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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    JayJay said:

    Old Tavis, he loved the August Cup, won 2 in a row back in the 70's for Bob Johnson and then ran 2nd the next two years...to Peter Anstey and Virgil Queen 
    Tavis don't think he was that well bred,by david Stanton out girl guide,tavis means son of david jay jay interest to read your views regards his breeding.

    Stand corrected think rod evans was on radio station regards preview of g.p.?  To coincide with the queens visit mid-late seventies, big prizemoney race queens cup? a lot more then were racing for in that era,Was told tavis would just win,pretty sure rod evans said theres no better trainer then r.w. Johnson to have a horse at its peak for a big race, it was home and hosed one of the godeckes bill,bob?, horse memory going  think fastease? grabbed it in the shadows of the post.

    Was a very  good winter horse , got told when he was going to run above and beyond,another night think he won from 40m at Richmond raceway, 

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Old Whitty bred Tavis up at that breeding stronghold of Merredin STG.....he should be in the Hall of Fame old Bill but few at RWWA can probably recall just what a contribution he made. Not terribly bred ....by David Stanton who was by Stanton Hal out of a Raider mare bred by Norm Duncan, so some decent blood even if Tavis was one of only 2 winners sired by David Stanton. Girl Guide was a pretty good mare, not only Tavis but also a good mare called Guides Creed, raced by old Bob Groves (father of Laurie) and trained by Ken Tyler Senior, won quite a few races. Girl Guide was out of Driffield, dam of prolific winner Garry John and a nice horse called Gold Jay. All those "Doe" horses...Julian Doe. John Doe etc that Bill duffy bred are also in the family, so Tavis was no fluke.

    Nothing wrong with your memory,  March, 1977 the Queen Elizabeth II Cup.....$35,000 was a good purse, Mrs Windsor was actually present (Silver Jubilee tour and Albany 150 year sesquicentennial celebration) and all the drivers were introduced to her pre race. Les Poyser had two runners, one of which was Little William, perhaps a pointer to the future King should old Big Ears not last the distance. His other runner was Ala Moana who ran 2nd for Laurie Robinson, Little William finishing midfield. Winner was Fastease for Bob Godecke who famously dropped the trophy on the track as it was being presented to him. Tavis was unplaced.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Bob also asked the Duke to hang onto his whip and helmet when he accepted the trophy but still dropped it with his hands free.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Thanks jay jay;; would of went to the box,re queens cup thinking tavis had run second now to do the research re-fastease grabing him in the shadows of post of a cup race, gee time & medication  leds to confusion, what happened 42years ago.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Bit of history on Tavis and some great names pop up:
    1975 August Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Forward step 3rd Typhson
    1975 Bunbury Cup 1st Blue Rebel 2nd Tavis 3rd Red Ideal
    1975 Winter Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Stitchintime 3rd Royal Force
    1976 August Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Young Robbie 3rd Farmer Elect
    1976 Memorial Day Stakes 1st Parking 2nd Top Byrd 3rd Tavis
    1976 Tatts Cup 1st Tulyar Prince 2nd Tavis 3rd Top Byrd
    1976 Lord Mayors Cup 1st Maroubra Star 2nd Tavis 3rd deadheat Stitchintime Rangeview
    1977 August Cup 1st peter anstey 2nd Tavis 3rd Anna's Ann
    1977 George Booth Memorial  1st Rare Chief 2nd Aboukir 3rd Tavis
    *1977 Memorial Day Cup 1st Fastease 2nd Another Eden 3rd Tavis
    1978 August Cup 1st Virgil Queen 2nd Tavis 3rd Young Robbie
    1978 Navy Cup 1st Maid Aachen 2nd Tavis 3rd Johnny Toledo

    *Might be the one

    Plus he won some FFA's as well but placegetters hard to locate. Best I can come up with.

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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts

    Bookielover just out of curiosity - would your father overall have profited from odds on favourite's...how did you guys "attack" odds on faves ? Were they very profitable in the long run ? There's 3000 quid in front above.

    From reading their were some huge odds on punters around those days and later too, one that made the paper's here at the time was ''the fireman".

    Hi Markovina,
    I can't give you a definitive answer on that one. While won a lot of money taking on favourites, especially odds on chances, he lost probably just as much on horses like Manikato. he would have lost $200,000 on Manikato's William Reid Stakes wins alone.

    i do recall one day at Sandown. a horse ridden by Roy Higgins called Stainvita. it was 1/4 on my old man got 30,000 out of it. It came around the turn over 1000 metres there, at least 5 in front, then suddenly veered to the outside fence, and broke down. That was a good day for us, unfortunately not for the horse.

    Another big win  that I recall very well, was the Australian cup around 1986 I think, with Bone Crusher and Vo rogue in the race, and a horse called Dandy Andy at 33/1 won the race.

    My old man thought the wet track might bring them both undone. That was  one of the few times he was right. He was first up on his stand for the only time ever,  and even beat bookie Alf Blamey who always put the prices up first, and got stuck into both and got over 100,000 out of them. We ate well that night!!

    I was there when Eddie Birchley, the fireman put 200,000  cash on Caboul at 1/6 when it won at Flemington.

    Had Eddie stuck to backing odds on favourites in the Melbourne ring, he still would have ultimately gone bust, but would have lasted longer.

    But it wasn't enough for him so he went to Sydney and took on the likes of Terry Page and Big Bill.  Hard to believe I know but they cleaned him out.
    ;)

    Bottom line is this. Punters who back shorties are doomed to go broke.

    What beat the bookies like my old man, was the 2.25% turnover tax, which they paid on their turnover, win lose or draw. Had my farther and the other bookies not have had to pay that, they really would all have finished up multi- millionaires.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    JayJay said:

    tBit of history on Tavis and some great names pop up:
    1975 August Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Forward step 3rd Typhson
    1975 Bunbury Cup 1st Blue Rebel 2nd Tavis 3rd Red Ideal
    1975 Winter Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Stitchintime 3rd Royal Force
    1976 August Cup 1st Tavis 2nd Young Robbie 3rd Farmer Elect
    1976 Memorial Day Stakes 1st Parking 2nd Top Byrd 3rd Tavis
    1976 Tatts Cup 1st Tulyar Prince 2nd Tavis 3rd Top Byrd
    1976 Lord Mayors Cup 1st Maroubra Star 2nd Tavis 3rd deadheat Stitchintime Rangeview
    1977 August Cup 1st peter anstey 2nd Tavis 3rd Anna's Ann
    1977 George Booth Memorial  1st Rare Chief 2nd Aboukir 3rd Tavis
    *1977 Memorial Day Cup 1st Fastease 2nd Another Eden 3rd Tavis
    1978 August Cup 1st Virgil Queen 2nd Tavis 3rd Young Robbie
    1978 Navy Cup 1st Maid Aachen 2nd Tavis 3rd Johnny Toledo

    *Might be the one

    Plus he won some FFA's as well but placegetters hard to locate. Best I can come up with.
    Thanks jay jay was one of my favourite horses of that era,will go and check but think he won his first three starts to qualify for city racing. He start racing as a four year old? then 12or 13 places in a row and max johson  won his qualie, another couple horses I liked johnny Toledo, zaruma
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    STG, when following up Tavis's pedigree the other day, the horse Gold Jay jumped off the page at me. Bugged me since then, and then driving back from Wagin last night, dodging Roos (unsuccessfully....again), the penny dropped I think. Chestnut horse, plain  Red Colours, a rather large gentleman in the sulky.....who was it, who was it? I think it was a bloke called Ron Percy? Do you recall him. Anyway, the horse was very good and may have even won towing Big Ron around but one night, they put L.J.Robinson on him.....this is years ago.....I went yes, the horse went an even bigger yes and the payout clerk filled my pockets ....with I think about $140 ....which for a tall kid betting illegally when in about year 9, was a fortune. I think Ron Percy had a brother also involved in the game, a Keith Percy.....and maybe, just maybe, Ron had a used car yard in Vic Park.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Do remember a percy driving his side view resembled a bath plug, may have had a grey can't remember was it any good ?. But funny things you remember at the trots as a kid .There was a driver by the name of reg ridley, who had chestnut and another horse called jubilee jane

    ,Sure it was the chestnut would get out and lead by 40-50metres reg had a huge family and friends as supporters and they would gather at the same spot every week any where between 10-30 people screaming for this horse at the bell virtually all screaming to nights the night, at the 400, your not done yet,by the home straight she would be gobbled up run closer to last;;;,next week was allways there parting words. Mount Eden raced at one these rounds 1969, but never could remember him being there, only two horses winning can remember, horse called good Friday winning two on same night that mount eden won his first race, how ironic( have checked), standing in front of presentation of cup,mabouhay was the other one,.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Percy way before my time had a handy horse called plain bob  it won in city.oloroso,
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Seem to recall Ron Percy attending the Goldfields round in my early days JJ. I thought he may have been living in Merredin at the time which would link him to Bill Whitfield. Maybe ...maybe not...tenuous grasp on those types memories.
    Remember driving past the Whitfield sign on the property when travelling from Kal to Perth as a kid. 
    Bill Whitfield produced some sturdy racehorses. The NE Districts was the first to suffer in terms of contraction of breeding numbers and it has been a downward spiral ever since.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Yes, old Whitty got that good horse Express Adios from Noel Simpson in NSW, raced him...he was a very good FFA horse, Zaruma and Ex Adios's full brother I think..... and then stood him and bred a lot of winners....Ramon Adios, Cam Adios....maybe Concord Crossing but I think that belonged to the Sheehy's.
    Noel Firkin paid him a compliment by breeding one and naming it Whitty Adios, won a few. Remember one night at Northam ...late 1970's ....Noel had a pretty good little horse, can't remember its name, Peniche or something like that (was a Stratton breed with Kolector blood)....anyway, it wins the main race to much cheering and shouting and the on course commentator (Stuart Shenton I think) comes out with "Great win by Peniche...and the whole firkin family are here to celebrate". Everybody just stopped in their tracks and cracked up, hoping that 6PR or whoever was taking the broadcast had someone hitting the 7 second delay button.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited April 2019
    Bookielover what about the great bookie armed robbery that occurred in Melbourne at Tattersalls or wherever the settling was done at - was that in the 70's ? Wasn't much security it appeared, did they just rely on the element of surprise ? How many were involved and were they caught ?

    Also one from left field - can you recall a young hoop Craig Dinn riding in Victoria ? Thought was going to be a top jockey but seemed to find some trouble, was around about the time Darren Gauci was riding winner after winner as an apprentice.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Easter Long weekend, 1976....good haul. I think it is still officially an "unsolved crime" although all of the alleged perpetrators have been knocked off long ago.....I think a "loose" version of the robbery and associated murders in the aftermath, was covered in the "Underbelly" TV series. The Victoria Club.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    RIDERS . w.a. had there own bookies robbery you can call it, when 6IX had ,a program that ran from 12-1pm and in it that hour races were taped and replayed a few minutes later, so a group was betting with bookies full well knowing the result,,,. got away with it august 1975, but got caught doing it over the Kalgoorlie round in September 75.

    S.P. bookmaker Norm graham suspected a racket because this mob always bet in the last minute,and the horses always won,Later Laurie Connell got  two years. became known as the Kalgoorlie sting.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited April 2019
    Stg - did get on a result afterwards - once. Picture mid-late seventies Ascot Ledger - protest 2nd v 1st - was around the back area of the tote - remember the payout windows section at the back - well it had come thru there, think it was written on a small blackboard, that the protest had been upheld - but nothing had come over the P.A. - a quick dash around to bookielover's and chariots mob who use to bet on the protest's - "I'll have $20 on that being upheld please"...wasn't long to wait..beep beep beep dulcet tones of Max Simmonds - "attention please ladies and gentlemen the protest second against first has been upheld" - gee that was lucky, had a feeling it might be.

    Glad to report been to confession many times since and the racing game and bookmakers got it back tenfold. Was only $20 - a reasonable amount back then perhaps worth $60 -$70 today, could've put more on but didn't - would like to say was because wasn't being greedy - but truth being that was all had on me!

    In reference to the Kalgoorlie "wire" saw my fave movie of all time was on again the other night - The Sting. They don't come much better than that film, Robert Shaw just brilliant.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts

    Bookielover what about the great bookie armed robbery that occurred in Melbourne at Tattersalls or wherever the settling was done at - was that in the 70's ? Wasn't much security it appeared, did they just rely on the element of surprise ? How many were involved and were they caught ?

    Also one from left field - can you recall a young hoop Craig Dinn riding in Victoria ? Thought was going to be a top jockey but seemed to find some trouble, was around about the time Darren Gauci was riding winner after winner as an apprentice.

    Hey Riders - i watched a foxtel documentary on that a couple of years ago

    A couple of points of interest - the robbers all heavily disguised - and one of the robbers said - everyone on the ground - and he then said - and that includes you Ambrose ( he was referring to Ambrose Palmer - Lionel Rose trainer )

     So then Palmer tells the Kane brothers ( career criminals )  who is behind the robbery

    Now criminals are like animals - like mauling Lion and Hyena packs - instead of them saying the ones who robbed the bookies - thats their bounty - no they say - we will rob those robbers -  kill them if they have to

    So the mastermind of the Bookie robbery Ray Bennett - heard what was happening - and killed one of the Kane bros - however when Bennett was in court - charged with the bookie robbery - the other Kane brother dressed up as a barrister - with a wig and everything - and in a lunch recess just shot Bennet dead - the police must have just turned a blind eye to that - and amazingly the Kane brother just walked out of the court  complex

    20-30 years ago there were a couple of chilling murders of a couple of bookmakers in Sydney  - Lyoyd Tidmarsh was one of them - the other one i can remember when it happened - the bloke was fielding at Dapto greys - had about 25k on him - when he got home in his garage - he got ambushed - brutally murdered - and i read last year - cold case - they have finally charged someone - DNA hit - drop of blood on the bookies sock . The bloke they charged  from the Central Coast - was a suspect at the time of the murder - cops dont reckon he acted alone - and interestingly enough his  father was once a hopeless punter who was charged with embezzlement - but after that be became  an anti gambling crusader

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited April 2019
    Yes I've seen and read about whereby that guy was shot in the court complex, with the fellow walking out.

    If these are all the things we know, then probably much more has never seen the light of day. Not many camera's, no dna back then that's for sure and everything was cash - no online banking! They certainly did carry some money with them the bookies and others.

    Close as I saw when growing up we had a high ranking policeman ( hint Shirley Finn murder investigation) as our neighbour and he couldn't have been a nicer fellow. Was told as it was abit before my time but helped capture (from stakeout ) the WA serial killer Edgar Cook.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    That incident with the protest at Ascot might have been very early 80's, although was betting when underage - who didn't!

    Wonder when the ledger at Ascot and Belmont closed down - am suspecting early 90's.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    Kilrickle - la trice - railway stakes. ???
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Episode 8 - Bridgetown Betting Dual

    Picture a cold night meeting at Bridgetown in the late 70s, two bookmakers with their wives clerking for them.

    Not much betting action so the two bookmakers start betting with each other.  The irony being that they both lost.

    The losses were contributed to a training/driving double by Sam Conti with Score a Point and Another Adios.  Sam brought a punter with him to Bridgetown and he unloaded on the two winners.

    It was a long and silent drive back to Perth.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    Hey Chariots talking about the country scene- i got shouted down for once mentioning this before

    But pre pay tv - i use to go to the country meetings - and i went to ( all these were night meetings at the time ) Pinjarra Bunbury Harvey Northam York and Cunderdin

    Now as for on course attendance - i would rate them Pinjarra easily the best - then Bunbury - then a decent gap to Harvey then York then Cunderdin - then a distant last Northam ( considering the size of the town )

    I went to Northam several times - and there was basically no one their - no one in the home straight watching the races - no one in the betting ring ( Bruce Atkinson and that Kingsly bloke - they must have been bored out of their brains )

    In fact the only person i use to see their  was the chief steward Rod Osborne climbing up into the stewards tower  -just past the winning post near the corner

    Did see Georgie G their one night and that was about it
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Started fielding with as many as 16 bookmakers at Pinjarra and on the old Harvey track in the town, 8-10 at Bunbury and about 8 at Northam.

    The numbers diminished in the 80s and 90s to the point where I fielded at most meetings one out and despite the perceived advantage much preferred working with other bookies.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Depends on which era Marko...I was working in Northam 1974 to 1978, pretty vibrant in those days, 10-12 bookies. FRK was dominating Country Racing (with Bill doing a lot of the driving as well) Trevor Warwick, Kevin Batt, Val Pereira  always to the fore, Rodney White, George, Bill Horn, and many others always scooting around the ring. Wally Thomas had a good horse High Narai, I remember Tricky had a great owner (Jockey Williams) who used to drive down from Northhampton to watch and back his horses, Youno Billie and Chapel Lodge, Northam Cup night very big...Dillons Return for old Les Tanner, Local Product, Silver Express for Jesse Moore. Think it all started to head down hill in the mid 80's but have made the trip up a number of times in the last couple of years and always a pretty healthy on course attendance, especially in summer and for their feature nights. Good track, well run club and excellent tucker. Stabling area the best in WA, about to be joined by Pinjarra's new complex.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Chariots,would you have any recollection of horse called bay reward trained by alan robert hall. driven by trevor warwick,as some sort of plunge late seventies bunbury trots last race on program? its form was ordinary.

    Remmeber  three of us just talking near winning post ,when old bloke with a noticeable limp,came up to us out of the blue about ten minutes before the race said fellas do youself"s a favour back bay reward because it will just win,

    Over to the ring we go its 5/1  people were talking it opened at 33s so we each throw a tenna on it, because it had no form, more so because the old fella had gone out of his way to tell us it duly saluted it was 2.28,race
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Bay Reward, December 2 1978, plunged in the last race at Bunbury, driver was A.R Hall (his trainer). First of only 3 wins for the horse, the other 2 were a heat and final at Pinjarra (Dec 16 and Dec 28) when Trevor Warwick drove him.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    There you go remember keeping my eye on it after its bunbury win , and it won with t.warwick at pinjarra, so naturally thought warwick had drove it at bunbury,do remember one think at pinjarra a horse called little big shot  k.batt.had the best form in the race. good work jay jay.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    Jay Jay - re Northam it was in the 80s - most bookies i ever saw their was 3 - normally 2

    And it got that deserted - there was only bookie - but there was another bookies stand - not attended by anyone - but they had a little screen/monitor with the odds each race - and i just assumed that if you wanted to bet with that bookie ( who wasnt in attendance ) you just rang him up

    Re Northam ( nothing to do with Harness racing ) - but ive driven through it quite a few times - stopped at the Westpac - i think it is near the Post Office .- but has Northam got a Paris end to it - like a couple of streets with beautiful federation homes etc - or is it just  your typical service town - pretty plain

    Like York is quite beautiful - with those magnificent old historical  buildings
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Yes Marko, I left Northam at the end of 1978 and I know it all dropped off in the 80's. But the 70's were good times at Burwood Park.
    Northam does indeed have a lot of magnificent old Federation houses including the Town hall, some great old Pubs  plus some suburb old homes ...Gordon Street and the like, lots of stonework and old fashioned masonry....plus it has some pretty ordinary parts as well. even had what was called "Snob Hill" in the 70's, up around the Gold Course. Plus of course, it is a rural service town, a bit of everything really
    It's not I guess what you would call a "fashionable" place but I loved my 5 years there as a relatively young bloke and have always a retained a soft spot for the place. Still love going back there and was tickled pink to win the Norrish Memorial with Cut Above a few months back. 

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    JayJay said:

    Bay Reward, December 2 1978, plunged in the last race at Bunbury, driver was A.R Hall (his trainer). First of only 3 wins for the horse, the other 2 were a heat and final at Pinjarra (Dec 16 and Dec 28) when Trevor Warwick drove him.

    Two punters that I knew quite well after the race,said they had received the same information that it would win, the punters I knew were  davo+gay, went to the kalg.round with them and they won over 10k,at the two up when they returned to collie they got  wilf powell to find them a horse  .

     Pride of Kentucky a beautiful jet black. and a good horse.was a result of two-up winnings.
    Davo. son peter was a top footballer injury prone,played state football,eagles, Brisbane bears, Claremont,east freo.

    Trying to find the last piece of football swap,think peter was zoned swan districts, there was a three player swap,ken marshall went from subicao to swans, peter Davidson went swans to Claremont without playing a game for swans how I think it was? trying to remember who went from Claremont to subicao, Village Kid your the favourite for the answer,  think I got it right so far.?

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