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GP 3/5 Race For The Roses Standing Start Race 9

Harness & Greyhounds
JayJayJayJay    4,957 posts
A fair bit of intrigue in this standing start $30k race for the girls....intrigued as to why it is race 9 for what is a featured annual event in honour of Laurie Kennedy.
Further intrigue when I am informed that STANDING START form is not a criteria for field selection which I would have thought, incorrectly as it turns out, would have been a fair thing to consider. As such, it could be a nightmare race from a punting point of view and the performance of horses in stands would be one thing I would be placing a premium on before investing a cent on the race. Hopefully they all step like birds but some could still be galloping Saturday morning, disorganising the field in the process. Lets hope not. Breakdown on form and standing start history:

1. Purest Silk -Fr- 3 runs back from a 10 month spell, has won a country front GP midweek and in good form. 23 lifetime starts but has never raced in a stand. Had a standing start jump out at Bunbury Trials on April 24th to qualify for standing start races.

2. Halle Rage -Fr- 1 win GP metro from last 17 starts, qualified for stands when winning a Byford trial on June 3, 2018. 45 career starts but has never raced in a stand.

3. She Could Be Good -Fr- last win in June 2018, 23 starts ago but has been regularly placed. Has never raced in a stand in 64 career starts, qualified for stands with a jump out at in a 4 horse trial  at  Byford on April 7th.

4. Our Major Mama -Fr- Oaks winner 12 months ago at $139.80 but just one win in last 10 starts at Narrogin. Never started in a standing start race in 31 career starts, qualified for stands with a jump out at Bunbury trials on April 24th.

5. Beaudiene Beach Babe-Fr - won at Narrogin 7 starts ago but metro placed in decent company. Never started in a stand in 28 race starts, qualified for stands with a jump out at Bunbury Trials April 24th.

6. Rock N Roll Delight -Fr- ODS - one career start in a stand at Addington when it presumably got its ODS designation. Never started in a stand in 34 Australian starts. won a mid week GP 4 starts back.

7. Rosies Ideal -10m- class mare, great form and one of my favourite mares .She has never started in a stand in 25 career starts. Harness Web reports that she qualified for a stand on April 7th 2019. Trials were held at Pinjarra, Byford and Central Wheatbelt on that date. There is no record in the trial results of Rosies Ideal starting in a stand trial, or any other trial for that matter. There is nothing on her racing record on HRA of her trialing on that date. One can only guess as to how she achieved her standing start eligibility status unless there is a mistake in the results of the trials. A mystery.

8. Veiled Secret - 10m - last start Metro GP winner and a stand winner at Pinjarra 11 starts ago at it's only stand start in 37 career starts (apparently qualified in a jump out at Pinjarra the week before but no record on the trial results).

9. Miss Sangrial -20m -  quality mare, genuine chance, won a stand from 30m at Pinjarra at it's last start and had its first standing start in 47 starts the week before.

10. Our Angel Of Harlem - 30m- quality mare, first standing start attempt in 32 starts but qualified for the stand at Byford when jumping to the front and leading all the way on April 7th.

11. Forever Remembered - 30m - took until start 127 before she had her first attempt at a stand but ran 3rd and 4th at her next two starts from the stand. But as far as stand form goes in this field, it is at the top end.

12. Eden Franco - 50m - ODS Quality, Won this race last year, which was her last attempt at the stand, and her only standing start in Australia.. Is ODS but it must be a carryover from NZ where she had a couple of goes at a stand.

As the "barefoot investor advises, tread carefully, tread very carefully indeed.
+1 -1

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Comments

  • savethegamesavethegame    1,131 posts
    W hat a joke just received   you have 2 super picks to use on au/nz greyhound races  running TODAY ONLY;;;;;; Tab Touch what about the two harness meetings in w.a., everything becomes more clearer by the week with regards to trotting,  and to have a full field and a feature race, as well  to be run at 9.25pm. race 9. est, 11.25pm. so that doubly make's sure  t/over takes a hit in the stand...…..

    The perfect race 9 that throws up that many variables so  for a,  small outlay theres big chance some nice divis may be found in the novelties…………..TAB  to make it a guaranteed 10k first four pool.to stimulate t/over.....Decision makers don't forget to look throw your eyebrows when your pay is deposited in your bank acc.... Harness the tail is wagging the dog...……….The voices on the radio  trot out the punter  wants it over done with in the 30sec..sky channel was formed to beam the action in our pubs, clubs&,lounge rooms not to tell us how to run harness....

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  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    53 posts
    https://vimeo.com/album/4666746/video/332894509

    https://vimeo.com/album/4666746/video/328888046

    Rosie’s Ideals 2 stand trials, no idea why they aren’t in the results.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,357 posts
    Can someone please explain to me how Cut Above didnt gain a start in the Laurie Kennedy Races For Roses Race tonight?
    I would have thought she has ticked all the boxes re both good form and good standing start form at that considering it is a stand tonight and many of those in lesser form have never raced from the stand before!

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,357 posts
    Race 1- Mighty Santana
    Race 2- The Midas Touch
    Race 3- Luis Alberto
    Race 4- Chicago Bull
    Race 5- Dracarys   (WA OAKS)
    Race 6- The War Nurse
    Race 7- Highroller Joe
    Race 8- Carrera Mach
    Race 9- Our Angel Of Harlem
    Race 10- Matthew James
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,131 posts
    V.K. thought probably could bring more to the race then forever remember whos only placing in last ten starts was a third , and that was at collie, being a eight year old mare upside?,plus cut above has excellent standing start, credentials, and won collies main race for the season the collie cup over 2700 by 11 metres four starts ago and shes a last start winner,, does the handicapper have a discretion component still? would have to glance over the last years oaks winner as well on recent form our major mama, narrogin win seven starts ago,...…………………………………………………..            for mine in front of forever remember.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,131 posts
    Rosies ideal only had two jumpouts and no finishing position to be lodged' in the actual trial would that be the reason?
  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    53 posts
    Even horses who have completed jump outs should be listed as such with Stewards quotations along side signifying how she stepped and if qualified (eg SO,QS)

    JayJay likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,000 posts
    Good race the Oaks - i enjoyed that

    Bit of action at the start - then some mid race moves - favourite gave in  like a pricked baloon - with the run on horses swamping them - exciting finish to the line

    Locally bred horse - the winner i see - Kevin Charles- no that race ticks alot of boxes in my book

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  • JayJayJayJay    4,957 posts
    Brilliant race, what on earth it was doing programmed as race 9, I will never understand. That is why we need to keep standing start races, full stop. The horse with the best stand manners in the race - a last start standing start winner - wins courtesy of a brilliant start and an even better drive. If Rosies steps, it wins, enormous run from a super mare. A couple of others chances predictably  went out the window when the tapes flew back and very unfortunate that something appeared to go wrong with Our Angel of Harlem. But if you want entertaining racing, go no further than that race.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,305 posts
    JayJay said:

    Brilliant race, what on earth it was doing programmed as race 9, I will never understand. That is why we need to keep standing start races, full stop. The horse with the best stand manners in the race - a last start standing start winner - wins courtesy of a brilliant start and an even better drive. If Rosies steps, it wins, enormous run from a super mare. A couple of others chances predictably  went out the window when the tapes flew back and very unfortunate that something appeared to go wrong with Our Angel of Harlem. But if you want entertaining racing, go no further than that race.

    Thought Richie's was a great call as well. Nearly fell out of the box late.....did a Rick Mc Intosh and it added some great colour.

    VillageKid, Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,957 posts
    Agree totally, maybe a shilling or two on Miss Sangrial? Hope so, what more convincing do the powers that be need in order to be programming more stands? Looking forward in the programming, stand races are as rare as rocking horse poop. That was a fantastic race.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,305 posts
    I have thought for a long time that each season ie Summer Winter Autumn & Spring should have a 50K Stand final that starters can accrue points toward in terms of getting a start over a 3 month period. The points could come from designated stands at any or all meetings. Probably would result in a number of trainers taking the view that it would be wise to set horses for the specific events. Nothing like a few big dollar return possibilities to focus the attention as last nights race demonstrated.
    As STG stated in an earlier post....it is time to stop the tail wagging the dog in terms of SKY coverage. The decision to back end the program with what was a superb race has the self centred anti stand fingerprints all over it.
     
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,000 posts

    I have thought for a long time that each season ie Summer Winter Autumn & Spring should have a 50K Stand final that starters can accrue points toward in terms of getting a start over a 3 month period. The points could come from designated stands at any or all meetings. Probably would result in a number of trainers taking the view that it would be wise to set horses for the specific events. Nothing like a few big dollar return possibilities to focus the attention as last nights race demonstrated.

    As STG stated in an earlier post....it is time to stop the tail wagging the dog in terms of SKY coverage. The decision to back end the program with what was a superb race has the self centred anti stand fingerprints all over it.
     
    What you say is all good in theory - but i think yourself ( and others who love stands ) are ignorant of the serious punters and ignorant of the factual situation that actually occurred at GP a couple of years ago re standing starts

    When there was a stand  every week - it was usually about race 4 - about 2-3 years ago - i would suggest there was 8-10 false starts in one year . And there was a  terrible patch their - where it happened every 2nd week - eg the strand didnt release - or it caught in one horses legs - i think there was one week their they had 2 false starts

    I can remember one occurrence - DeCampo had the even money favourite off the front line - 1st take - steps like a bullet  in front - ok youve got 2k or 5k on the nose - your rapt - oh  no its a false start yet again  - 2nd take - it bombs the start

    3 years ago where there were 10 false starts in a year - they are the indisputable facts   - so what do you do ! - Globe Derby for a while - had those walk up starts - it was like playing musical chairs - who would bet on them - maybe $10 e/w punter  for an interest - no serious punter would touch them

    Victoria god rid of them for one FACTUAL reason - they were the lowest turnover races re betting -so they piissed them off
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    Last night thought there's one I fancy - might be around $5, this maybe it's race - first look on tote was just over $4 and thought that's a bit short - then a glance at fixed $1.50!!!
    Very happy to have passed on Bettor Be Lively. $1.50 my goodness.
  • JayJayJayJay    4,957 posts
    Unlike your good self Marko, I am ignorant on many things in life. However, on this issue, I plead not guilty to your charge. Programming the Race For The Roses at Race 9 was disrespectful to the memory of Laurie Kennedy, it was  disrespectful to a Group 3 Mares and Fillies race and late in the night, it was earmarked for a low betting turnover. In fact, pari mutual wise, it held up pretty well. Did you watch the race....because as one who has consistently slammed GP as leaders paradise (incorrectly so on many occasions....backed up by facts), and dead boring to watch, I would have thought you would have been doing handstands about such a brilliant and competitive race. But then again, I am probably just plain old ignorant.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    Victoria may have got rid of the stands ( for turnover ) perhaps they could now start working on the amount of deep long odds on favourites that go around nearly every meeting ( outside of Melton and they have their share ).

    Never since following the game have seen a proliferation of odds on fave's as in Victoria - 5-6-7-8 horse fields and its either $1.04 to $1.20 or two horses at 9/10 and the rest at 33/1.

    Cranbourne, Shepparton, Ballarat, Bendigo, Maryborough, Kilmore, mostly dominated by odds on fave's.

    Drop stands to increase turnover - increase of long odds on fave's - decreases turnover. The Vics deliver odds on fave's in spades.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,305 posts
    edited May 4
    How many mobile false starts in the same period Marko ?... how many tailed off in the score up and the race goes without them ? 
    If there is mechanical or human error in stand procedure ....fix it.....it's not rocket science.
    Have a look at SKY 2 Sunday morning and watch 16 step away from the stand in NZ on a regular basis.
    It's a time and effort thing......and when you have stables cutting corners and costs then something has to give....along with the vision provider trying to stuff as many results per minute into their sponsors pockets.....and the tradition and history and real handicapping in this sport comes a long last in the competing priorities.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    Enjoy the NZ pacing - big 14-16 horse fields - mostly quite open - except when All Stars stable involved, the grass tracks can throw up some results!

    In contrast can't stand the USA harness ( outside of their big meetings ) - it's nearly enough to put you off trotting! 1609 metres every race - no more than eight runners. The favourites automatically run to the front 99% of the time - then they just hand up to another favourite, if they keep running they run 1,2,3,4 and the roughies only come in by default - the leaders get tired.

    Very little tactics - show speed - hand up - try to hang on from there whether leading or behind leader. After one lap it's all over.

    Give me NZ and Australia any day to that.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    French trotting - great to watch - silliest thing to bet on! Just too difficult - all trotter's races - huge 16 horse fields - several can do the Watusi Shuffle beginning and during the race.

    Had a bet there once - $10 a win three horses - had no idea where they were in the run, then noticed on top of the tv screen 7, 8, 12 and thought wow that's great their running 1,2,3 I'm a chance here.

    No that wasn't them running 1,2,3 - it had a different meaning - disqualified, disqualified, disqualified.
    Welcome to French Trotting - had two bets there - that was the first and last!
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,305 posts
    edited May 4
    Another fact....when the stands were a regular item and the pool of horses racing in them caused ballots they were the highest turnover race on any night at GP. The stand Hunter Cup was always the highest turnover race in Victoria annually.  The erosion of horse numbers and the sleight of hand programming has led to a self fulfilling prophecy in terms of turnover with which the hoodwinking of the naive has occurred by agenda driven self interest.
    Hall Snr for instance used to stand all his horses up religiously after each track workout and step them away as practice for years. He reaped the rewards in stands but I would doubt he does it to the same extent now as the race numbers barely warrant it. Put on a quarterly 50K stand with qualifying conditions including specific stand races and watch that change. It is all about the reward on offer for the punter/ competitor. Stand racing as Riders once said........is the thinking mans race to punt on. 
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    Some of the Victorian Country Trotting Cups that were stands - wide open - competitive betting races - are now mobiles with $1.04 and $1.20 favourites. So much for the increase in turnover.

    This year's Echuca Cup - formerly a stand and open - was won by a $1.04 chance ( great 4th in the Hunter Cup ) that should've been off 80 metres, and still would've gone close.

    Mildura Cup, Kilmore Cup, Echuca Cup etc all with along tradition of wide open standing start betting races - heavily invested on - now can be dominated by odds on fave's.

    Not sure if turnover has increased in Victoria but the amount of odds on favourites has - there everywhere!
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    235 posts
    Victoria cant get full fields and alot of meetings dont have 8 races. Horses like Bonsu would have been retired years ago if in Victoria as wouldn't have earnt in mobiles, I backed it alot at Pinjarra , mostly for a place, and regularly collected.

    If they had regularly stand races ( they ran in stands week in, week out) Im sure people would bet
    And it would help the horse racing population, if you had a good stand horse you could run them in the country cups ( resist the US market)

    I bet in Victorian but dont bet in stand start trot races
    I always bet in the stands at GP ( you back the good stand horses and good stand drivers)

    The country cups in Victoria were a highlight, now another low light which we dont need. 

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    The trotter's standing starts in Victoria - there'll be a short priced favourite - and you should be getting much better odds about it trotting away - let alone winning.

    Just recently commentator said the fave is very short odds, has galloped away last two runs but has loads of ability and has much on this field...hmmmm, all well and good...strands go back and out it comes dancing away like Disco Duck on the dance floor.

    Trotter's are great to watch in full flight, but forever and a day, punting wise with their different gait, they can gallop at the drop of a hat.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,667 posts
    Not entering into the stand debate but if Our Angel of Harlem had not had an issue the race would have been a procession.
  • JayJayJayJay    4,957 posts
    Maybe, maybe not ....and if Rosie had stepped....and if Eden Franco didn't  get held up...and if Miss Sangrial hadn't stepped like it did....and if Roknroll had got down to the pegs off the backwas Angel O f Harlem best suited in front........the race was what it was, a great spectacle and I don't get into the what ifs. Do hope Angel is okay and just choked down or something not serious.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,000 posts
    Im not anti standing starts - but you cant have what was actually happening at GP - all those false starts - - tapes not releasing - then they would hand hold them - strands getting caught on horses legs

    And the biggest mistake ( when they ran them regularly at GP at about race 4 ) is they started them in the front straight - how dumb was that - youve got people - the crowd very close to them - youve got horses on the front who are fractious - and with the mob around them that doesnt help at all

    You run them over a longer journey - and start them in the back straight - where no one is around - and the horses dont get stirred up

    Interesting runner at Bunbury tonight - last race - no 11 Shadows Image - 1st up for 2 years - decent stable - no trials - shocking field  $151 and $19 the place - but theve got G Hall jnr driving - just for fun ive had $15 the win and $5 the place - that driving engagement intrigues me - watched one of its runs at GP about 2 years ago - its got some ability
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,131 posts
    Marko you make a very good point re-starting points   why not have  all stands start in the back straight. Harness w.a. sent two fellas to America to get a irish horse to race in inters whole exercise by the time horse& connections the whole shooting match would have cost  over 50k. for meadow branch d.j…….Surely  we could send two of our starters to n.z. for few weeks to learn of the best best standing start starter in the world peter lamb,all the problems with stands are fixable the best thing about stands the few big punters that like to operate with  insurance policys in races that  option disappears with variables that stands provide.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    Chicago Bull was $1.06 last night - will be interesting to see how short will be this prep, am predicting may hit $1.01 - 1/100.

    Shakamaker and Blacks A Fake both started at 1/100 in there careers. Will never forget the Tuesday daylight Albion Park meeting Blacks A Fake $1.00 money back both totes win and place - don't ask how - but yes he got rolled.

    Got a feeling a bookie in Melbourne caused a stir when he put up 1/1000 Shakamaker $1000 to win a $1 or $10k to win $10.

    Blacks A Fake losing at $1 and $1 proved it doesn't happen overnight - but it will happen!
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,305 posts

    Not entering into the stand debate but if Our Angel of Harlem had not had an issue the race would have been a procession.

    And if Rosies Ideal had stepped instead of being 50m behind the leader when they settled down it would have blitzed them...including Our Angel Of Odd Performances. Because it was a stand RI had the chance to sustain late and lessen the impact of the lost ground. If it was a mobile the early burn would have meant a plugging finish instead the stand although it lost ground early manners wise it still had a full tank to use up late. 
      
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    8,349 posts
    edited May 4
    From memory the funny thing about Blacks A Fake that day - don't even think he was unlucky - may have been resuming from a spell, small field 6 or 7 - nothing of note in the race hence $1 and a $1, lone bookie on track 1/100, not sure if led or not, think may travelled from the breeze - it didn't really matter was 100 metres better - Rasmussen went for him - hello hello - flat as the proverbial tack - commentator like everybody was gobsmacked.

    Not anywhere near the end of his career either - he might have had at least one more interdomion to win or perhaps two - but on a bright sunny Tuesday at Albion Park in a small field the unthinkable occurred.

    There was some good news for punters though - those who took the $1 a place or backed each way got that $1 returned.
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