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GP- 29/11 4yo Classic

Harness & Greyhounds
Race 1- Hy Leexciting
Race 2- Queen Shenandoah
Race 3- Ocean Ridge
Race 4- Speed Man
Race 5- Shockwave
Race 6- Bob Wheel
Race 7- Major Spoilt
Race 8- Unwritten Rule
Race 9- Infatuation
Race 10- Lord Liam
Race 11- My Sweet Deal

Comments

  • ToepuntitToepuntit    222 posts
    Decampo might get a bit of a holiday or a very light pocket after his comments pre race after the protest, recons he was robbed by the stewards..... sorry mate you robbed yourself by not keeping your horse going straight in the run to the line
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,116 posts
    Toepuntit said:

    Decampo might get a bit of a holiday or a very light pocket after his comments pre race after the protest, recons he was robbed by the stewards..... sorry mate you robbed yourself by not keeping your horse going straight in the run to the line

    Without seeing the head on film its hard to comment

    How i saw it - top of the straight - the other horse had Shockwave cold  ( given it made a long sustained run ) however the key to me is the last 20-30 metres - was there any interference - because on face value Shockwave did a bit of a Pure Steel/Gammalite - just wouldnt let the other horse go past it - but need to see head on film last 30 metres to see if there was any interference
  • rooster321rooster321    168 posts
    No contact between them neither driver stopped driving for me a horrible decision
  • ToepuntitToepuntit    222 posts
    Doesn’t need to be contact, ran up the track and took the other one with it, had he kept it straight would the outside horse caught it?
  • jumjum    2,730 posts
    Toepuntit said:

    Doesn’t need to be contact, ran up the track and took the other one with it, had he kept it straight would the outside horse caught it?

    There should be at least 2 upheld decisions every race meeting then if that is the case. This happens very regularly and nothing happens. 

    savethegame, AbbysAce likes this post.

  • ToepuntitToepuntit    222 posts
    Voak did have to change course slightly to avoid contact, that’s why upheld,
  • JayJayJayJay    5,428 posts
    Watched it live on the grass at the winning post, first thought was I turned to the people I was with and said "Monkey's horse has been run up the track, there is a nose in this, there will be a protest for sure"."  I was on Patrick so no vested interests. Watched the replay ....they finished 5 or 6 carts off the pegs (they started 2/3 carts on the corners. Went "Yep, this is a chance of being upheld". Watched the head on this morning, watched the submissions, Voak handled the situation extremely well, he was logical and won the day...he did have to check slightly, the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, when you are traveling at an angle, you have to go further. So I think correct decision....as he said, awful way to win a group 1, a bugger for Ryan Bell, really feel for him...but I think there is a very good argument to uphold. This will be talked about and disputed for ages but that was going to be the case no matter which way the decision went. The shift out was substantial, the margin very small. I agree that some previous should have possibly been upheld. That said, it was a helluva race, the Reed horse in front blew up a lot of chances, they were flying from start to finish.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • Consistency, more protests will be upheld now? Up until last night it was almost impossible to win a protest.

    Shockwave kicked on and fought for that victory and a “slight” check where Voak and De Campo both didn’t stop driving should’ve been dismissed for mine. Carts didn’t touch and in a Group 1 that is an out of this world decision for mine.

    That being said well done to Mouse, Voak and Sangue Reale who has been absolutely flying and I’m stoked for all of them but I can’t help but feel sick in the stomach for Belly and Aiden.

    VillageKid, jum, Betonme likes this post.

  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,571 posts
    I have to admit the wallet is hurting having backed Shockwave but emotion aside it was an exciting race and finish and a great precursor to what is the 4yo GF in the Golden Nugget in a fortnight.
    Will be interesting to see the final field for the Nugget as a couple of highly fancied types have not performed up to expectations in the 2 x 4yo classic lead up races whilst a few underrated types have well and truly cemented their spot and  deservedly so.
    Barrier draws will obviously play a big part in the initial market and race pattern, will we see another Robbie Easton or Bletchley Park take off like a scolded cat type leader?.....it certainly makes for an exciting race when it does occur!

  • Chris Voak didn't protest, it was the trainer. Voak didn't even ask to view the film! If he had been interfered with he would have protested immediately!

    If you get a chance to watch the rwwa harness twitter feed have a look at Voaks face when it's upheld. He is shocked!
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,116 posts
    Well theres 2 sides to every view or arguement - no actually theres 3 sides - yours - theirs and the truth

    How i look at it - i think the race could have gone another 100 metres - and Shockwave still  wouldnt have let Voaks horse go past it

    However one thing i am happy about that protest decision being upheld - is it might stop drivers ( and this happens a hell of alot over East ) - where the leader at the top of the straight - will intentionally come 2-3 carts wider ( not interfering with the run on horse ) so its horse can see the other horse coming and will kick on

     Iwill never forget Gary Willets after he had been sacked - lost the ride on the great Manikato ( 4-5 William Reid stakes wins ) and they said to him - how do you beat Manikato . And he said - the trick is - come very wide with your run - so Manikato cant see that swooping horse . He said if Manikato sees that other horse - it will kick - and wont let that other horse go past.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,582 posts
    For years have wonder why each track hasn't a grid drawin up, regards the length of straight width of track taken from the point where one full cart length,from the radius of bends at which point the straight forms a rectangle  to arrive at measure how much extra ground is covered in half cart increments with the shift be it half a cart or six carts.,,These charts  accessible to all and sundry,which can justify decisions.---Jay Jay--- Pythagoras ? wasn't paying attention

    Nothing will alter the stewards but  I see at least 5-10 a week,around australia with horses make another runner shift up the  track  and drivers don't even protest,Can remember watching a couple over the years,runners from two carts out forcing another runner to with in one cart from outside  fence both protests were dismissed,.but some stewards interpretation varys significantly from others  ,the guide lines for 45 years I know of he, didn't stop driving so he wasn't impeded----dismissed, until Craig Williams used the  intimidation line
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,582 posts
    V.K. Weren't on fixed odds --- tabtouch only honours  fixed markets regards a protest being up- held and pays out on both.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,548 posts
    I would imagine that decision sets a precedent from here on. Basic mathematics tells us that if you are forced by any means to travel on an hypotenuse rather than the straight line down to the finish you cover more ground than you need to and thus are impeded. That said it was a margin call given the other factors such as momentum, proximity to finish and assessment of each of the horses physical response to the pressure of the situation. 
    The fact that the relationships between trainers ,drivers and owners are almost incestuously intertwined above a certain level in WA  means there is more thought that goes into the obligation to lodge an objection than meets the eye. Better to whistle while the world goes by rather than bite the hand that might be feeding you later on.
    Pedantic I realise but an objection 3rd  v 2nd  in the next race would have been not unreasonable to be considered under the same rationale.
    Clearly if shifting off your line outwards from the top of the straight becomes the absolutely predominant determinant factor then decisions are easier to arrive at.....in much the same fashion as fines for allowing inside runs to opponents are regularly issued then drivers will be obliged to straighten and possibly lose momentum rather than win the race and argue about it later. Its a hard one...driving horses getting very tired and remaining in a straight line is vastly more difficult than riding a motorbike in a straight line.
    Plenty will have to agree to disagree on this one


  • Is it true that Voak was telling people after the race that he didn't think he could protest because his horse was getting up the track itself? Not because it was being pushed wider.

    It was a $100k group one. I'm sure he wasn't worried about offending anyone by protesting. He would have protested if he thought there were any grounds.
  • ToepuntitToepuntit    222 posts
    no idea but he was very good in the stewards roo
  • ToepuntitToepuntit    222 posts
    Not sure the horse had much choice but to get up the track
  • jesteressjesteress    100 posts

    I would imagine that decision sets a precedent from here on. Basic mathematics tells us that if you are forced by any means to travel on an hypotenuse
    Plenty will have to agree to disagree on this one


    Basic maths tells you it makes nearly no difference shifting out a few meters over the length of the straight, it’s not the length of the bottom line it’s the difference in length of the 2 long lines which is minuscule... had every chance outside horse
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,116 posts
    The pleasing thing for mine about the protest being upheld - is hopefully it might stop horses leading and shifting out - getting very close or making contact  to the horse to its outside

    Monday night  - race 2 at Canberra - is a classic example - i had a decent bet e/w bet  on Whos Driving at the $12 - it had all the momentum - but the leader - and the woman driving even looked to her right - and then comes out a cart - impedes/half flattens my horse - but the winning margin is 1 metre - so no protest - cant lose the race

    I am sick to death of seeing that happen
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,811 posts
    Thought the protest should have been dismissed mainly due to no contact and Voak never stopped driving in the run to the line.

    Having said that if it stops the practice of horses being allowed to run up the track some good may come from it. Consistency will be the key something the stewards are not renowned for.

    Voak was very gracious in victory and went up in my estimation in the way he handled the situation.  

    VillageKid, JayJay, TrackBias likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    271 posts
    edited November 2019
    Brian Gath has done it for 40 years

    78 inter dom final

    He ran Christopher Vance up the track in a miracle mile

    Protest dismissed

    There would be 100s of examples , either protest dismissed or no protest
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,582 posts
    Dead Right i asked Gavin lang about brian gath & his desire to win, his reply brain gath in the straight could alter the running line of a horse racing a metre to his left &,one a metre to his right within five strides, The question was asked in  interview done with steve mills, and 30 odd people.were present.

    Voak  has had a super lucky month, had him down for six weeks when he didn't pull out from the 1x1 on ally shar at g.p as fav.. then made ground inside marker pegs at pinjarra and held the placing, lucky pink cart.

    In for some long nights waiting on all clear.
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    271 posts

    Dead Right i asked Gavin lang about brian gath & his desire to win, his reply brain gath in the straight could alter the running line of a horse racing a metre to his left &,one a metre to his right within five strides, The question was asked in  interview done with steve mills, and 30 odd people.were present.

    Voak  has had a super lucky month, had him down for six weeks when he didn't pull out from the 1x1 on ally shar at g.p as fav.. then made ground inside marker pegs at pinjarra and held the placing, lucky pink cart.

    In for some long nights waiting on all clear.
    Very bad look on Aly shar when his mother trained the leaded and winner

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    141 posts

    V.K. Weren't on fixed odds --- tabtouch only honours  fixed markets regards a protest being up- held and pays out on both.

    I backed Shockwave on sportsbet, 30/1 a few weeks before hand. They didn't allow protest payout, was spewing. Apparently futures bets they don't do it....always find a way out!

    PackedMetalPanda, VillageKid likes this post.

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