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Losing our top horses to the east

West Australian Racing
With the seemingly mass exodus of horses from WA going east it begs the question is the ratings system here flawed? How can it be improved?  Seems that as soon as there is a promising horse here, it doesn't get the opportunity to get a cult following that might get more people to the track before it is lost to the east. They seem to escalate up the ratings ladder so quick that there is no choice but to bail. There are a reasonable amount of good ones that seem to measure up over there so it really seems like a waste from the WA racing perspective. The competition here could be so much better if the good ones stayed and surely that would benefit group racing status, turnover etc etc. I guess the lure of the big dollars is too hard to resist. 

Comments

  • PCPC    2,190 posts
    I'd prefer them racing in the east. Better prize money and also if they are good enough they will compete in the big stage in the big races.

    That being said...it would be nice if some of the quality could stay in WA...at least for a bit before heading east.
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    the handicapping system here in the West has been flawed for some time. the many well thought arguments have been paraded on here for...am I right..years?
    could our handicapper go on a course..maybe over east?
    then again we cannot say we are wrong, can we?
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    It’s not the money, it’s the options.
    There’s multiple races every week there for highly rated horses.
    Here there’s half a dozen a year.

    oldhendo likes this post.

  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,235 posts
    Plus it seems the logistics of getting across there is easier?
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,660 posts
    Imagine a triangle, at the base are of course maidens, then up through the grades right through to where black type races begin. Well there is the first problem, it's not really a triangle, it's an hourglass.

    WA's problem as I see it, is that we have too few horses contesting our races (because we have too few Owners) and it is relatively easy for a horse to win a handful of races and run out of options. So the solution seems to be to go East, but many find it a false rating as they may have earned the points but the contests were not true tests. Very different over East though, even though in recent times WA again seems to be throwing up her fair share of competitive horses.

    My reference to an hourglass is that far too many contest black type events that are not correctly rated horses and we get better than average field sizes but far too many horses simply not up to true Group level. No more apparent than when visiting horses contest Group 1 events and their only real competition is Bob Peters. Unfortunately our Group 1's are not patronised with any depth by visiting Trainers with anything other than horses that may have missed out on Spring success with second string runners.

    I don't see this problem being addressed in the short term as WAROA seems dead in the water and RWWA made some attempt a couple of years ago, but I think the horse had left the mounting yard by then.
  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    Perth is an isolated 2nd tier racing jurisdiction. The prizemoney is low compared to Sydney/Melbourne. Of course the best horses will leave. Those stupid SWP races were a bandaid to try to
    stop the exodus.

    oldhendo, prodigy91 likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited August 2019
    I don't at all get comments re our stake money here being low.
    And it doesn't tie in with other comments re lower grade horses.
    You can be running around here with a lesser horse, making $70k+ for a standard Saturday win.
    What do you think that same horse would be making in MEL / SYD, and at twice the cost ?

    IMO the costs here are very affordable, and the stakes very enticing.

    Additionally - If it's not adding up for you because you're out there buying $300k / $400k yearlings etc, well then that's where you're going wrong - it's not the stakes on offer here.
    Very few of those purchases would make money no matter where they race......

    As for the logistics (and costs) of getting our horses east - very hard and very expensive.
    But there comes a point where you have no option (literally - no options here for races).

    Nevershowsurprise, Flanders likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    As for owner numbers - what retail market in Perth isn't currently screaming re lack of customers ?

    Flanders likes this post.

  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    Canterbury today, minimum race $50k and that includes a maiden. Belmont today 20-30k. Hawkesbury tomorrow minimum $35k with the Rowley Mile (LR) $150k. 
    Randwick Saturday a class 2 for 75k, benchmark races at 125k with stakes races 160k-500k.
     
  • NevershowsurpriseNevershowsurprise    995 posts
    And a 10 x bigger pool of quality horses to compete with than Perth at minimum of twice the cost to race.

    Perth the best by far training fee/p’money ratio in the country.

    Tivers, Manchild likes this post.

  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,235 posts
    Re training this I have to agree with. I saw a mates bill for a horse with John Thompson over there, who I wouldn't consider one of the top trainers. It was astronomical, 2.5x what you would pay here
  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    Sorry, I thought the topic of the thread was "Losing our top horses to the east". Somehow it's morphed into value for money in training bread and butter horses.
     I wonder what it costs to train a horse in the bush in NSW. As far as I can tell, they race for a minimum of 22k. Then if you get one good enough, you're close enough to the really big money.
     
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Rodent said:

    Canterbury today, minimum race $50k and that includes a maiden. Belmont today 20-30k. Hawkesbury tomorrow minimum $35k with the Rowley Mile (LR) $150k. 

    Randwick Saturday a class 2 for 75k, benchmark races at 125k with stakes races 160k-500k.
     
    Yes, but would the winner of our race here today win that race there ?
    Is my point...........
    Probably not, it would be running in a lesser grade (and paying) race at a lesser track.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Rodent said:

    Sorry, I thought the topic of the thread was "Losing our top horses to the east". Somehow it's morphed into value for money in training bread and butter horses.

     I wonder what it costs to train a horse in the bush in NSW. As far as I can tell, they race for a minimum of 22k. Then if you get one good enough, you're close enough to the really big money.
     
    Comments were made that we are losing our top horses because of the money.
    I'm just saying that isn't the reason, as presented.
    For money yes, but but way of opportunity...............not because our racing doesn't pay (at lower levels).

    Maybe take a look at said horses that are / have departed - and what $ they have made here.
    What have comparable horses over East made at same point ?
  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    Competition is a valid point. It depends. Given the success of WA horses in the east, I reckon a few that have run 2nd to Bob Peters' horses may have won instead had they gone east.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    edited August 2019
    Possibly so, but Gatting (for one example) has still racked up $1.4m in earnings here regardless.
  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    edited August 2019
    Gatting has been managed magnificently. Every time a horse comes along that is better than him (Come Play With Me), they go east and Gatting remains at the top of the heap! In all sincerity, you have done a great job with Gatting.
     p.s how did CPWM only get 1 point for beating Gatting last start? If they met in a handicap next start, CPWM would meet Gatting much better at the weights for having beaten him convincingly.
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    You can make good money here anyway, is the point - and easier than would make it in the East (less competition).
    But with all - there reaches a ceiling.
    Sometimes that's the horses own ceiling. Sometimes that's the race options ceiling - and they head east.
  • FlandersFlanders    1,197 posts
    I was just thinking... are horses here given higher ratings quicker so that the overall standard appears better? And also to make the status of our group races look better, therefore maintaining their status rather than risking them being downgraded? Or lost altogether in some cases?

    Thewogboys likes this post.

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