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Tales and Thoughts of Yesteryear.

West Australian Racing
thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
West Australian Racing
i remember a wet winters day at belmont park (as it was then). a horse named nowa nowa won, ridden by george woods. dad and i were watching them come in. george looked like thunder, chucked the reins at the strapper and was cursing under his breath..i said something along the lines of "whats wrong with uncle george?" dad said it looked like its come up on them and george couldn't do anything about it.
i then learnt about hooking them, george was a master at it thats why he was so p*ssed off. don't forget there were no cctv cameras, grainy replays, stewards at a number of towers around the course armed only with binoculars.
a few of the lads were pros at giving them a run, jack ingram, bernie duggan and more than a few more...very hard to do today...then it was all part of the game and i reckon the stewards knew and only acted on a blatant case and a couple a year to keep face.
no bloody appeals in those days, been known that stewards give penalty as the jock is unsaddling..."finish your commitments for today mr. .......and you then have a .... week suspension. come to the office after the last race and we will explain our decision".
weak as water today..."sir i have an engagement for hairy legs in the epsom in 3 weeks, can i start then". "yeah OK" says a 2021 steward. earlier it would have been "what the f**k...pull the other one..no bloody way.."
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Topware, VillageKid, spinking, savethegame likes this post.

Comments

  • GLAMOURGLAMOUR    512 posts
    Seems to be the way these days,start your suspension when it suits you.i was reading today Steve Parnham,another op on his collorbone.
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  • FlandersFlanders    781 posts
    It sh!ts me too, that someone has been found to be in the wrong and gets suspended but they can keep booting horses round, sometimes working the system to appeal, delay, appeal, delay
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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    yeah its a crock of sh*t.....trouble is if the stewards deny the request the little buggers run to a lawyer..then as you say, delay, delay....probably puts it off until the depth of winter then p*ss off to the sun for a few weeks..with pockets full. don't forget even middle tier jocks these days are verging on, if not millionaires...
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  • JayJayJayJay    6,174 posts
    I could not agree more....I would make a lousy steward, day 1 at 9.00am, find the stupid deferment policy and chuck it as far away as possible, never to see the light of day.

    Offspring returns home 2 hours after generous curfew of 1 am, full of beer and bad manners, minus shoes. "you're grounded for a week, starts now". But Pa, could I defer that for a week, Maisie has got a huge party next Friday night and it would be so uncool if I can't go. Yeah right, Sunshine, you are dreaming and add another week for not accepting responsibility for your rotten decision making.

    Next thing we know, AFL players who get suspended (on the rare occasions this happens) will be saying "but Its a big game against the Tigers next week, can I start my time after that?". Answer: No!!!!
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  • JayJayJayJay    6,174 posts
    I would also like to see the disqualification flag......if you cross the markers through no fault of another driver, you are out. If you impede another runners chances you are out. Howard Hughes at Pinjarra last Monday....offended twice, once before the sprint lane and then clearly in the sprint lane. Driver was fined 2 x$200....the argument being it didn't gain an unfair advantage, probably wins anyway but the point being it went inside the markers. Why have the pegs? I couldn't understand that one.
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  • RodentRodent    5,826 posts
    JayJay said:

    I would also like to see the disqualification flag......if you cross the markers through no fault of another driver, you are out. If you impede another runners chances you are out. Howard Hughes at Pinjarra last Monday....offended twice, once before the sprint lane and then clearly in the sprint lane. Driver was fined 2 x$200....the argument being it didn't gain an unfair advantage, probably wins anyway but the point being it went inside the markers. Why have the pegs? I couldn't understand that one.

    So you lay one over the gap and then just cross the markers for a guaranteed collect at the expense of the poor punters. No thanks.
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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    JayJay said:

    I would also like to see the disqualification flag......if you cross the markers through no fault of another driver, you are out. If you impede another runners chances you are out. Howard Hughes at Pinjarra last Monday....offended twice, once before the sprint lane and then clearly in the sprint lane. Driver was fined 2 x$200....the argument being it didn't gain an unfair advantage, probably wins anyway but the point being it went inside the markers. Why have the pegs? I couldn't understand that one.

    Markers or pegs are actual replacements for a running rail so its actual gone through the running rail thats how stupid a interpretation .can be so wrong .Disqualified   lucky you didn't kill yourself..
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  • VoodooVoodoo    930 posts
    Not just a week falc ....you could get 6 months for giving one "a run".... even more if the powers to be were just waiting for you to make a blue....they were great days though....you were given instructions and had to carry them out...no if's or buts.

    thefalcon, spinking, savethegame, HotJules likes this post.

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  • spinkingspinking    2,980 posts
    Back in the day when Falcon is talking about above i  am sure the stewards gave the trainer the same amount of time off as the jockey got. If they thought one had been given a run
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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    ^^ exactly spinking. i wonder why they dropped that action? it is reasonable to assume the jock is riding to instructions.
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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,514 posts
    edited January 7
    JayJay said:

    I could not agree more....I would make a lousy steward, day 1 at 9.00am, find the stupid deferment policy and chuck it as far away as possible, never to see the light of day.

    Offspring returns home 2 hours after generous curfew of 1 am, full of beer and bad manners, minus shoes. "you're grounded for a week, starts now". But Pa, could I defer that for a week, Maisie has got a huge party next Friday night and it would be so uncool if I can't go. Yeah right, Sunshine, you are dreaming and add another week for not accepting responsibility for your rotten decision making.

    Next thing we know, AFL players who get suspended (on the rare occasions this happens) will be saying "but Its a big game against the Tigers next week, can I start my time after that?". Answer: No!!!!



    Your last paragraph is spot on. This is exactly what happens in racing. If this happened in the AFL they would burn it to the ground
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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    thefalcon said:

    ^^ exactly spinking. i wonder why they dropped that action? it is reasonable to assume the jock is riding to instructions.

    thefalcon said:

    Everything revolved around betting ,Trainers didn't trust jockeys,so dead-uns took place, with raceday gallops,etc-etc etc for a later date, unbeknown to the jock .Of cause alot combinations owner,jock, trainer,where very solid to each other,---Plus  there was very  smart jockeys who very quickly could deciphere a horses ability, Then they worked in there own circles unbeknown to the trainer & owner.

    thefalcon said:

    Plus the clockers operated on by,letting the trainers know something on for me to keep quite, plus stool pigeons,who would be getting something from  certain bookies tipping them such & such is flying. Stable staff would trade information with other stable staff from different stables comparing horses looking for whatever edge .So in a nutshell money was so hard to come by, any means was fair .Then was others who wouldn't have said anything under torture

    thefalcon said:

     Old timer punting trainers had to be so right when the day arrived as they didn't get many chances at being wrong..Would love to wind the clock back & have race-day interview..with.a old punting Trainer  he would ;probably say i didn't  no it was in.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    edited January 7
    The Falcon-- didn't  say Savethegame said.Have found a new way to bounce into the walls,& can't work out  how that took place plus,haven't had a pen & ink yet.

    thefalcon likes this post.

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  • spinkingspinking    2,980 posts
    Have heard stories about the old timers when setting one up would give it its track gallops in the dark . Therefore having the ever vigilant and very smart timer  and tipster Phillock not being able to do exactly that ( time it). Have heard people say Phillock was very hard to get one past. And his ability to identify horses and time them was something to behold

    savethegame, Tucool likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    Philock was very clever man actual read article where he won a massive jackpot at g.p. picking  x amount winners & lobbed the jackpot  was thousands of pounds?, legendary stories  regarding his photographic memory when came to horses

    Only ever was on recieving end of one of his tips. Can't think of its name 100% but was definitely trained by Paul Garner. thinking Crimson Medal or Platinum Medal first start in a race was its name about 1 million bets ago.

    Mate had done him a favour, Philock said don't tell anyone until the last ten minutes before start time,----sure it wasn't in his tips but it bolted in .

    spinking likes this post.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    no worries stg, i'm hanging out for a pen and ink at 5ish...could be a bigun, its my partner in Quick Jaggers 40th...and he's irish...enuff said... paddy is now the father to about 15 pups with another lot on the way. declan (the 40th lad) wants to call our next one Jagger Juice....

    yeah spinking, Phillock was a very astute trackman..i forget his real name, he was a pal of dads. its a wonder some trainers didn't put a contract out on him...:)
    those old boys knew more tricks than a performing seal. they were know to disguise a horse in trackwork..eg paint socks on their forelegs. BUT, you had to be good to get one past Phillock..

    spinking, savethegame, Manchild likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    His real name was kevin murphy & milky paidup for a couple trotters with his son.

    spinking likes this post.

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  • spinkingspinking    2,980 posts
    Phillocks name was Kevin Murphy . I know the Murphy bit is right . His son Craig trained and drove trotters 

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    spot on kevin murphy..good old irish name...

    hey, stg i hope the "milky" you referred to is not my very, very good (late) friend...
    >-)
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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    6,283 posts
    savethegame said:

    1 million bets ago.



    ;))
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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,057 posts
    Glad your not pulling me up,where i should be putting full stops& comma"s you would be busy. 

    Should wrote 1 millon bets ago ha.ha.---- you must be bored, go play with thunder.

    spinking likes this post.

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  • TopwareTopware    5 posts
    not onlydid you have to wait till philock went home to gallop one,both his brothers worked on the track and they would keep an eye out for any late gallops and report back to philock and they were not mugs

    savethegame, spinking likes this post.

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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    6,283 posts
    edited January 7
    savethegame said:

    Glad your not pulling me up,where i should be putting full stops& comma"s you would be busy. 


    Should wrote 1 millon bets ago ha.ha.---- you must be bored, go play with thunder.
    You have misunderstood Gamer. I thought your calculation of the number of your previous bets was a humorous. Since when was I the English teacher on this forum.   :-B

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • spinkingspinking    2,980 posts
    Neil Murphy was Phillocks brother who worked on the track . Top ware didn't know of the other one . Neil and his two sisters lived between Roly Ransom and Peter Mckays in Moreing street.Rodent will pull you up about your grammar mistakes STG

    SLIPPERGOLDEN, savethegame likes this post.

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  • TopwareTopware    5 posts
    Pat was the other brother,regarding an earlier comment when there was a disqualification the owner the trainer and jockey all went for a stretch also if a horse got the drifts the stewards would ring the starter to tell the jockey we are watching you.Does it happen now?

    spinking likes this post.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    good 5th post, topware..bet you have a few stories to tell.

    too right the stewards would do that quite often. those days there were about 40 bookies so you could read the drifts. these days with about 4-5 bookies, who all read off the tote, its hard to pinpoint.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,583 posts
    spinking said:

    Back in the day when Falcon is talking about above i  am sure the stewards gave the trainer the same amount of time off as the jockey got. If they thought one had been given a run

    Im not so sure about that 

    I can remember in the 80s - Ron Quinton who at the time was an 8 time Sydney Metropolitan premiership winning jockey - so you cant get much more higher profile than that 

    And John Schreck who was the AJC Chief Steward at the time - and he couldnt careless who you were - or how big a profile you had - and he gave Quinton 12 months disqualification for not allowing his mount at Randwick to run on its merits 

    It was a Les Bridge trained horse - and im almost certain that Quinton was the only one who was disqualified 

    Ican remember John Schreck being interviewed in that era ( and not referring to the Quinton case ) but he just said generally - that if you are a Pro Punter and they hook one - well im sorry ( we try our best ) but you are just going to have to cop it on the chin
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  • thefalconthefalcon    17,377 posts
    i was living (and working) in sydney at the time and can vaguely remember ron getting the 12 months, the papers were full of it.
    sheriff schreck...didn't he go to HK for a stint. i think i read he's coming back to perth in some capacity....pharqueing hell he'd be as old as me...ie Gods dog...:)
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  • FlandersFlanders    781 posts
    Topware said:

    Pat was the other brother,regarding an earlier comment when there was a disqualification the owner the trainer and jockey all went for a stretch also if a horse got the drifts the stewards would ring the starter to tell the jockey we are watching you.Does it happen now?



    Yes I remember that happening now that you mention it. Don't reckon it happens now though. It bloody should
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  • RodentRodent    5,826 posts
    Jim Cassidy on Cruising. He got 12 months for not letting it run on its merits.
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