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Gloucester Park

Harness & Greyhounds
Spent three weeks holidaying in Perth. We had a fantastic time thanks to the great weather on all but two days, and friends. Mind you, driving down the Mitchell towards Polly Farmer on the day that all hell broke loose, and trying to avoid fallen trees, was an experience in itself.

We went to GP on the last two Friday nights. The last night we went, saw the running of the two 100,000 2 year old Classic races. We went both times even though there wasn't a bookie, although I have to say that we didn't expect one on the first night. We went because it was a beautiful night and we stay around the corner, and it's something to do. I was surprised that Steve Mulhall wasn't there on Classic night, but he may have been away, or he couldn't be bothered going because he would essentially have been playing to an empty house.

I reckon on night one, there would not have been more than 200 hundred there, while maybe an extra 50-100 turned up on Classic night. I say maybe, because my wife and I had no trouble at all sitting both nights, at a table in the open, opposite the winning post, and there were plenty of empty tables next to us.

And this was also with a number of areas next to us being roped off for private functions.

We hadn't been for two years, and to be brutally honest, nothing much has changed.

I complained after my last visit, that the noise from whomever was singing between the races was unbearable. 

On the two nights we were there, this had improved. Dramatically on night one, when a female singer sang some nice covers in a pleasant voice, rather than screeching, but only slightly on night two, when a male singer, with all respect, thought he was better than what he is. Luckily his amplifier wasn't at full blast so he was bearable.

Here are the continuing problems as I see them.

Why charge entry? The numbers were small on two beautiful evenings, one of which had two group 1 races. Throw the gates open. I would like to think that more people would come, provided the public were informed.They will get the money back on food and drink. $7.50 for a box of chips says it all.

The new bloke, Matty, I think his name is, doing the interviews with the drivers BEFORE the race, is, for on course patrons, a total waste of time. 

You cannot hear a word he says. He's really doing them for Sky, so turn off the on course sound. In fact he's barely audible in the after race interview. Why is this so, because the people sitting at the tables at ground level where we were, and the private functions in the roped off areas, don't give a cr@p about the interviews, and from what I saw, barely have a bet.So they all talk in stereo. 

Add to that little kids running wild on the grass, screaming while their irresponsible parents don't give a stuff until a kid hurts itself, and we are lucky to hear the course broadcast.

Yes, I'm exaggerating about that last bit, but you get my drift. 

Another thing I complained about when we were last at GP, that has not changed.

You have a bet at Moonee Valley night racing. No sound. The greyhounds anywhere. No sound. The interstate trots. No sound. 

But what really got to me, was this. The people running GP are, I would imagine, in charge of harness racing in Perth. There was a meeting at Albany harness. I thought for sure, that we would have the sound turned on for a sister meeting, in the state of WA, run by the genii who conduct harness racing in the state. It was a case of, up yours people who have bothered to come to the track. P!!ss off. we don't want you here. Get down to your local TAB or pubtab, if you actually want to hear a race. No sound for Albany trots.

So, unless you know the colour of your jockey driver etc, or you can pick up the saddle cloth number, you won't know what's happening. I reckon all of you who have been to GP know where PJ's bar is under the stand and the bank of screens that are there, along with two huge screens. 

On one of those screens they were showing a replay of a womens 20/20 cricket match. Guess what, LOUD commentary supplied. A cricket match yes, races, dogs, trots, no.

I noted the very poor win pools in some races barely reaching 6,000. Not many trifecta and first four pools hit 8 grand. It is quite obvious to me, that interest in the trots, by the average person in Perth is zero, and the powers that be, don't care. 

Look, for our purposes, it was a reasonably relaxing night out.  However, if I lived in perth and wasn't on a holiday where generally speaking you want to do stuff that you don't do at home, they would never see me there.

I don't know who is running the joint, but they need to be replaced if possible, with people who actually want harness racing in Perth to advance to a point where at the very least, the on course patron, the person who is prepared to get off their posterior and make the effort to go, is taken care of.

Things weren't going too well two years ago when we last went. BUT, two years ago,we could NEVER get a table, let alone one right opposite the winning post. 

I reckon that fact alone, says it all.


   









+1 -1

curmudgeon likes this post.

Comments

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    edited March 2020
    BL, I was there both of those nights, probably standing within metres of you watching the races. Michael Radley tells me he welcomes feedback. Can I suggest you forward your post to him (CEO, Gloucester Park Harness Racing). I have corresponded with him about similar instances and have always been afforded a prompt reply. I think numbers wise, you may have been slightly conservative, upstairs areas and the Sales Function were pretty packed, and Chinese New Year night was a very large attendance. Matt Young was standing in that night with the on track pre race interviews which as you say are predominately for Sky, Tom Buchanon the normal guy. Matt generally does a great job so a bit surprised with your comments. Lack of commentary on complimentary WA meetings on the same night is frustrating....and the volume of the on course commentary does vary at times.

    VillageKid, Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    I remember your last critique BL ...and like this one it was challenging .....but fair.
    Plenty of food for thought there.......definition between the on course and televised experience being a conundrum for sure. 

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    1,054 posts
    Its not just G.P .Its Australia wide and not just trots.. 
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    JayJay said:

    BL, I was there both of those nights, probably standing within metres of you watching the races. Michael Radley tells me he welcomes feedback. Can I suggest you forward your post to him (CEO, Gloucester Park Harness Racing). I have corresponded with him about similar instances and have always been afforded a prompt reply. I think numbers wise, you may have been slightly conservative, upstairs areas and the Sales Function were pretty packed, and Chinese New Year night was a very large attendance. Matt Young was standing in that night with the on track pre race interviews which as you say are predominately for Sky, Tom Buchanon the normal guy. Matt generally does a great job so a bit surprised with your comments. Lack of commentary on complimentary WA meetings on the same night is frustrating....and the volume of the on course commentary does vary at times.

    Not to mention the state of the TV screens closer to the track that are covered in dust and mud (since the storm 3 weeks ago) and in which GP staff have been informed of and had not cleaned or wiped down for the last 2 Friday night meetings and that is if the screens are actually working!!

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    209 posts
    It is a bug bear of mine that they charge entry. Throw the gates open. Then you don't need to pay people to man them. 

    I like the pre race interviews, its hard to hear on course, contrary I wish they turn it up..!

    When they have friday night footy on, do get a few to come in watch the screens. Certainly should be managing it better to watch racing and hear it. 
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    560 posts
    CEO is up in the carbine club drinking free alcohol, blowing wind up the ones who pay his wage, no intention on improving the place or even trying something different. 

    JimmyPop, Offthebit likes this post.

  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts
    JayJay said:

    BL, I was there both of those nights, probably standing within metres of you watching the races. Michael Radley tells me he welcomes feedback. Can I suggest you forward your post to him (CEO, Gloucester Park Harness Racing). I have corresponded with him about similar instances and have always been afforded a prompt reply. I think numbers wise, you may have been slightly conservative, upstairs areas and the Sales Function were pretty packed, and Chinese New Year night was a very large attendance. Matt Young was standing in that night with the on track pre race interviews which as you say are predominately for Sky, Tom Buchanon the normal guy. Matt generally does a great job so a bit surprised with your comments. Lack of commentary on complimentary WA meetings on the same night is frustrating....and the volume of the on course commentary does vary at times.

    Hi Jayjay,

    Sorry for the late reply.

    I'm a once every two to three years visitor, although she who must be obeyed is insisting that health permitting, we come back same time next year. And I, a mere pawn in her hand, cannot refuse.

    With respect to sending the CEO the post, I wouldn't have a clue how to do it. 

    I am sure however, that you being a well known owner and regular, at least that's what I glean from reading this site, would be able to alert him to my comments and he can read them.

    Mind you, if he doesn't bother reading the comments on PTT about the state of harness racing in W.A, written by those who have the health, welfare and future of harness racing in the state deep in their hearts, then he isn't doing his job.

    And based on AbbyAce post, it appears that he isn't!
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    BL, from what I understand, I am very sure that everything posted on here, either about the handicap system, stewarding, driving, the history side of things or whatever is watched with an eagle eye.....a very eagle eye. But if its okay with you, I will copy and paste your appraisal and email it to Michael in case his missed it. But I would strongly suspect he has read it already.

    Last night was not a big crowd, the music was at an appropriate level, the kids on the lawn were still having a "ball" (I actually don't mind that) and as much as I would like to say the racing was good, given the program and the RBD in operation to the detriment of betting in most races, it was all a bit ho hum and predictable. Vampiro the star turn with his speed off the arm.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    I tell you what Jay Jay - Vampiro showed that speed at the start in the front straight where the start is fair 

    I dont bet at GP - i was betting at Shepparton and Young - but i listened to Ritchie Bells call in the car - re Miss Sangriel having a go for the lead from gate 9 at the disgraceful unfair 2100 metres starting point ( it should be 100 metres further back -) but they are too dumb to work that out 

    You watch a replay - and just focus purely on the mobile arm/gate - and that gate is not straight - you dont have to be an enginer to notice 

    That mobile arm is on angle - its like the no 1  is one metre in front of number 9- no wonder GP unlike every track in Aust the wide drawn horses  have got no hope of crossing - no even a remote chance 

    Ive watched a replay about 3-4 times and i have focussed solely on that mobile arm and it is definitely not straight - its on a blooody angle

    AbbysAce likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts
    Can not believe tonights meeting was called off due to the state of the track.

    Surely they could have just waited for half an hour or so for it to dry out a bit and have another crack, its not like we've had 3 inches of rain and another 3 inches are coming. I had a decent puddle at my front door, have been for a walk around the block and it is gone, this decision has to have been made far too hastily.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    Barely a light sprinkle up in the Northern Suburbs Gil it is unbelievable that another meeting has been called off due to the track condition!
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    RWWA trying to transfer the meeting to Thursday. Announcement tomorrow.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    Lets hope Thursday is a goer Chariots, we cannot afford to lose meetings at anytime let alone in the present climate.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    To be fair, they copped a deluge ....around 20mm in quick time I am told, flooded down.

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    ABC weather said the rain today was more than the Perth March avg ....so a bit unlucky. Sometimes as the genius onion eater once said...shite happens. 
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts
    My shock is that they just didn’t give it some time to drain away. I got caught out in it, did bucket down but then it cleared
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    They did put the start time back and there is footage on Twitter of them trying to get it ready, spreading extra topping but it looked a lost cause, very wet.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    209 posts
    Was surprised as I was in central Perth and rain didn't seem that bad. I did see the footage and it def fish tailed a bit the mobile, so think track was under a cloud burst. Meeting would have gone on if was Pinjarra ;)
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    edited March 2020
    Thankfully the original meeting set down for GP on Tuesday which was washed out was able to be run today instead albeit with smaller fields.

    JayJay, curmudgeon likes this post.

  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts
    JayJay said:

    BL, from what I understand, I am very sure that everything posted on here, either about the handicap system, stewarding, driving, the history side of things or whatever is watched with an eagle eye.....a very eagle eye. But if its okay with you, I will copy and paste your appraisal and email it to Michael in case his missed it. But I would strongly suspect he has read it already.

    Last night was not a big crowd, the music was at an appropriate level, the kids on the lawn were still having a "ball" (I actually don't mind that) and as much as I would like to say the racing was good, given the program and the RBD in operation to the detriment of betting in most races, it was all a bit ho hum and predictable. Vampiro the star turn with his speed off the arm.
    No problem at all Jayjay. Feel free to send it to him.
    I hope things blow over in the next six months with this bloody virus and we all survive it, so we can get back to GP next year to see if there have been any changes.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts

    JayJay said:

    BL, from what I understand, I am very sure that everything posted on here, either about the handicap system, stewarding, driving, the history side of things or whatever is watched with an eagle eye.....a very eagle eye. But if its okay with you, I will copy and paste your appraisal and email it to Michael in case his missed it. But I would strongly suspect he has read it already.

    Last night was not a big crowd, the music was at an appropriate level, the kids on the lawn were still having a "ball" (I actually don't mind that) and as much as I would like to say the racing was good, given the program and the RBD in operation to the detriment of betting in most races, it was all a bit ho hum and predictable. Vampiro the star turn with his speed off the arm.
    No problem at all Jayjay. Feel free to send it to him.
    I hope things blow over in the next six months with this bloody virus and we all survive it, so we can get back to GP next year to see if there have been any changes.
    Mate - the CEO - Greg Radleys brother has been their 7-8 years - not 7-8 months - hes had his chance - i mean reading this read - even some of the staunchest defenders of GP are dissappointed in how run down the joint is at the moment 

    The most dissappointing fact about GP is the track is 40 years out  of date and as a result harness racing isnt showcased anywhere near its best or potential , 

    The track measurements say it all - 800 metre track - with a 140 metre straight - sure it is in a very picturesque setting - but Tasmania have also got a very picturesque setting - right on the banks of the magnificent Derwent river - but the big difference is - they have got a 970 metre track ( perfect size) with a 200 metre straight - as a result harness racing is showcased at its very best - its great to watch - its great to bet on - all horses have got an opportunity to win 

    Bookielover - you seem more of a gallops man - to put a gallops context on it - it would be like having the main Syd metro gallops run every week on a tiny front runners goat track like say Gosford  - that would be shocking  wouldnt it - terrible to watch - well that is GP to a tee - because the track isnt big enough 

    bookielover likes this post.

  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts
    edited March 2020
    I know exactly what you mean, Markovina. 

    Frankly, just as an observer, and a once in year or two visitor, I find it difficult to comprehend how they have the capacity to provide really decent prize money by any standards, $400,000 I think it is for the WA cup, and $300,000 for the Freo cup, happy to be corrected if I have named the races incorrectly, plus other 100,000 races, but they have never spent a zac improving, just for a start, the track.

    Now, I can understand those who oppose a sprint lane, ON A LARGE TRACK LIKE MENANGLE, and as you pointed out, in Tassy.You have to be really stiff not get out of a pocket at both.

    But at GP. Give me a break. You can be coasting behind the leader, and never see daylight because of the tight turning nature of the track, which is your point exactly.

    If they have no intention at all of altering the dimensions of the track for the foreseeable future, why not put in a sprint lane, at least for a trial for say 4 meetings, just to see how it affects the way the races are run.

    I reckon, it would cause a huge change in tactics, especially by drivers who, at this point in time, know that they can go straight to the front, stack them up,hold up all the way down the straight so the horse behind the leader can't possibly get out, and win 9 times out of 10.

    Look, I admit that I'm no expert in the trots caper, but in days gone by when I used to punt on two flies crawling up a wall, I was an avid trots punter. 

    There is no doubt that sprint lanes at Albion Park and Melton, and anywhere else they have been put in, mean that results of many of the  races are well in doubt until they cross the line, and the driver in front, is well aware that, irrespective of the price of the horse behind him, unless he is travelling so well that he knows he can sprint away and win, his horse in in grave danger of being beaten. Not so, on a track like GP, if he can stack them up, and the horse in the death doesn't weaken.

    The place is run down, the service to on track punters which I described above is appalling. 

    That they won't correct, at the very least, the service to the punters, i.e. have the sound on when a race is being run, is a given. they haven't done it since 2008, when I was there, so why change now.

    They will continue to charge for entry, so that people can come and "enjoy" the terrible service to punters.

    They won't change the configuration of the track.

    So, just so they can justify their existence, how about trialling a sprint lane, and lets see how it affects what I saw was the disgraceful tote pools on most races. 

    If punters believe that their horse has a chance of winning no matter where the horse has been drawn because a sprint lane has been added,  they will be more inclined to bet, increasing turnover, which is, at the very least,  what the CEO and his committee, should be trying to achieve.

    It appears to me, and I say this with great respect to JayJay, that they really don't care.

    Therefore, GP will be permitted to plod along, facilities such as they are will deteriorate further, and will provide for most of their meetings, boring, predictable racing. 







    JimmyPop, curmudgeon likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    edited March 2020
    BL, far be it for me to mount a defense of GP, some of the things you raise re broadcast volumes, coverage of on course of "local" meetings from country venues (and in VK's instance dirty TV screens) on the same night etc are indefensible And the argument against a sprint lane tends to revolve around the positioning of the light tower on the turn into the straight and the general wide variety of opinions for and against. The sprint lane installed at Albany has been pretty much a waste of time given the short home stretch down there but that is a separate argument.

    There are in my mind two major issues that effect the style of racing. One has been much canvassed already, some would say ad nauseum, and that is the handicapping system, and without regurgitating old arguments about which there is great polarisation amongst the fraternity, let me give a couple of examples as to why the preponderance of RBD and the senseless Group Preferential Draw system is at the heart of the problem. Race 3 last night, an RBD, became a non event the moment that the very much in form and high earning Rock Me Over randomly drew gate 1. With the exception of Bettor Party, a grand old campaigner with more money earned but zero form, Rock Me Over had clearly earned more stakemoney than all other runners. The FFA was an even worse example. The conditions of the race say Preferential Group Barrier draw based on HWOE greater than $100k with the groupings starting for horses above HWOE of $150k. Only one horse had a HWOE over 150k, Vultan Tin, so he gets barrier 9, a position he should get used to. The rest of the field being under $150k then reverted to a RBD. Shockwave won the raffle and the race at prohibitive odds, and because his HWOE remains under $150k, he is eligible for the same race under the same conditions next week and could conceivably draw barrier 1.There were horses in that race that were eligible for the last 5 starts HWOE less than $30k....but that race fell over as it often does...and so they go into the FFA. Shockwave is a serious, serious horse, make no mistake and deserves his chance in the sun but it's picking fruit off the sideboard at the moment for him and if he starts again next week, there will be another non competitive race and although I haven't checked, probably the next FFA as well. Others don't see it as I do and think that what we have is the best system, the debate will probably be endless but for mine, the introduction of simple, no strings attached PBD will produce better racing.Currently as it stands, old mate Chariots is picking strings of winners, 20 in a row at last count, such is the predictable nature of the outcome.
    On the track configuration....there is no room to extend the track at the Eastern end of the course (home turn)....Nile Street is a designated delivery road to the "bridge" to the stadium and the Casino and has extensive and no doubt expensive new housing developments. There is not a chance in hell of that changing. At the Western end, existing infrastructure gets in the way, the Fraternity stand, the alignment of existing buildings, some of which I believe are heritage listed like the old Tote buildings, the end stand and associated function room etc. It could be changed and maybe they could get another 100m into the track, realignment of the back straight into pre existing car parks...there is probably a pre existing preliminary drawing somewhere showing how this could be done.....but it would be a major and extremely expensive undertaking. Any larger track extension would presumable encroach on the stabling area, I don't know, I am no architect. So if it is a given that about 900m is as large as you could go, is that big enough? The best racing I have ever witnessed was at the 900m Moonee Valley track, hands down, I thought it was brilliant racing and bemoan the fact that they aren't still racing there, a magnificent venue. Others believe a 1000m track is optimal, it is a moot point. Either way, it would cost buckets.

    But given the structure of racing under the RWWA  governance model, all debate comes down to funding the change. Although Gloucester Park owns the venue, they don't have any money to redevelop....I could be corrected but they have been losing money each year for ages . They are just a club, like all the other Harness Racing Clubs, a venue where RWWA choose to run the premier Friday Night meeting, they rely on food and beverage and on course tote betting for their cash, plus meeting fees etc paid to them by RWWA. They don't control funding of Harness Racing as we all know, that is RWWA's job. So for anything to happen to GP, it would require a large input from either Government (unlikely) or RWWA (even more unlikely)  .......and I doubt it will happen in my life time. I remember seeing some master plan development years back with apartments and the like and if I recall correctly, a 1000m track but I think it was a "tell em their dreaming" plan which given the current economic decline and the impending corona virus driven Armageddon, will never eventuate.
    To improve racing, they have tinkered around the edges for decades, varying starting configurations and distances, altering the camber, introducing a new handicapping system at odds with rest of Australia....and we all have views on whether that has improved the situation to a less, great or non extent. I'll put in a disclaimer that I think that's how it all works but I can't see much, if anything, changing in the near term.

    curmudgeon, TrackBias, VillageKid likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    edited March 2020
    Poor ol GP ...even the revenue from providing parking for Optus events has gone guts up at this stage.
    Its another Chinese Covid 19 conspiracy they reckon.
    When tipsters are tipping 20 winners and a second out of 21 suggestions.....a lifetime of having pretty regular bets tells me there are underlying conditions affecting the results that ultimately will not be of kind disposition to the industry turnover.
    Talk about cruelling a horse....what the draws have done to old mate Vultan Tin under this system....one of the bravest FFAllers here for years....is criminal.  
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Hey Curmudge - i know Jay Jay has mentioned it - re sticky marbles in the computer/lotto barrel -where stablemates keep drawing next to each other - eg 6-7-8  in the same race - i mean Jay Jay has given numerous examples

    But i tell you what over the years at GP - how many times - and in big races to - does the best horse draw barrier 1 - id like a quid for every time that has happened 
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    A lot more often since RBD replaced actual handicapping Marko
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Please give me a break! run down / better facilities required to all / more astute management
    benevolent to all participants definitely / Better systems required for longevity of Horses and
    their racing lives . I definitely agree upon
    But one would have to be naive to think that unlike the 2 major Ball codes in Australia who are
    subsidised apparently by Government that Harness Racing but also the other 2 Codes in WA
    are able to provide the facilities / experience / Revenue raising opportunities that those 2 Codes
    have.
    Our facilities apart from the Grey Hound track ( a miniature version of the original for spectators)
    are all pre 1970 ( I stand to be corrected ! ) ( Most of the facility’s have had minimal change )
    AFL Stadiums apart from MCG no older than 20 years old .
    If we’re honest with our selves what revenues does Managemt have to improve anything
    NOTHING. ( One can only attempt to do the best with what recourse’s are available to them )
    Unfortunately things are going to remain life will go on and while extremely frustrating
    I would rather be in GP ‘s situation than any other harness club in a Australia even with its short comings.
    In regards to Sprint Lanes they haven’t improved turn over the horse 3 back on the pegs is still
    blocked for a run so you can’t please everyone you never will in life unfortunately.
    Gallops got all the space and length of straight which is way longer than GP and still get blocked
    for runs that is a call / desicion the punter needs to educate themselves upon.
    The 3 Codes are a blast from the past the perception that the younger generations would get
    the buzz they give us would be less than double digits percentage wise not with Social Media
    & Gamings Influence upon them.
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Get rid of Corporate Bookmakers .
    TAB / TOTE & On Track Bookmakers only aloud to operate on all National & International
    Racing to all Australians & Visitors to Australia
    ( There’s a blast from the past but it might just be the saviour of all a Race Clubs )
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts
    Have said it umpteen times but when the track is heavier/slower it just plays so much farer. Granted the quality of horses is slow so that will give you slower times but the first 3 today have been cracker races from that grade of animal. 

    Get away from the idea of presenting a track where they can break the land speed record at GP and we would have much better racing week in week out. 

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