G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

0 Members & 4 Non Members

Tales and Thoughts of Yesteryear.

West Australian Racing

Comments

  • spinkingspinking    2,930 posts
    Was at a Carbine club lunch in Singapore a couple years back and J.Schreck was guest speaker. He had some hillarious tales to tell. One i remember was about a apprentice riding at Randwick one day . The sheriff and his panel had brought before them a apprentice (dont think he mentioned a name) or i was to full to remember. But they thought the kid was a bit lazy on one .The sheriff said to him you didnt let it go at the 300 when you had plenty of space to. You  didnt let it go at the 200 when sufficently clear . And you still didnt let it go at the 100 mark . Schreck says when were you going to let it go. The kid replies the boss said in two weeks time at Rosehill
  • hashhash    7,063 posts
    So what are we liking for tomorrow’s card any best bets fellas? By the time the last is run and won half us would have been fed and on our way to bed

    Anyone agree with Scott Embry’s best bet in the last Mood Swings
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,002 posts
                            THOUGHT THIS ONE HAD EVERYTHING.
                 TEN YEARS FOR JOCKEY WITH BATTERY IN WHIP.
                I HAD A GO ON MY  OWN AND IT MISFIRED--- SAID ATTRILL.
            BUT BIG BETS WERE STILL WON ON THUNDERING LEGION 33/1- 3/1.

    Morphhettville-- Jockey William Attrill was found with a battery in his whip, 6 mins.prior to race,was given 10 years on the spot.

    Attrill was to have ridden Thundering Legion  who was backed 33/1 to start 7s in some places 3s.But punters still collected when des coleman,was subsituted for Attrill and won the race on Thundering Legion.
    Thundering Legion was regarded of having little chance until Mr. Jim.Jenkins of ballarat one of victorias biggest punters.made a bet 1000 pound to 50 pound with a leading rails bookmaker,

    Then the storm broke,punters rushed to back the brown gelding,odds fell from 33/1.Mr Jenkins a close friend of the owner,said later his only bets was 1.000 to 50 pound & 10 pound a place.

    Mr Jenkins said also he thought the favourite BIARA was a certainty in the race and had invested 800 pounds on the gelding with several different bookmakers.Biara started 7/4 finished 5th.
    Thundering Legion is owned by Mr Harry Irvine,an auctioneer& hotel broker from Ballart,and horse is trained by former jockey W.Conway.

    Mr. IRVINE went to the stewards before the race & stated he couldn't account for the huge public plunge on his horse. He said  he made bets of 100 to 12.pound.  80 to 10 pound .and also 5 pound a win& 2 pound a place.

    After Atrills  disqualification.Mr Irvine said I race purely for fun knew nothing whatever was going on.
                           
                                               SENSATIONAL EVENTS

    The sequence of sensational events after Mr Irvine had gone to the stewards was.

    The chairman of the S.A.J.C. Stewards Mr Fred Everest, a former Melb. racing Journalist, went to the jockeys room& searched Attrills gear six minutes before race time.He recieved a sharp shock from the hidden battery when he picked up the whip.Coleman then replaced Attrill.

    Perfectly ridden sneaked through on the rails to win in a photo finish. Stewards handed whip&saddle to racecourse detective, who locked them up in a course safe. The Stewards ordered a swab to be taken.

    They announced inquiry to be held next friday.

    Atrills most important win was in 1950 Goodwood Hcp. Attrill had served as innfantryman 2nd world war had carried his pack over the Kokoka Trail & for a part in Buna & Sanananda battles in New Guinea.

       L.Jenkins punter-bookmaker. Owne H.Irvine ---- Trainer W. Conway --were  charged with conspiracy & fraud.  Went to Trial .
     
     Court RESULTS PART 2. T/morrow.

      Ha Ha---- was noted STEWARD. MR Everest work brilliantly for next 6 meetings.

    spinking, Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • spinkingspinking    2,930 posts
    Aw come on Stop teasing us STG. There is homework to do tomorrow

    savethegame likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,002 posts
    spinking said:

    Aw come on Stop teasing us STG. There is homework to do tomorrow

    Been Slack on the form,myself i got to start a day earlier.Knew how long it took me,  >:D< Truck got R.S.I. IN THE ONE DIGIT
  • bookieloverbookielover    2,312 posts
    STG, I knew Jimmy Jenkins very well. Died about 5-6 years ago, and actually lived about 500 metres from me.

    He was the perfect example of a punter who never knew when it was time to stop. There was no last race for him. I have no doubt that he would have been in on the plonk up to his ears. He was the type of bloke, who would kill his parents so that he could go to the orphan's picnic.

    My dad told me, that it was a well known fact that Jimmy had around 50,000 pounds in the bank after a successful run in the early 50's, it would be impossible to quantify how much that would translate as today, and knocked the lot off.

    The last big bet I saw him have was with my old man at Flemington. in 1984, I think it was.  He backed Bonecrusher at 1/2 and had 6000 cash to 3000 on and it got up by a nose to beat At Talaq in the Australian Cup. That money lasted him from Xmas day to boxing day. He would eat a favourite for breakfast, so the fact that he backed the 33/1 chance, is all you need to know that he was in on it.

    His brother was Chris Jenkins who was a dentist and the smartest punter I have ever known.

    He gave away dentistry and punted professionally after that for almost 50 years. He was a tremendous form student, very selective with his bets, and never backed a horse at odds less than 7/2. A typical bet with my old man would be $2,000/280 a 7/1 chance. he might back it twice. My father rarely collected from him.

    He told me back in 1990 that since he had given away the dentistry 32 years earlier, he had never had a losing year, and I can tell you that he won plenty. He was an absolute gentleman and became a long term committee man of the VRC.


  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    6,212 posts
    You should write a book BL
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,278 posts
    he could but should he? slip, i've spent hours in BL's company and some of the stories had me in some sort of trance.
    i just hope this covid thing does not preclude he and his lovely wife from arriving on 4th feb. for a month.
    i'll be selling tickets to a night with BL....
  • bookieloverbookielover    2,312 posts

    You should write a book BL

    I need a few more people to depart this earth, before I do, Slip. :-$

    SLIPPERGOLDEN, Tucool, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • paraleticparaletic    3,699 posts
    BL, digging into your memory bank, who would you say would be the best trainer to pull of a plunge? Who would the bookies fear when they saw the money coming?
  • sonnysonny    755 posts
    I'm guessing Henry Davis ....
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,907 posts
    This is my favourite horse of all time
    Had everything.

    spinking, SLIPPERGOLDEN likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    755 posts
    Great horse and not a bad jockey.. Vain???. The King was my pick....

  • thefalconthefalcon    17,278 posts
    para, thats a very hard question, unlike today back in the old days you could get set for a motza as there were so many bookies. henry was a genius and so were another dozen or so trainers  in the days trainers were trainers..crusty buggers with a fag in the corner of their rarely opened gobs.
    today they are all dressed in zena suits and all talk but tell you pharque all.....those dudes could not pull of a plunge...the only thing they could pull off.....i'll leave to your imagination..:)
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,907 posts
    sonny said:

    Great horse and not a bad jockey.. Vain???. The King was my pick....


    Yes...Vain ....P Hyland. If you click on the pic it takes you to a 10 min youtube piece.
  • sonnysonny    755 posts
    Thank you.. Will do that.....Never saw him in the flesh but on all accounts a ball of muscle.....
  • hashhash    7,063 posts
    Albany Fitzpatrick sprint day what are we thinking lads can Resortman return to form

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • bookieloverbookielover    2,312 posts
    edited January 10
    paraletic said:

    BL, digging into your memory bank, who would you say would be the best trainer to pull of a plunge? Who would the bookies fear when they saw the money coming?

    I would say it was Arthur "Pop" Smerdon, Robert's father. He was deadly. Kevin Mitchell a great money rider rode a lot of the horses and they brought off many a plonk.

    My memory ain't what it used  to be, but I remember them bringing off a huge plonk on a horse called Yootha over the cup carnival at Flemington in the 60's. That was just one of many over a long period of time.

    Another great organiser of a plonk, was George Hanlon. And could he keep a secret. He wouldn't even tell himself when the plonk was on. The Black Night plonk to win the cup was one.

    I was at the call of the card in 1984 when Mark Read backed BL to win $840,000. One bet with bookie at the time, Mike Faulkner was $360,000/30,000. Try and back a horse to win that in one bet today. I think Faulkner laid him another $240,000/12,000 and $60,000/5000. That's $660,000 in total. I used to have the race book where I wrote down the bets, but lost it.

    My old man who was working on the rails didn't bet at the Call of the card, so only laid the horse on the Tuesday. He only took one bet, $10,000/1,000 and that was from Mike Faulkner backing it back. My dad won on the race. safe to say, Mike didn't. I would love to be able to say how Faulkner was able to bet to that extent, but again, because certain people are still living, won't risk getting sued.

    Mike, by the way, is to this day, one of the finest gentlemen on the face of this planet.

    Just on Mike, I saw him lay Gabe Farrah the owner of Campaign King and Better Loosen up among others, $200,000/50,000 Campaign King in a sprint race at Caulfield. The horse won.

    In a sad sequel to this, Gabe Farrah died broke. He had a massive heart attack  sitting at his desk in his hotel in Albury, The manor House. I have stayed there. Lovely hotel if ever you go to Albury. 

    Gabe was a lovely bloke and I used to enjoy our conversations. Not only did he die broke, but the word  was that he owed bookie Graham Sampieri around 2 million at the time. Gabe was a large man and it was no surprise when he went.

    What was surprising, and probably serves as a lesson to all, is that he was privy to all the info coming out of the Hayes stable. His horses were trained by Colin/David, and they had plenty of winners. 

    Not only that, but when Better Loosen Up won the Japan Cup, my mate who was at the Wespac Bank in Albury at the time of Gabes return with Gabe, told me that Gabe who had backed the horse on the Japanese tote, and then had the money converted to our currency, opened up a suitcase and poured the dosh onto the desk of the bank manager. My mate said, that he never knew that so much money existed in the world, let alone Australia.

    Very few stand the test of time, and this was a bloke who had great horses, won a stack of prize money, was in a top winning stable, backed his horses to win plenty, had a thriving business, owned a slew of properties in Albury, and went under.

    So what hope have any of us got.
    :-S
  • spinkingspinking    2,930 posts
    Henry Davis name come up in discussion at the pub yesterday. To be honest I didn't know who he was. Their was a old fella ex Victorian sitting with us who said he was a very astute trainer who pulled of plenty of big goes. I thought he also said he was Greg Halls father in law

    bookielover likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,536 posts
    It would be interesting what side of the ledger Barts brother finished up on re the punt - he was a Chartered Tax Accountant by profession - and a huge punter of the Cummings horses - he would have all Barts info etc

    Best racehorse trainer tipster of his own horses - was Brian Mayfield Smith - and by the length of the Randwick straight 

    When he came on the radio now and again on Sat mornings - you just wrote down exactly what he said - and backed them accordingly - didnt even look at the form guide 

    Some examples - Late Show a welter type horse - basically declared it - 12 to 1 - strolled in - another one was Going Concern at Rosehill - same result

    And his best tip ever - and in a big race - was the AJC Sires Produce Stakes - Bounding Away was the boom horse of the time - it had won the Golden Slipper - and was thus odds on for the Sires Produce 

    BMS - had 2 runners - a colt Cassidy was riding about 8 to 1 - wasnt confident at all because it was a bog track - typical Syd Easter - pisssing rain 

    However he also had a little filly in the race - and they asked about her - and his exacts words were -  " i think she will fill a hole " - meaning it will run a place - so i backed it for a place - well it certainly ran a place - it won by 4 lengths at 80-1 - and its name was Diamond Shower 

    S
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,278 posts
    geez i love these stories..... =D>
  • bookieloverbookielover    2,312 posts
    Davis, was Greg's father in law.

    He organised the Getting Closer plonk at Canterbury in  1982.

    Falcon should recall this.

    Getting Closer was a maiden galloper with plenty of ability. 

    It was owned by Mark Read. He wanted to run it in a race at Randwick on New Years day 1982, but it was balloted out, so he had to settle for Canterbury 8 days later. Malcolm Johnston was the jockey, but they knew that he was a talker so wouldn't let him ride track work.

    His track work rider was Michael Fraser who I had the pleasure of meeting 30 years ago. Michael is a lovely bloke. 

     Michael is a great form student. I haven't seen him for a long time, but he was, until about a year ago, part of the Saturday morning race preview on 2 KY Sydney.

    Anyway, Read didn't stuff around. He placed his blokes at tracks all around Australia, and brought 11 unknowns up to Sydney with him from Melbourne.

    After a 15 minute wait for betting to settle down, he gave the signal, and in they went.

    The best price bet was 200/1 by a bookie called Digger Lobb. Lobb  had served in WW2 hence the nickname Digger, and was originally a bookie in Brisbane. 

    Shari Read, who is Mark's wife and was  daughter of Jack Elliot racing journalist, went up to Lobb and had $20,000/ 100. And that started things off. 

    Ray Hopkins one of Australia's most successful punters, was bookmaking at the time as was Robbie Waterhouse and they all got hit hard.

    The estimate was $1 million  taken out of the rings around the Country. Mark said that he averaged 12/1. for their money, and he got enough to pay off his mortgage on a mansion he had bought, plus.

    The bookies said they had not seen a plunge like it in a long time.

    Getting Closer went on to win a Group 1 railway Stakes and a Doomben 10,000.

    Read also set up a horse to win in Canberra on Black opal stakes day thinking he'd get 33/1, but Dominic Bierne who was working at the meeting,opened it at 5/1, but they still backed it off the map into odds on and it bolted in.

    The Davis -Read partnership didn't last long. I don't know why although it's possible that their personalities clashed. Davis gave away training soon after. 

    I always found Mark to be a very pleasant fellow and he got on really well with my dad. Others have a totally different view of the bloke and  it's fair to say that he was pretty egotistical, most successful people are, and you might also say, ahead of his time.

    He had a mild stroke a few years ago when he was living in the Westin hotel in Melbourne. He's no longer there, and I haven't seen him in years.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,002 posts
                                     THUNDERING LEGION COURT CASE.

    On the actual day-- was mentioned the jockeys wife was questioned regarding her husband

    .Mrs Attrill an attractive young blonde cluctched one of their four children today and said ''I don't know anything'''.Asked whether she knew before the race her husband was carrying a battery--she replied  ''I never ask him question's about his business'''--Riding has been his livelihood since he was 14''



    Just short of 12 months later was the court case------Newspaper report front page.may 2 1956

                         THREE VICTORIAN RACING MEN ACQUITTED

                         THUNDERING LEGION CONSPIRACY CHARGES

    JURY OUT FOR SEVEN HOURS----MAJORITY VERDICT FOR CONWAY (trainer).

    Three victorian racing men were acquitted of charges of conspiracy and fraud with the horse Thundering Legion who won a race at Morphetville on may 21 last year.

    The men Lyall William Jenkins  39 a bookmaker of ballarat.Henry William Irvine 49 an estate agent  and former owner Thundering Legion also of ballarat.& Noel William Conway a trainer of Beaumaris--denied having conspired with the jockey Lindsay William Attrill for him to use a whip containing a electric battery on the horse during the race.

    They also denied charges that they had attempted to defraud  the S.A.J.C. bookmakers,the owners of other horses in the race,and all other people having a financial interest in its outcome.

    The jury which was out for seven hours acquitted Jenkins,& Irvine unanimously on all charges.and a majority acquitted  Conway on each of the three counts.

    Members of the jury returned twice to the court room before delivering their final outcome.



                                                          BIG STRAIN.

    With perspiration streaming down his face.Irvine said the trial and inquiries which had extended over almost a year had been a big strain.He said he was uncertain of his future as a owner and didn't want to discuss it at present.

    '' But  I've had South Australia I'll never be  back here again'''   -he added.

    Jenkins who throughout the trial had appeared imperturbable, said that he would be back in Adelaide for the next cup meeting as a bookmaker and punter.

    Asked what he would do in the future Conway said '''I guess  I'm finished with racing--how could it be anything else''.

    Just my take between the two articles wouldn't be that sure about the owners solidarity with the group ,but a  chance he may have been left out of every detail that was to take place on the day.   To be involved your  middle name had to be William.(4)

    B.L ---Jenkins still  had 800 pound on fav.---sure did love them.


    spinking, bookielover, VillageKid likes this post.

  • bookieloverbookielover    2,312 posts
    Markovina, I can tell you about Bart's brother Pat.

    He bet on the nod with my dad for years. he was a gentleman's gentleman.
    I remember him having $7,000/4000 on two horses in the same race with dad at Flemington. One ran last, the other, and I'll never forget it's name, Scholar, won by a pimple. Would have been a great result for my old man in 1967. He did hold $15,000 on the race and won $4,000 because the figures were so good and of the two, he thought the winner would beat the other 7/4 chance,so he stood the other one out the gate. He wins the lot if the second horse wins.

    The things you remember,. Not many bookies would hold $15,000 in a day let alone on one race, and translated to today's money, I reckon that would be like holding $100,000 if you base the money on the price of a house then and the same house now.

    Anyway, back to Pat. He was privy to the info from Bart's stable. Now the story as I heard it from dad was that one day, Pat knocked off the price of a horse owned by a major stable client of Bart's. The client threatened to take away his horses if it happened again.

    So Bart fed his brother the wrong info not only of that client's horses, but of others. Pat went stone motherless broke. Why did he keep backing the horses Bart tipped? Because he couldn't believe after everything they had gone through, that Bart would be giving him a bum steer.

    It was a far cry from the day when Storm Queen won the Golden Slipper in 1966 and Pat backed it for him and Bart with Big Bill Waterhouse to win $200,000.

    What Bart did, formulated my opinion of him. I never met him, but I did meet and got to know Pat, I am so pleased that I met Pat, and equally pleased that I never met Bart.



  • spinkingspinking    2,930 posts
    Your a day late STG. But all is forgiven with yesterday being Saturday. I like you Falcon love hearing all these stories

    savethegame likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,002 posts
    spinking said:

    Your a day late STG. But all is forgiven with yesterday being Saturday. I like you Falcon love hearing all these stories

    Spin King should have played  :)] Journo yesterday--copied one under the tits on the punt.

    spinking likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,093 posts
    Loving the stories BL.....Black Knight .....Peter Cook had never seen the horse never mind ridden it prior to the Cup. Officially the flucs were 50/1 into 11/1 but who knows who got the 50's. Robert Heffernan was supposed to ride but jumped off to ride Martian and the rest is history, a P.Cook masterclass. Unconfirmed rumour that Holmes A Court smiled post race but I wouldn't believe that for a second. The poker face of a corporate raider who could take control of a company or corporation without anyone knowing it. Who can forget his failed attempt to takeover BHP, ultimately his undoing. Australia's biggest corporate gambler. Didn't matter in the end, he ended up in the same place we all do......Boot Hill.

    bookielover, VillageKid, Manchild likes this post.

  • spinkingspinking    2,930 posts
    Your not Robinson Crusoe there STG
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,002 posts
    edited January 10
    Bookie Lover while we have you belting them outta the park-----Ever any mention by your dad of two horses names being Vital.---Palfresco 1935 caulfield cup winner alleged won a Hannans Hcp.. Kalgoorlie Cup under the name of Vital.
    Vital was scratched final day of carnival which was boulder cup left the area in a hurray. the order them days Hannans, Kalgoorlie Cup.-Last day was Boulder Cup  Jockey was A. Brown. trainer F.thomas. coattugger  by the name of Murray Shaw was handing out A handbill a few days before the round requesting 5 pound be sent to  a post office box,for informination regarding the sting. no trace was found of a murray shaw  this statewide plunge was planned to the minute. extracts from a book
     --but old fella born 1932 has told me he his dad was in the ledger on hannans hcp. day people were getting told to get on vital some of the punters went from ledger to main bookies to get.on.

    bookielover likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,536 posts
    Hey Bookie Lover - Bart must have been an interesting character - i did read his auto biography about 10 years ago - and it is a good read 

    However as for his personality/character - i think Ron McDonnel who was his stable foreman for about a decade summed him up best when he said - " If you thought you knew Bart - you never knew Bart "

    spinking, bookielover likes this post.

Sign In or Register to comment.