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What Would You Do?

Harness & Greyhounds
Given the considerable and ongoing criticism of RWWA's performance it may be an interesting exercise to have posters provide their input as to what they would do if they were placed in a position of power.

Let us restrict any new initiatives or changes to a maximum of three to see if there is any consensus out there.
+1 -1

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Comments

  • MorganJamesMorganJames    175 posts
    Work with Government to get rid of the POC tax which is affecting turnover or if keeping the tax the industry to receive a greater slice of the tax to then improve stakemoney .

    Also build a training complex of some sort to encourage younger trainers

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Great question Chariots I will put my suggestions forward without any grievances.

    5 year plan to phase out high priced imports and encourage local breeding which would take 5 yrs given the depleted breeding industry.
    5 year plan to increase support of country racing and reduce racing at GP, (midweek meetings) this may include sale of GP and new facility, also holding Friday night meetings at major country clubs for Cup nights, the list goes on.
    Equal advertising and promotion of all 3 codes regardless of turnover.
    Incentives for young trainers, could be financial base payment, training facilities, concessions, anything, something would be great.
    Stop focusing on turnover/profit and focus on getting horse,people back to meetings, ownership, training etc.
    RADICAL to get horse population back up RWWA initially purchase 100 (Australian bred horses) and lease them out to young trainers until numbers recover. At the moment would rather see something like this than stakes increase that just goes back overseas.


    Just a few suggestions the list goes on.

    TrackBias, cisco, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    There was a hue and cry when HRA introduced the fee ,for NZ imports. There were suggestions that the imports would reduce greatly.

    The import fees were directed to the state of import with funds being used to promote the breeding industry.

    Short of RWWA paying an additional $10k for each yearling sold at the sales I suspect there is little more than can be done. Import Fees, Epona, substantial increase in Westbred races, Owners and Breeders bonuses have done little to arrest the breeding decline.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Is this suggestions or opinions.
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    560 posts
    edited January 2020
    POC tax here to stay

    Go back to old handicapper system with a few changes. Drop back a class after 8.

    Open the gates for free , Run a bus around the CBD from 5pm to 7 pm picking up from businesses, drop them off with a free 1st drink

    Get the on course reporter who interviews drivers just before the race to run a punters club over summer 

    JimmyPop, cisco, Chris likes this post.

  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Newby Here so go easy.
    1- 1 import only per stable per race this includes E/States horses.
    2- limit of 1 Import per stable per feature race including E/ States horses and a additional fee of 2.5
    % of total prize money for race entry fee.
    3- 2 Races per race programme for trainers who are under the age of 30 . Maximum of 26 wins
    per season before you are promoted to compete with all age trainers. Once you hit 30 you will
    be able to receive the concession.

    freodockers likes this post.

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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    3- Correction once you hit 30 you loose the concession
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Hearts & Minds people get the family’s in for free summer holiday period give the kids free rides
    let them be entertained. Mum & Dad can relax have something to eat ,drink and have a $5 bet
    on each race .
    200 families betting $50 each per 10 race card = $10 000 per meet not bad little top up and
    word of mouth is your best advertisement to get families back and reverse the trend family
    environment is where GP’s future lies in the short term to mid term.
    grow)
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,246 posts
    edited January 2020
    Welcome pictureson
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts

    Hearts & Minds people get the family’s in for free summer holiday period give the kids free rides
    let them be entertained. Mum & Dad can relax have something to eat ,drink and have a $5 bet
    on each race .
    200 families betting $50 each per 10 race card = $10 000 per meet not bad little top up and
    word of mouth is your best advertisement to get families back and reverse the trend family
    environment is where GP’s future lies in the short term to mid term.
    grow)

    Free entry to GP Friday night meetings should be a no brainer in my opinion.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Not bagging the suggestions but there is hardly anything there that will revolutionise the industry and return it to the glory days.

    Although not openly stated there is a recurring view that NZ imports are holding the industry back.

    Perhaps RWWA should transfer control to the Harness Racing Socialist Party and they could introduce the following:

    • Close the WA border to all imports immediately
    • Allow three years for NZ and interstate imports to be removed from the system
    • Run only Westbred races when the three years is up
    • Air transport would no longer be an issue as no horses would be allowed into WA
    • Mares could be imported for breeding purposes but could not race here.
    • Shockwave would still be at the peak of his powers and dominate racing in Village Kid fashion.
    • WA breeding would get a shot in the arm but WA would become as irrelevant as SA on the national scene.
    Any takers?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited January 2020
    1. WA is and always has been irrelevant to everyone at the top level on the eastern seaboard unless we have huge prizemoney on offer for any particular race.This viewpoint was stated unequivocally by the  HRA Chairman (since resigned) following the initial Inters of the 3 x 1 million dollar Barnum and Bailey efforts. How many WA horses have traveled interstate and internationally to compete and return in the last 3 decades ??...do we base the WA industries relevance upon the a handful of horses that seek to win races elsewhere ? sounds ridiculous to me.
    2.How's that money from the 3 x 1 million dollar Inters series going anyway ? any been reinvested in the local industry yet ? Bottom line available anywhere ? have Aiken and Purdon stopped giggling yet ? Has the rank and file punter in TABland finished paying it off yet ? What has been the enduring impact of the financial focus on one race in terms of future industry promotion or is it a harness racing case of the sublime to the ridiculous...play on.?
    3. Every racing jurisdiction in the world( including NZ) has protectionist clauses in place to foster their local industry....except WA....the anything goes wild west. We could probably rename Perth as East Taranaki at the current rate.
    4. 2 & 3 y/o Open GR1 races only ie Golden Slipper /Oaks /Derby should be eligible to NZ bred horses. Australian Breds should be eligible for all except Westbred races.
    5. NZ Breds should become eligible for all racing here at 4 years of age and above. 2 x 4ths was the best the NZ breds could do in the recent 3 Group 4 y/o races this season. The superiority myth was exposed well and truly ...and revealed to be a propaganda piece promoted by those barns that have a business model of selective buying of advanced high priced 2 and 3 year olds and patting themselves on the back as being geniuses.
    6.The Harness Racing Capitalist Party would flood the place with tears if they were forced to adopt the stakes distribution model that operates in the global harness racing capital ...the US of A...that bastion of free enterprise where winners get 50 % of the gross prizemoney. You could hear them whingng from Mauritius. The pathetic and repeated reaching for the socialist tag as a put down/slur is in reality a hypocrital cheap and unintelligently lazy intellectual effort typical of those who think they inhabit rarified air in this industry. The recent pay back to last decision had the top end whining like the engines of a 100 747's at Perth airport......yet they line up to flog off horses into the 50% winner arena as long as they can continue restock into the 70% to the winner market of WA from NZ. What principles that reveals...mercenary me me me attitudes at best.
    7. how long before someone has the vision and foresight to bite the bullet here and apply some rigid rules that revive local interest and participation ? how many years do we see 1/4 capacity crowds witnessing 7 or more NZ bred same ownership horses in a 12 horse field before someone steps up ?
     8. Of course there needs to be a transition phase...it would be unfair and foolish to suggest otherwise.

    PictureSon1973 likes this post.

  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    277 posts

    Not bagging the suggestions but there is hardly anything there that will revolutionise the industry and return it to the glory days.

    Although not openly stated there is a recurring view that NZ imports are holding the industry back.

    Perhaps RWWA should transfer control to the Harness Racing Socialist Party and they could introduce the following:

    • Close the WA border to all imports immediately
    • Allow three years for NZ and interstate imports to be removed from the system
    • Run only Westbred races when the three years is up
    • Air transport would no longer be an issue as no horses would be allowed into WA
    • Mares could be imported for breeding purposes but could not race here.
    • Shockwave would still be at the peak of his powers and dominate racing in Village Kid fashion.
    • WA breeding would get a shot in the arm but WA would become as irrelevant as SA on the national scene.
    Any takers?
    The issue may not be so much that NZ horses are imported but the distribution of them is mainly at top level training racing and stakemoney levels .NZ imports are out of reach for many country trainers and very few are offered to country trainers to spread the NZ bred around ,gee it’s hard enough to find a westbred or Australian bred to cart around the country let alone come up against top trainers with ready to run imports and how does one become a top level trainer without the backing of very financial owners whom are able to afford these imports . I’m not against imported stock as The industry needs the racing stock and the improvement in the quality of stock.The failing breeding industry is because of many factors ,if you look over history at the geographical location of where a lot of stock were bred and where it has depleted the most it’s obvious the industry is shrinking to the coast ,with the reduction in rural tracks depletion of interest from outer sectors the loss of tracks like Harvey ,Cunderdin ,York etc must have an impact on ownership, breeding, involvement in general in the west bred product .
    1- Like any structure you need a strong foundation to build on work out some way to spread the quality of horses out more, support the generations of trainers out there giving it a go now in many districts which will lead to their kids and there kids kids getting involved again ,
    2- To build on that youth develop a training and education centre for harness racing including all aspect of equine care and welfare ,dental,farrier courses etc not just an on course stabling concept for existing participants 
    3-Go out to grass roots of the industry and communicate with the people to reassure that management is working On solutions to problems within the industry involve leaders from Botra WASBA wachra Working on a common objective of making the industry great again 

    PictureSon1973 likes this post.

  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    As you have stated curmudgeon W.A is considered as Irrelevant to E.State Racing Bodies no matter
    what spin somebody gives it’s fact .
    Money talks & people definitely listen the idea of Harness in W.A relying on RWWA to further enhance
    Prize Money is not going to happen the fact is the numbers say so ( Numbers don’t have emotion attached to them.)
    As I’ve stated previously Gloucester Park needs to be fully utilised as a Income Stream to have
    a inner City asset that is used twice a week for Harness Racing isn’t a sustainable Business
    Model.
    Having Rugby W.A & Child Care Centre as Tennants is ok but is irrelevant to the big picture.
    I believe that to achieve the best outcome as said by me previously,
    1- No Land needs to be sold it never should it just needs major Development enabling long term
    Lease arrangements on G.P Owned new Buildings this will create a Guaranteed Income Stream for Harness for Years & Purchasing of other Assets relative in enabling Harness to To Increase Prizemoney & Enable a flourishing Industry . Basically Big Money will attract new Owners creating a whole knew Demographic to Harness.
    2-More Money enables new better Breeding Incentives for Local Industry.
    3- More Money enables the Employment of Top Business individuals not from the Racing Industry who won’t have pre concieved or bias ideas. ( New Ideas thinking outside the Box )
    Relying on the Die Hards is foolish in the Long Run but don’t disrespect our views ether as Passion
    is the Nucleus of the Harness Racing Element.
    Think Big it’s the only way to get traction to get things forward.
    In reality would we be going backwards if we didn’t try or at least give consideration to new ideas?


    VillageKid likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    We are talking retrospective here.
    The NZ situation has been allowed to go unchecked for the last 20 years.
    Despite industry concerns little has been done to close the floodgates.
    This is just one issue of many that has gone unchecked for too long resulting in the position we are in today.
    Had to have a chuckle the use of Village Kid as an example dominating, just can't remember where he was from.
    Attitudes that instantly dismiss ones suggestions has been exactly what has got our industry into this position.
    If we "closed WA borders immediately" (to NZ) , where do you think the shift will be to purchasing horses will move to Chariots, see if you can answer that simple question, it might turn a light on.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Pleasing to see my provocative suggestions have fleshed out greater input than earlier efforts.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts

    Pleasing to see my provocative suggestions have fleshed out greater input than earlier efforts.

    Thought the right answers were given to rwwa- from the three consultancies group's IER PTY LTD, ALLEN CONSULTING,AND THE MARKETING CENTRE,--which---enabled the board and rwwa-- t management-to gain a better appreciation of issues, impacting on industry participants,such as owners trainers, breeders,----- so 17 years later looking for direction from the right people that can tip you what end is what, how much did them groups cost us.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    277 posts

    Pleasing to see my provocative suggestions have fleshed out greater input than earlier efforts.

    trying to remember the last NZ bred I trained EX JAY JAG NZ back in 2001 is about the only one I can think of the rest have been west bred and most of them have been double westbreds 
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Interesting comments from Shane Tritton - who along with his wife Lauren who are relocating their establishment to America ( would have preferred to stay in Aust)

    "Please take notice those in charge need to do better for everyone in this industry who rely on it to survive. This is a sport and should be fun - surviving isnt fun "
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    Thats a bit odd, thought selling Harold Park was meant to solve everything and happy days forever, just like the selling of Richmond Raceway, the closure of Cunderdin, Harvey, York, Wyalkatchem, Trayning, Merredin....lets sell Gloucester Park too...that'll solve everything.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Hey Riders - with the exception of about say a dozen trainers Aust wide - the only ones who  would be making a nice income per year from harness racing would be the freelance drivers . 

    What do they get $65 a drive plus superannuation - outside of those dozen - you would have to be a mug to train horses ( for a living ) - hobby trainers well that is different - they just love it

    You look at it Shannon Suavalko Chris Lewis Chris Alford - they basically dont train horses - Gavin Lang at his peak didnt train horses - even when Gav had a team - he offered the training to Graham ( someone - ive forgotten his name - he had a top square gaitor ) but he knocked him back - Gav knew how hard training was and didnt want to do it . I can remember Vi Frost ( when he had a big team ) saying training horses was relentless and monotonous 

    When Ben Sarina and Greg  Bennett ( Both top notch freelance drivers ) when they got warned off /disqualified - they actually disclosed their income - Sarina was making consistently  just under 100k a year - and Bennett was well over 100k - they didnt train any horses - they just  were freelances 

    Freelance drivers and about dozen trainers are the only ones making a quid out of harness racing

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Shane Trittons father Peter has been training in the US for years so without further in depth information it is hard to assess what lays behind the move. Shane Tritton has gone from being the pre - eminent Menangle trainer to a distant second to Craig Cross so far this season. Whether there is any connection or maybe the economies of scale are influencing the decision who knows without elaboration on the size of the operation inputs and expenditures.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Riders you forgot the GOLDEN MILE  the club that's was about to race for as much money as  city track Richmond raceway  ,so they changed the stakes to race distribution format.---- which was the start of there,decline, no doubt, plus 12 hour shifts introduced across the golden mile was a big blow for trainers trying to fit horses in which was too hard..

    Well the industry  still gets 25million it can hold...… W.A harness like is engulfed by fire which has two fronts with one that started  at Geraldton is burning towards g.p. is at Wanneroo.and the other fire was started  at Kalgoorlie has arrived at kelllerberrin-- heading to g.p. there may come a day g.p. has to be sold and evacuated to survive. --hope not. 

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts

    Shane Trittons father Peter has been training in the US for years so without further in depth information it is hard to assess what lays behind the move. Shane Tritton has gone from being the pre - eminent Menangle trainer to a distant second to Craig Cross so far this season. Whether there is any connection or maybe the economies of scale are influencing the decision who knows without elaboration on the size of the operation inputs and expenditures.


    I thought from his quotes it is blooody obvious - he wants to make a decent income not just survive 
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    I didn’t know that Shane & Lauren Tritton we’re relocating to the States I find that interesting as
    NSW is supposedly the State with the most upswing for Harness.
    Looks like selling Harold Park was a poisoned Chalice if one of the Top trainers in the
    State still can’t make a living how are the other participants going to survive.
    NSW bettor hope Lazarus makes it as a Stallion or heads will roll.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Perhaps @Chariotsonfire can add ...Move to USA.... to that list

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    @PictureSon1973 my saying in regards to getting rid of tracks will never change - "short term gain, for long term pain".

    With the exception of the big races at Menangle which do like, can't get to the remote fast enough to turn off the other one lap rubbish.

    Outside barriers come across and lead nearly every race - then again they've got nowhere else to go!

    Hard to believe Menangle is the the place Chris Lewis flew to about 35 years ago to try and knock off Chris Alford for the most Australian winners. Just a tight little track those days, freezing cold late winters night - and yes typical Lewis he drove at least two winners and took out the Australian title.

    Alford and Lewis both still driving successfully today - I see it, but don't believe it!

    Some in the Eastern states media went nuts for Lewis doing that but Chris Alford from memory - no problem, I've driven in a heap more bloody races!

    PictureSon1973 likes this post.

  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Ridersonthestorm33
      Alford was correct in what he said but I wonder if he truly believes he's the better driver?            
      Interesting to compare winners to drives percentages for both individuals.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts

    @PictureSon1973 my saying in regards to getting rid of tracks will never change - "short term gain, for long term pain".

    With the exception of the big races at Menangle which do like, can't get to the remote fast enough to turn off the other one lap rubbish.

    Outside barriers come across and lead nearly every race - then again they've got nowhere else to go!

    Got to agree with you Riders - Menangle is the worst and by a long way - devoid of any interest - and i dont watch or bet on it 

    Getting back to the thread topic - a few things i would do

    With both the Fremantle Cup and the Pacing Cup - both races were on too early in the night - the Freo Cup was on before 8pm - i know you have got the E/States but who cares. And i think 10 races is far too many - with such a stupid early start 

    Id have a 8 race program - 7pm start = and the feature race would-  be race 6 at about 9.30pm

    When i use to attend - those summer  meetings -( and my letter box would have free GP tickets in it often - do they do that these days )  youve had a hot day - people - not just keen Trots followers - would go out their - you had the beautiful lawns  - their was a heap of things to occupy the kids - rides etc . I can remember one night out their - they had a match race between Fred Kersley with one of his top pacers on a huge handicap - against this top line 1600 metre athlete - and it was a thrilling finish - they actually did things like that to entertain the crowd

    Dr Ernie Manea and the Pinjarra president bloke ( who actually bred the frog ) they were top notch administrators - they new if there were prizes for the kids - bmx bikes - then the parents would have to tag along 

    No more Eastern State administrators please 
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Who foots the bill for brit, graham to come over,and Hamilton RWWA,or TABCORP, wouldn't be cheap .tell us about our horses. we watch weekly

    Ernie Manea was heart soul person for the industry--on all fronts

    Ridersonthestorm33, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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