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WA Pacing Cup Field

Harness & Greyhounds

The final field in alphabetical order is:

1             BLETCHLEY PARK

2             BRAEVIEW BONDI

3             CHICAGO BULL NZ

4             CONVERT DENARIO NZ

5             GALACTIC STAR NZ

6             JACK FARTHING NZ

7             MIGHTY CONQUEROR NZ

8             OCEAN RIDGE NZ

9             PERFECT MAJOR

10           TO FAST TO SERIOUS

11           VAMPIRO NZ

12           VULTAN TIN

 

1st Emergency      OUR JIMMY JOHNSTONE NZ  

2nd Emergency     BALCATHERINE NZ

+1 -1

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Comments

  • maybesomaybeso    60 posts
    How did Balcatherine get left out of the field, a week after winning a group one?

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    For the same reason that To Fast To Serious would not have been considered for the Fremantle Cup. Until last week he had not ventured into fast class, the criteria for feature race selection.

    Balcatherine won a race restricted to mares and the last mare to win a Pacing Cup was Pyramus in 1972.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,940 posts
    I personally would have had Our Jimmy Johnstone and or Balcatherine in ahead of Convert Denario.
    Now we all wait for this morning's barrier draw with bated breath and hope for gods sake there are no more stuff ups again like last week for the Mares Classic!
  • maybesomaybeso    60 posts

    For the same reason that To Fast To Serious would not have been considered for the Fremantle Cup. Until last week he had not ventured into fast class, the criteria for feature race selection.


    Balcatherine won a race restricted to mares and the last mare to win a Pacing Cup was Pyramus in 1972.
    The winner of the golden nugget got an automatic entry into the pacing cup in previous years. It too may never have raced in open company, but still got a berth on the back of a restricted class group one win. Balcatherine deserved a start by winning the mares classic last week, in my opinion.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    So you are completely ignoring the fact that mares have not been competitive in our premier race for the past 48 years.
  • freodockersfreodockers    774 posts
    Group 1 is only wording, it doesn’t guarantee the horses in the so called race are group 1 performers. Had any of the horses in last weeks race proven themselves as group 1 horses ???
    IMO definitely not, maybe GGG but is out of form.
    Agree on the nugget conditions but fact is same didn’t apply to mares race.
    I honestly can’t see how Balcarherine has performed any better than any of the twelve acceptors.
    Spare a thought for horses like Chiarscuro and many more who has raced well in open class but given conditions last few weeks failed to get in also. Don’t know if he was even nominated in the end.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,170 posts
    Our Alfie Romeo was granted a start last year having never raced in open FFA company. She won many restricted FFA's for Mares and Fillies, won feature mares races and ran 2nd in the Mares Classic. The loss of a job specific "handicapper" in the Harness Department at RWWA, to be replaced by a field selection panel, was in my opinion a poor decision. I think Snr has a case in arguing for Balcatherines inclusion, it gets down to opinions but it seems consistency in selection policy has not occurred in this instance.
  • maybesomaybeso    60 posts

    So you are completely ignoring the fact that mares have not been competitive in our premier race for the past 48 years.

    Sorry? Last year Our Alfie Romeo beat home half the field, beaten 5.9;metres. The year before Maczaffair ran third, beaten 2.7/metres. If both performances aren’t classed as competitive then you have got to be dreaming.

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,170 posts
    I think to say mares have been "non competitive in the past 48 years" needs some qualification. Yes, the days of Dainty's Daughter and Pyramus winning Pacing Cups are in general something we won't see again unless they are exceptional mares ....but....Wee Cent, Norms Daughter, Meggie Dear, Jodies Babe, Ima Spicey Lombo (twice), Lombo Rapida all placed....and in 2019 Mazaffair 3rd.
    And finally any horse running on Friday Night is a nice horse, as are just about all of those that missed out. But half a dozen of the acceptors, dependent on draw, have no chance and haven't been performing well in the FFA's. Balcatherine has a case for inclusion but we will never know.

    Rocket_Reign, Markovina, VillageKid likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    The other concern with Balcatherine was her 6th in the Norms Daughter behind Wainui Creek and Our Alfie Romeo. Hardly conducive to a WA Pacing Cup start.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,050 posts
    What would be the last pacing cup we have had 5 or more runners not being of---- N.Z. Origin.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,578 posts
    maybeso said:

    So you are completely ignoring the fact that mares have not been competitive in our premier race for the past 48 years.

    Sorry? Last year Our Alfie Romeo beat home half the field, beaten 5.9;metres. The year before Maczaffair ran third, beaten 2.7/metres. If both performances aren’t classed as competitive then you have got to be dreaming.
    Maczaffair  has been a very good horse no question 

    However when it won the Oaks - or won of those big 3 year old races - Shannon S was driving it i think - came from a mile back and demolished them - i thought at that point that horse was going to be a deadset  champion 

    That performance that night - was one of the most impressive performances by a mare or filly in the last 15 years Aust wide in my opinion - and i reckon even its connections that night thought they had a future super star 

    It has performed and raced well since- but it hasnt reached the height i thought it would
  • maybesomaybeso    60 posts

    The other concern with Balcatherine was her 6th in the Norms Daughter behind Wainui Creek and Our Alfie Romeo. Hardly conducive to a WA Pacing Cup start.

    I'd like to know your thoughts on how Covert Denario gets a start then. 8th in the Fremantle Cup, 7th in the Pat Cranley memorial, and 8th in the Howard Porter in its last 3 starts.
  • freodockersfreodockers    774 posts
    Many of the mares named above would have qualified under heat conditions, no longer in place.
    When you look at it from that point of view then yes Balcatherine may have qualified but so too many others.
    If a horse hasn’t raced in FFA company at all then I fail to see the comparison in form. It is a big rise as many horses have found out.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,940 posts
    edited December 2020
    FD from next year they should be bringing back heats for the Pacing Cup in my opinion, in and around Xmas/NY time with the WA Pacing Cup being run back in mid Jan and the Fremantle Cup back to a 2900m SS run after.
    Heats or Preludes just bring so much more intrigue, commentary, excitement and interest around the final field make up and lead up to WA's biggest trot race, who knows maybe even The West/ST might even report on it?!?! 
    The Nugget should also be run in early Jan if the seasons stay as is.

    Markovina, JayJay, savethegame, freodockers likes this post.

  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    93 posts
    Bringing the heats back is a great idea horses on the cusp might be a chance to get a start with a few good barrier draws,and for Christ sake put the Freo cup back to a stand start

    VillageKid, JayJay likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    181 posts
    maybeso said:

    The other concern with Balcatherine was her 6th in the Norms Daughter behind Wainui Creek and Our Alfie Romeo. Hardly conducive to a WA Pacing Cup start.

    I'd like to know your thoughts on how Covert Denario gets a start then. 8th in the Fremantle Cup, 7th in the Pat Cranley memorial, and 8th in the Howard Porter in its last 3 starts.
    Well you can look at it your way, or look at it like this, he's won 2 FFA out of his last 5 starts....so he's been there, and done that. 
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,578 posts

    FD from next year they should be bringing back heats for the Pacing Cup in my opinion, in and around Xmas/NY time with the WA Pacing Cup being run back in mid Jan and the Fremantle Cup back to a 2900m SS run after.

    Heats or Preludes just bring so much more intrigue, commentary, excitement and interest around the final field make up and lead up to WA's biggest trot race, who knows maybe even The West/ST might even report on it?!?! 
    The Nugget should also be run in early Jan if the seasons stay as is.
    I think bringing back heats is a very good idea  - created alot of excitement - and from memory only winners of heats and maybe the 2 quickest 2nds got in - so there was no giving it a quiet run - hitting the line for 4th - because you missed out

    FRK won 5 heats one year - when he had those ex SA horses like Rite

    The only problem with the heats as i currently see hit - is there enough depth of free for all horses in WA -numbers wise to have heats 
  • JayJayJayJay    6,170 posts
    edited December 2020
    "Restoring the Standing start Fremantle Cup carnival, reviving the Easter
    Handicap heats and final and the Pacing Cup Heats and Finals along side
    the Xmas Gift and the Xmas Handicap".

    I posted the above in February 2017.....and yes there are enough Free For Allers....I think (will stand corrected) that there were 34 noms for the Freo Cup......and if we had heats and finals that create interest atmosphere and a genuine test, at least some of the high class exports to North America such Our Corelli, Speedman,  Walkinshaw, Macczaffair, Amelias Courage, Ana Malak, Bechers Brook, Bill Haley, Fizzing, Herrick Roosevelt etc etc may still be racing here.

    For the life of me, I cant understand why we got rid of heats and finals in all of the above as well as the Golden Slipper, The Derby and the Nugget.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,578 posts
    Yes the VIC and NSW Derby and Oaks all have heats - i think 4 lots- and you have to perform 

    I can remember the NSW Oaks might have been this year or last - or one of those big heat/final races - and Ross Adams had i think Vicenza ( top class filly ) and just before the score up he said - look i dont really want to use her up early from the gate and knock her around - well guess what it ran an eyecatching 4th or 5th but didnt qualify 

    You have to perform in those heats - a bit of pressure - or you miss out

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    Historically driving to qualify in heats and not to win has been an integrity issue.
  • JayJayJayJay    6,170 posts
    I have heard that flannel being trotted out for decades, that's why we have stewards, video replays etc. Look, I thoroughly respect your vast experience, your views and thoughts on just about every issue but public interest in our sport is on life support....it has to be worth a try, otherwise we will become a cottage industry. I tell you what, if I thought for a millisecond one of mine was racing to "just qualify", there would be major repercussions. I am not so silly to think it hasn't happened but a screaming overall majority are out there busting their balls to win, of that I have zero doubt.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,940 posts

    Historically driving to qualify in heats and not to win has been an integrity issue.

    Then you wouldnt also qualify for the final as only heat winners get in with maybe an exemption for the Nugget winner and one other discretionary selection!
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    Winners only is fine but you would not get the numbers for that to happen.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    Hardly flannel JayJay when I could produce untold numbers over the years. Perhaps if you on the other side of the coin as a bookie you may have a better understanding of how often it happened.
  • freodockersfreodockers    774 posts
    It is no different nowadays with trainers with multiple runners in one race. Take last years Pacing Cup for example you can’t tell me they didn’t look after each other.
    However Chariots in the old days as a bookie I do get your point, nowadays you can only imagine what would have gone on.
  • freodockersfreodockers    774 posts
    Anyway CB is due for a good draw so we are probably discussing nothing.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,940 posts
    When is the WA Pacing Cup barrier draw being done and is it available to view?
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts





































    Barrier Draw just done:

    Jack Farthing
    Mighty Conquerer
    Vultan Tin
    Vampiro
    Ocean Ridge
    Braeview Bondi
    Chicago Bull
    Perfect Major
    Bletchley Park
    To Fast To Serious
    Galactic Star
    Convert Denario
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,152 posts
    image

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