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Early Stallion numbers for WA

Breeding
DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
Universal Ruler goes from strength to strength off the back of another class leading year at Stud. This year he covered 115 mares, up from 93 last season. He was the only Stallion standing in WA to crack the ton for this breeding season.

Sessions at 68 mares covered was second in the State, that's double his previous season. Others to have good solid seasons were Snippetson at 65, down from 70 & 73, Maschino at 64, down from 71 & 54. Patronize held his own gaining slightly at 52, up from 44 & 19. Playing God served 49, down from 75 & 57. War Chant treaded water at 46, slightly up from 41 & 47. Safeguard served 47, down from 60 & 35.

First season Stallions Bondi got 50, Jimmy Choux 41 and Ducimus served 62.

So that's the good news.

All American had a slight decline from 47 last season to 36 this season. Gingerbread Man down from 32 & 28 to this year at 20.  I'm, All The Talk fell from 63 to 30 to just 16. God Has Spoken from 80 to 76 to 26. Oratorio from 55 twice to 30. Mahuta from 46 twice to just 12. Lucky Street from 40 to 34 to 23. Rommel from 56 to 39 to 31. Vert de Grece from 63 to 55 to 27. A Lot from 51 to 16. My Admiration from 41 & 42 to 11.

There is not a return at this stage for Awesome Rock who got 65 & 63 in the two previous seasons.

So it's easy to say that the Industry has further declined, but there is a valid argument for an overall reduction in the number of Stallions as so many on this list and those not worthy of mention, are simply no longer viable. Where this leaves yearling sales in a couple of years time is also something tot think about. What sold at the 2019 Sale in terms of above average figures were simply not supported by Breeders this season with the exception of Universal Ruler (ave $45,833). Safeguard ave $67,750 and was down 20% in mares, Playing God ave $51,000 and was down over 30% in mares. Oratorio fell almost by 50% after averaging $60,642.

For the life of me, if you don't take sales figures into consideration when making your matings, what the hell are you doing taking them to the sales ring then complaining about what is happening ?

Comments

  • paraleticparaletic    3,564 posts
    Would have thought Safeguard would have got more because he can get a 2yo.

    Also think All American will get more, alot of his 2yo’s around and doing okay.

    goose likes this post.

  • TiversTivers    7,460 posts
    The correlation between sales figures and mare numbers exists only in commentary such as this.

    1. Racing is dominated by owners breeder horses.
    2. Studs / vendors mostly breed to only their own stallions.

    Thereby 90% of the mares to any particular bull, over and above it’s owners mares are breed to race covers
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
    Tivers said:

    The correlation between sales figures and mare numbers exists only in commentary such as this.

    1. Racing is dominated by owners breeder horses.
    2. Studs / vendors mostly breed to only their own stallions.

    Thereby 90% of the mares to any particular bull, over and above it’s owners mares are breed to race covers

    So why bother taking non commercial offspring to sales at all then ?
  • silkysilky    310 posts
    Looks like Mungrup were hit particularly hard this season with PG, Oratorio, A lot and Im all the Talk all down significantly in mare numbers
  • silkysilky    310 posts
    Would say that PG will recover well next season based on good results later this spring from Platoon and KC

    goose likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
    Stallion coverings in WA seemingly bounce back after racetrack success but rarely sales ring success. It's a curious phenomenon that for example, on the Gold Coast the sales ring success and subsequent matings strongly suggest that commercially it makes sense to go to the top of the tree.

    Any comment on Mungrup would only be speculation on my part, but they for a long time have moved around broodmare numbers between their resident Stallions with the support of the loyal customer base, but I don't see anything there attracting new Owner Breeders in any great numbers. I still think Oratorio is clearly their best bull.
  • TiversTivers    7,460 posts
    Exactly my point (your first paragraph).

    As for your earlier comment re non Comm to sales - I dunno. Why do people keep supporting Fremantle ?

    Bucks likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,315 posts


    For the life of me, if you don't take sales figures into consideration when making your matings, what the hell are you doing taking them to the sales ring then complaining about what is happening ?


    The decision to supply the yearlings for the sale in 2020 was made in 2017...It is very hard to react to last years successful sales options, in the next years sales rings..

    So out of all those sales ring averages how many of the 2019 sales yearlings had proved their value by the time the mating season started this year???? So its one thing to get an average prices and say you should go to that bull, but in reality its not the price they are sold for that is the most important issue to make mating decisions, it is the results on the track that are important, for all the owner breeders.

    So in trying to tie this years mating stats to last years sales stats is erroneous, and not relevant to what owner/breeders are doing. They want results, not average prices
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
    I think you miss my point. Sales are in February, mares don't go to Stud until September. There is plenty of time to assess commercial aspects of any Stallion with such a lengthy lead time. So what is red hot in the marketplace can be visited seven months later.
  • TiversTivers    7,460 posts
    Yes, but as I said - the (few) people breeding for sales don’t care about that.
    They breed what they breed because that’s the stallion/s they own.
    May be a handful of sales horses bred to “best fit stallion” at most.

    RIO likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,315 posts
    Yes so those breeding to sell are breeding to their stallions, or leading stallions like Blackfriars, and now UR.

    Those breeding to race, go to the best matched stallion based on a lot of things other than commercial return at a sale.

    I do hear and understand exactly what your saying. And if the majority of animals breed in WA was for the sales, then that'd be a fair assessment. But i am confident the majority of horses bred in WA are bred to race, not to sell...  Some may be sold, but that wouldn't have been the original intent.

    jum likes this post.

  • goosegoose    1,571 posts
    If you are an owner breeder in WA you need to be prepared to be go the distance and race them so many variables in getting a yearling to the sales and making a profit.
    Mungrup should bounce back next season with Playing God flying Im All The Talk looks to be competing in same category as Oratorio, Safeguard and Sessions will be interesting how that ends up.
    A Lot is the interesting one a Caro line mare so going back to what has worked previously but not sure how Tapit line has gone in Australia?
  • silkysilky    310 posts
    Sessions will be the big beneficiary of the passing of Demerit

  • silkysilky    310 posts

    Universal Ruler goes from strength to strength off the back of another class leading year at Stud. This year he covered 115 mares, up from 93 last season. He was the only Stallion standing in WA to crack the ton for this breeding season.

    Sessions at 68 mares covered was second in the State, that's double his previous season. Others to have good solid seasons were Snippetson at 65, down from 70 & 73, Maschino at 64, down from 71 & 54. Patronize held his own gaining slightly at 52, up from 44 & 19. Playing God served 49, down from 75 & 57. War Chant treaded water at 46, slightly up from 41 & 47. Safeguard served 47, down from 60 & 35.

    First season Stallions Bondi got 50, Jimmy Choux 41 and Ducimus served 62.

    So that's the good news.

    All American had a slight decline from 47 last season to 36 this season. Gingerbread Man down from 32 & 28 to this year at 20.  I'm, All The Talk fell from 63 to 30 to just 16. God Has Spoken from 80 to 76 to 26. Oratorio from 55 twice to 30. Mahuta from 46 twice to just 12. Lucky Street from 40 to 34 to 23. Rommel from 56 to 39 to 31. Vert de Grece from 63 to 55 to 27. A Lot from 51 to 16. My Admiration from 41 & 42 to 11.

    There is not a return at this stage for Awesome Rock who got 65 & 63 in the two previous seasons.

    So it's easy to say that the Industry has further declined, but there is a valid argument for an overall reduction in the number of Stallions as so many on this list and those not worthy of mention, are simply no longer viable. Where this leaves yearling sales in a couple of years time is also something tot think about. What sold at the 2019 Sale in terms of above average figures were simply not supported by Breeders this season with the exception of Universal Ruler (ave $45,833). Safeguard ave $67,750 and was down 20% in mares, Playing God ave $51,000 and was down over 30% in mares. Oratorio fell almost by 50% after averaging $60,642.

    For the life of me, if you don't take sales figures into consideration when making your matings, what the hell are you doing taking them to the sales ring then complaining about what is happening ?


    Mungrup have revised their breeding numbers on the studbook

    New numbers are
    PG - 88
    Oratorio - 54
    A Lot - 31
    IATT - 24
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
    Those revised numbers make a huge difference to their outlook. Why would they be so far out four weeks earlier when the season is almost all done and dusted ?

    silky likes this post.

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