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GP- 7/6 4yo & 5yo Westbred Mares Pace Night

Harness & Greyhounds
Race 1- Lady De La Renta
Race 2- Waimac Attack
Race 3- Mighty Flying Deal
Race 4- The War Nurse
Race 5- Maczaffair
Race 6- Bechers Brook
Race 7- Ideal Liner
Race 8- All Jokes Aside
Race 9- Robb Stark
Race 10- Know When To Run

Comments

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,044 posts
    I thought Jaxon Fella could run a nice race from 4 back the fence tonight, looks an absolute pegs race that.

    Also giving Vincenzo a chance at big odds of trying to zap them and run well.

    Clares Fool EW R3 Narrogin my best of the night
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    Mentioned the other day like seeing horses genuinely improve - when looking up the meaning of the word improvement there'll be a photo Luis Alberto.

    His form through the months has come on leaps and bounds. All credit to both trainer and a driver who is racking up wins and places on big priced runners.

    The other thing - have spoken about this once or thrice - the free for all bunch of gee gee's there is a different winner every week and glad to report Luis Alberto didn't let the system down.

    Wonder who'll it will be next week ?

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    A couple of weeks ago Campora was terrific value at better than $7 a place - beats me why anybody would back it tonight to win at $3. ( Barrier one unders well and truly in place there ).

    Only one thing surprise's more than Luis Alberto's genuine improvement...and that's how in the heck did Whozideawasthis dash past Chicago Bull ?

    Anyway it was his turn to show up that night and unplaced twice since, next week we will see a new result again.

    It's a terrific stable, one of the best I've ever seen, but if anybody can ever convince me that it's all positive and a great thing for trotting to have that many stablemates in a race - please do.


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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts
    Riders Thought tonight maybe a knockout race backed three roughies  luis alberto, im soxy, tact major, I missed the tri no maczaffiar….

    Never forget when luis alberto was certain beat when lord Willoughby beat him, think gilga was on that night..as well. But sure is running a lot happier at new camp..

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    For sure stg looked a knockout race and it was. No criticism that's there's a different winner each week either - that's competitiveness.

    Raymond Alexander was that other improver mentioned - placed again tonight at Narrogin at $3.60 tote. He was a quintessential battler and still is, but doesn't matter if Luis Alberto or Raymond Alexander when they can improve its good to see.

    Do horse's literally get happier at new camp's ? There would be different training methods etc, but I'd reckon yes a new environment might make a horse happy or happier for sure.

    Nobody believes me - but I still reckon 25-30 years ago bookmakers would've bet 6/1 or 7/1 Campora but on the flip side Luis Alberto would only have been 20 to 25/1.

    Don't know what was more ridiculous the 2/1 9/4 Campora or 75/1 Luis Alberto.
    Never has the barrier draw played a bigger factor in betting odds in the history of trotting at Gloucester Park.

    Of course there are the processions and forget any horse drawn badly - but then there are the other races! Barrier draw can be thrown out the window after a lap - and they are much better to watch.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts

    .


    .

    It's a terrific stable, one of the best I've ever seen, but if anybody can ever convince me that it's all positive and a great thing for trotting to have that many stablemates in a race - please do.


    RIDERS  think it got very confusing,no-one knew who,'s who at the zoo after 500m let alone whozideawasthis

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    Been singing his praise's but why would he come off the pegs on Four Star - can't miss third unless roll off the pegs - so he does. You don't need to pass geography or get a protractor out.

    The guy on Liam Neil said thanks mate i"ll take that run and get third.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,394 posts
    Wouldn't think @aussiebattler will be reciting the praises of the HWOE system whilst driving back home tonight. 

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,394 posts
    Well done JJ and gang with Cut Above ....great stand manners and race fitness gives a predictable result ......very rosy outlook for this mare.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,044 posts
    Anybody know what happens with that GP quad carryover from tonight? Tomorrows meeting or swept up by the TAB juggernaut to put on some unrelated meeting?
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts
    Curmudge.;;;; Jay Jay  lover of stands well done alright it was two minutes 25 seconds late got the flick from sky one with 2min 39seconds to man.dog before start time, then the dog race ran  a minute late no problem with there policy, 

    But they sure seem to jump on the stands at every opportunity in w.a.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,394 posts
    M Scott to the fore in the stand at Narrogin less than a half an hour later with Carramar Philemon .... withstood plenty of early pressure and stuck on well to get the cabbage.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,394 posts
    And again with Talon Again at Narrogin......been a handy night for the team

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    Most unusual to see a Matt Scott horse pace faultlessly away from the stand and lead all the way ( or at worse tuck in behind the leader ).

    How well does he place them too.

    Talking of tucking in behind the leader - look Browny that thing you drove in the last at GP - it ain't that good, ( compared to the Hall driven horse ) just tuck in behind the fave - why wanted to stay in the one out line and go up and down on the one spot instead of running second just like Galante did ?

    Draw gate 2 - Hall in one driving the good thing just get in behind it.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    Gilga - of course it should go to the next WA meeting or next Friday night but no - Tabcorp over east control it - and they fair dinkum have no idea.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    Good up tempo pacing tonight just the same - and Talon Again win at Narrogin - amazing race, put $5 each way, was thinking after half a lap well there's better things to do with $10 , then things got worse, was going to run in the last three...then up the straight...hello hello.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    58 posts

    Wouldn't think @aussiebattler will be reciting the praises of the HWOE system whilst driving back home tonight. 


    Barney went ok not his fault the system let him down he’s had 3 starts at GP barriers 8,9, in 2017 barrier 9 again tonight field split on HWOE didn’t help top of the points table in form horses against the lower end of the points table country form runner mixed with the random bad draw we knew how the race was going to pan out before they started . Can’t give praise to something that doesn’t deserve it ;)


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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    The Hall camp had 6 runner's in the Free For All and not one ran a place in a field of 12, the odds of that happening 500,000/1.

    No doubt that will turned around very fast and will bet London to a brick a Hall runner wins the Free For All next week.

    "Giddyup's" brief comment previewing the race race was..."tricky race dominated by the Hall stable"....was tricky alright, but domination as it transpired was only on paper.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,246 posts
    edited June 7
    Missed seeing Cut Above win and only just checked the results....unusual for the Tab to make an error with dividends...an inform horse, consistent and a safe begginer, best standing start trainer dare say possibly in Australia, a smart competent driver - surely $15 is a mistake!!

    Nice if backed getting 14/1 about a 6/1 chance.
    Got a lot of time for Caviar Star but the 40 metre mark at GP can test the best of them. That's what makes them such good races.

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,495 posts
    A great win by Cut Above at GP last night from the stand which makes her omission from the Race For Rosies look even more ridiculous than it already was!

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,760 posts
    Fred Kersley once said the most exciting races are usually due to driver error and that statement epitomised last nights FFA.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,394 posts
    edited June 8
    Delights me to see a real homebred like Gearsinawhirl win at Narrogin last night. A Laurel Schofield and Bill Duffy bred he has some pretty smart ancestors on both sides of his pedigree....Via Vista on sires side and Electrofying Franco on dams side for instance.
    When people keep and breed from their own stock I reckon the effort adds an element of authenticity and integrity to the industry.
    Well done to all concerned.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts
    FFA .will probably go down as one of the most comical races run at that level,ever run at g.p especially first quarter at 25.7 if its correct don't think seen one that quick at g.p. then to spit out 27.9 second quarter.

    The drivers inbuilt clocks may need checking
  • ZimmermanZimmerman    75 posts
    Correct stg! It was the fastest. Debt free charlie went 26.4 first quarter probably bout 4-6 months back which was the fastest first split at gp in about 20 years which was a midweek 3yo in 26.7

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts
    Always wondered for a novelty aspect a interstate drivers challenge,.Based on a vehicle that could be set at different speeds  over different distances with a cart attached,with no semaphore in use  maybe;with futures betting component attached if each state done a eight driver heat, and the top two from each state to meet in a final 10k to winner.

    We would find out for sure who has the best in built clock.. in Australia harness....the drivers to submit the overall time plus last quarter over 1600m 2400m 3200m, no times to be reveled until everyones competed times held by the stewards.

    Remmeber two famous inbuilt clocks  terry duckett a jockey in Sydney for him to be a second out was very rare at trackwork.....Nothing for melb. trackwork rider bob ball to ride six to ten melbourne cup runners in there last couple of gallops prior to the cup, this was years ago, prior to overseas runners invasion purely because his times were spot on.


  • ZimmermanZimmerman    75 posts
    The ‘iceman’ G Lang!
  • getthechangegetthechange    100 posts

    Wouldn't think @aussiebattler will be reciting the praises of the HWOE system whilst driving back home tonight. 


    Barney went ok not his fault the system let him down he’s had 3 starts at GP barriers 8,9, in 2017 barrier 9 again tonight field split on HWOE didn’t help top of the points table in form horses against the lower end of the points table country form runner mixed with the random bad draw we knew how the race was going to pan out before they started . Can’t give praise to something that doesn’t deserve it ;)




    the races are divided by HWOE as it narrows the bands in accordance wit industry feedback

    Just Barney was in RBD race and someone has to draw bad and unfortunately he drew bad

    His other two GP starts were under the MCR system in GPC races one of which was pref draw  on C and the other was RBD - Neither race was under the HWOE system

    Just Barney comparison

    2016/17 season - 20 starts - 2 wins - 3 x 2nds - 3 x 3rds - 4 x 4ths = $14,435  - av/start $722

    2017/18 season - 18 starts - 2 wins - 4 x 2nds - 2 x 3rds - 2 x 4ths = $14,442 - av/start $801

    15 starts under HWOE - 1 win - 3 x 2nds -  2 x 3rds - 5 x 4ths = $12,943 - av/start $863


    No success for Just Barney this week but another successful night under the HWOE system for the Scott camp

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,321 posts

    Gilga - of course it should go to the next WA meeting or next Friday night but no - Tabcorp over east control it - and they fair dinkum have no idea.

    See tonight at melton ten races have a jackpot component in the first fours of 3.225,and one of 7,237.....would like to know where the initial money come from, or is it in house decision to stimulating t/over.. which I would like to see take place last three races at g.p on a Friday night first four betting .
  • JayJayJayJay    5,190 posts
    Oh for goodness sake, with respect, you better put up the brolly. It is both offensive, insensitive and just plain bloody wrong to imply that anyone (trainer, owner or driver for that matter) or any horse that wins a race, does so because of the benefits of HWOE. Such simplistic and generalised tripe should be served up with onions.

    Not long after it was introduced, Neighlor won a race......nothing to with his ability, his trainer or his driver was the message.....and it was a very public message, one that was espoused and published in the official form guide comments compiled by someone in the Harness Racing Office. At the time, I complained officially about the comment to the Manager of RWWA...."favoured by the new system when winning" et al was the nature of the form comment, with zero respect for the horse, the trainer or the driver ....and I finally received an apologetic email from the then Harness Racing Manager acknowledging the 'poor form" so to speak of the implications of that sort of comment in focusing on one horses success or otherwise as a leverage point to support an argument. Of the 80 or 90 horses racing at that meeting, Neighlor's form comment was the ONLY one that made reference to the new system. It was pointed very directly at me and I took great umbrage. I was advised by the Harness Racing Manager that the compiler of the form guide was to be advised to be far more circumspect in their comments.

    To focus on Just Barney and list his average dollars earned per start is in my view  selective reporting at best. There could well be a multitude of reasons as to why a horses average dollars earned per start goes up or down....races falling over, failure to get starts, changes in the horse population, changes in training routine, changes in race programming, favourable/unfavourable barrier draws, changes in driver, weather, prizemoney on offer or whatever. It is totally disingenuous to even suggest that HWOE is the reason his average dollars won per start has increased marginally. Owners and trainers have in the past, and will in the future, shift heaven and earth to place their horses as advantageously as they possibly can no matter what handicap regime is in place. I think that the process of cherry picking a particular horse and its average start earnings to support an argument is a paper thin defense of a system...for every horse that has increased earnings, there will be one that goes down. Simple as that. Further to that, to throw a cheap pie at a stable I have a connection with because it dared to win some races on Friday night.....well, it speaks for itself as a fairly below the belt action in my view.

    There are indicators as to the success or otherwise of HWOE that the fraternity waits for with increasingly shortness of breath....indicators that I will be happy to acknowledge if they paint a successful outcome......such as comparative turnover figures, comparative horse population numbers, comparative numbers of odds on favourites or horses winning in the "sweet spot" zone of TAB support, comparative numbers of horse exports, comparative numbers of horse retirements, comparative numbers of breeding/foaling/registration statistics etc etc....data that I and, I assume, many others were promised face to face at many meetings. All these things were stated reasons for introducing the change with, I think it would be fair to say, harness racing turnover being at the top of the tree.
    I don't think I live under a rock but I can't recall reading any data concerning the above indicators being publicly available, even as we approach the 9 months mark of HWOE operations.
    Handicapping is complex, no doubt about it, it is also emotional and it directly affects participants and this change was never going to seamlessly glide into a position of comfort for all participants. The most recent incarnation has had a lot of changes made from the original document along its journey in spite of initial resistance to industry concerns and that needs to be acknowledged. But it is a complex issue,  and complex issues require something more than a cherry pick of one horses stats to either justify or promote ones point of view. It would be good to see the data that was promised so that a reasoned assessment can be made.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    58 posts
    getthechange Thankyou for pointing out my horse is consistent and we have managed to find some races that he has been competitive in regardless of the CRS still doesn’t mean it can be praised.GP was second pref Narrogin LT$40k fell over due to lack of nominations where are all the horses ?
    Metro races drawn at handicappers discretion unless field split then it is just fill each race by HWOE
    It is probably something that needs to be looked at ,if there was only 1 field we probably would have got a ballot to be honest.Current form should be considered when selecting fields to pit the best performing horses against each other to make a race out of it not just a procession ,just my opinion .
    Still waiting on results of the NBM and CRS to be provided to the industry .Maybe some forums to display the results and get some industry feedback on its implementation will be provided in the near future .
    Maybe next time we head to GP we will get a bit more luck with the draw maybe we won’t thats racing

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