upheld.

    Pathetic outcome

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  • spinkingspinking    2,232 posts
    I didn't realise there was a protest. Had my last $50 on the second horse as well . Was watching on TVs and as they hit the line don't see it that good as shadows cover the winning line. Saw it good enough to know ran second though but now seen this. Throw the rule out because it's never going to be enforced enough for any jock to take notice as proven once again yesterday
  • paraleticparaletic    3,230 posts
    edited March 11
    Joke of a rule. It is just there to please the do gooders. It has absolutely no substance when tested in a protest so lets all forget about it and issue our own rules to the jockeys - whip it as many times as it needs to win. It will never be upheld in a protest. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

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  • TheDivaTheDiva    11,727 posts
    has there ever been one upheld in Australia? 
    if not... I cant ever see it happening. 

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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,248 posts
    TheDiva said:

    has there ever been one upheld in Australia? 

    if not... I cant ever see it happening. 
    Yes, one I know of at the Sunshine Coast a few months after the rule was brought in. 

    I can't remember what happened five minutes ago, let alone what the race was. The only reason I recall it at all, was because I was on the winner who was ultimately relegated to second. I think a female jockey rode my horse, but then again, not too sure of that either.

    But it definitely happened.

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  • tonytony    1,835 posts
    As far as suspending the jockey but not upholding the protest they are two different things.

    If the jockey broke the rules then he is penalised, in this case suspended, but in order to uphold the protest the stewards must be satisfied the result was affected.

    Exactly the same thing happens occasionally with interference where the stewards rule the jockey infringed and issues a penalty but does not uphold the protest.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,236 posts
    edited March 11
    Quite right Bookie and Tony too. From what know of there's been perhaps 2 was thinking been upheld, was leaning 2 or even 3 Australia wide - but could be just the one and that was definitely in Queensland.

    Several more though have been lodged, with more whereby perhaps should have been a protest but let go through to the keeper.

    Maybe an unwritten rule with hoops not to protest ? A little like the "mankad" in cricket. However occasionally a hoop thinks he got a case and rightly so. The bowler in cricket had a gutful of the batsman backing up. A loose comparison - but enough is enough! There are rules!

    As said before if ever lost a decent bet because of the whip rule and the protest being upheld that'd be my last bet ( not such a bad thing ) but if ever gained a result through a excessive whip protest would be celebrating deep into the night!

    Stewards seem reticent to uphold them - reason given as Tony stated above. Still think it's a grey area just the same.

    It'd be a rotten way to lose a race, but then again......
  • FlandersFlanders    314 posts
    Personally I think that after that Railway Stakes protest being upheld a few years back, the stewards here are too scared to uphold protests for fear of the scrutiny that comes with it. It just means that fairness suffers if this is the case.
    As I stated above, yesterday was their big chance to make a stance. Missed opportunity me thinks.
    I'd rather have them aggressively policing the game and have participants being cautious, than allowing them to push the boundaries as they do now, because the penalty being dished out is of no concern to them.
  • spinkingspinking    2,232 posts

    Okay could cop it if the margin was say half a length. But 1/2 head is getting to close for the stewards to make a call as to whether it affected the result. Maybe to take away the grey area obviously associated with this rule, if the margin is a head or less and the second rider protests against the winner and he is done for using the whip to much the protest is upheld

  • RodentRodent    4,992 posts
    Whip rule is only there to appease activists. Stick to fines/suspensions. If you don't like the current set up then lobby for stiffer penalties for the jockeys. I would prefer races to be decided on the track. Keep the stewards out of the result determination as much as possible.
  • GepettoGepetto    99 posts

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,236 posts
    edited March 11
    Six times more than the law allows - so that's eleven times all up ? Margin a head and that makes no difference ?
    Or is that six just one more than the allocated five ?
  • RIORIO    14,124 posts
    i read it as 6 extra times above and beyond allowances...So take the whips off them if they make no difference... If i was a tree hugging Vegan i'd be using this as evidence that there is no need for whips in this industry

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,236 posts
    edited March 11
    My interpretation was six times more too - but not in that short of distance between the 150 and 100 ? Must have been only more "whack" ?
    Doesn't take much to confuse me.

    In this case it was the trainer who noticed and protested, he must have been seething - before and afterwards - hoops, trainers and even owners have every right to protest ?

    Never want to see a horse to lose a race because of the whip rule but you guys favouring upheld make a bloody good point.
  • RIORIO    14,124 posts
    edited March 11
    Yes, they can all protest...The stewards can also put in a protest to be heard before all clear if they feel something has happened...should quantify that FROM MEMORY haha

    It happened behind Mitch, so there is no way he coudl have seen it

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,236 posts
    edited March 11
    Was just thinking about that the other day - yes the good old stewards protest - if you're ticket is a collect just slowly head to the bin or try to sell it for a tenth of the payout.

    Stewards protests very rarely dismissed. Racing or pacing it's the last thing as a punter you want to hear,yet the rest of the "gang"...jockey,trainer etc saw nothing in it. Can never quite fathom that.

    As a punter would much rather have a hoop protest or trainer, owner than stewards - it's the kiss of death.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,236 posts
    edited March 11
    The other part of the stewards report - yes did notice watching live on the screen the bumping going on with Elegant Blast, didn't realise He's A Parker was the other horse involved.

    Whilst not serious - thought at the time there's no room for the feint hearted out there. They do have guts and deserve every cent they get.

    The other thing didn't realise until late was the Bunbury Cup yesterday was 2000 metres a change from the 2200 metres ?
  • detonatordetonator    1,846 posts
    Speaking of stewards report...... Come Play with Me raced wide from the 800m.
    What it should have read was it was 6 wide and last at the 800m. Rounding the turn was 10 wide and last and at the top of the straight was 12 wide and second last. WTF.
    Considering it jumped on terms with the rest of the field and allowed to drop back the ride was 0 out of 10.

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  • britbratbritbrat    82 posts
    Completely agree Dets..Someone shouda told knuckey it's a 2000 metre race now back from 2200 and if you get back to last and come around the world the only happy people will be the Bookies..
    Oh hang on

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  • FlandersFlanders    314 posts
    Wowee. Doesn't seem like that long ago that this was a topic... wait, it wasn't long ago. Another big race and the horse that was allowed to be whipped more than every other runner wins. How can it NOT BE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE? Yet the stewards either don't want to lodge a protest or won't uphold one! It clearly is an advantage and results are being affected by this.
    For what its worth, I highly rate Jarrad Noske but for this part of his repertoire I'm off him.
  • ArloArlo    121 posts
    yep it's a great system, you can break the rules and still win. The penalties have no impact whatsoever!
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    7,485 posts
    It's an absolute joke. Why was there no stewards protest? Jockeys would have been briefed beforehand as well so no excuse.
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    7,485 posts
    2500 fine and 14 days.

    It should be 25000 and 3 months. That would deter a few

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  • RIORIO    14,124 posts
    If he got a $1 fine that is proof that he was outside the rules of racing......To then win is just unfair on all the others that played by the rules.

    And that is whether the margin is a nose or 2 lengths. And we wonder why we are continually targeted by animal activists!!!

    It'd be good to organise a race where every jock started using their whips coming onto the straight and didn't stop until after the line, just to highlight how pathetic the stewards are!!
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,032 posts
    No whips carried won't be far away
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