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WACHRA Submission and Question Time In The legislative Assembly (Rundle/Whitby)

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    Grading of Trainers & Drivers certainly hasn’t worked just another great initiative by RWWA and the stewards back then around 2010
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    The point being @Moonraker that there just aren't any juniors around never mind if they want to go to Keller, there simply aren't many on the books. There have been scratchings this season as no claiming driver available.

    Not sure Keller is "far flung" but understand price of fuel  argument etc but they do get $70 plus per drive plus Super as opposed to nothing in the past. Perhaps a societal thing as well with FIFO being one of the most significant influences, not necessarily all positive, on attitudinal change.

    But HWOE certainly had a major impact when introduced on opportunities for juniors and it took a lot of convincing before some concessions came back....but the damage was already done. They couldn't a "Rifici Junior Drivers" series heat these days, simply not enough drivers.


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  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    506 posts
    Ivorytrunkey86 said:

    Dan nye left to work fifo for money after not getting many oppurtunities.ash fairhurst had some terrible falls and was in a back brace almost in a wheelchair,and Ryan Hough was replaced in his stable by a better junior ????????

    Would have hardly said Ryan was replaced by a better Junior, he was replaced by the trainers snotty nosed son who had an FIGJAM attitude and spent more time doing cartwheels out of the gig then saluting the winners circle. bwahaha

    Ivorytrunkey86, Pinballwizard likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    200 posts
    When I moved from kal to metro I asked the question about extending my junior claim as I’d only driven in Kalgoorlie and a handful of drives in the metro area. 1 from 1 at pinni and 1 from 2 at busso but I digress. I was told that as I had a job and wasn’t a full time driver I was ineligible for a concession extension as I was only part time.I asked where was the part time license fee on the forms and as you could imagine I’m still waiting for a response 4 years down the track.

    LightningJake, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    200 posts
    2lifetime…..harsh but fair.
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    Apologies.....I missed a couple. Gary Hall Jnr, Hollie Abbott, Brett Warwick, Garry Sayers and Kyle Condiperero....plus probably others. Point being, there were large numbers back then which is absent today.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,732 posts
    Ive read the thread - i try to post fairly - there are 2 points i will make 

    (1) The ones who have said that turnover isnt important or isnt the No 1 thing - they are kidding themselves - and talking utter rubbish 

    Turnover is King - i can remember John Anderson ex Melb Football Club  CEO - and then CEO at Vic Harness for about a decade - saying  exactly the same thing - that Turover is the key and that funds everything - and anyone with any mathematical/finance/business background would agree with that 

    (2) The 24 million re GP - they should immediately can that - its like spending that money on the WACA  cricket ground - just a waste of time spending it on another White Elephant . Do what Qld are doing re the Gold  Coast facilty - and Pinjarra would be the obvious track to do it here . Spend some decent money on Bunbury - and if it is corrected/fixed/improved you could have a very good track and racing their 

    Im not for flicking the small clubs - so let them keep what they currently have - but the important ones are Pinjarra - Bunbury - and Northam - just like in Vic- the big 3 are Ballarat Shepparton and Bendigo - plus they have got Melton . So in Vic they havent flicked the small ones - but their key drivers of their product are their Metro track plus 3 big Regional /Country tracks

    LightningJake, savethegame likes this post.

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  • getthechangegetthechange    299 posts
    watering the roots of the industry is far more effective than watering the leaves. in most cases I agree with Rocket but like abby I think rationalising to reallocate racing in favour of the stronger stables will result in less participants
    the argument that it will save money in fuel etc is faulty as most trainers choose to race at the outer meetings when if they wanted and if they could attend (able to get off work0then they could get a start midweek.
    Hayden Reeves who I think trains in Coolup took 14 horses to Kellerberrin Sunday but I dont think he had a starter at Bunbury wednesday - yes it would be less cost to go to Bunbury but the bottom line wouldnt be so good. Peter Anderson is another who takes them where they will be most competetive  just like Rocket did when taking horses to Kal
    just because trainers dont have the best horses doesnt mean they dont have a considerable part to play and a footprint that needs to be maintained as some of them have considerable numbers of horses which the industry needs to make up fields
    Last Sunday at kellerberrin 10 trainers from Bakers Hill (1)Meckering (2) York(5) Northam 10 (L Inwood 9) Kellerberrin 9(D Goulden 6) Merredin (3) Ravensthorpe(2) had 32 starters so it is hardly a dieing area so lets not kill it off
    Many years ago one of the characters of the industry in George James reportedly said to the course detective Charlie Skeehan when he was marching a couple of people booing "You should be on the outside throwing them in not on the inside throwing them out"
    I have had a truck licence for 45 years and despite having not driven one I am still licenced 
    and yet as warren mentioned we downgrade licences just because they havent driven 25 times in a year causing unnecessary angst - I think Murray Lindau has been downgraded along with Brad Stampalia who I believe is thinking of walking as did Aaron Skelecki some years ago along with many others - Charlie should have listened to  George James









     

    JayJay, Yilgarna, LightningJake, warrenrobinson, jum, savethegame, Arapaho likes this post.

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  • LightningJakeLightningJake    10 posts
    With regard to downgrading driving licences, I was informed yesterday by the stewards that I can no longer keep my C class driver's licence because I only had 2 trial drives in the last year and I need to do a minimum of 10 a year.

    I am a hobby trainer that lives/ trains in Wagin, with only a couple in work. How am I supposed to do 10 trial drives a year? If I drop my horse out of racing 10 times so I can trial him, I then lose 10 opportunities to earn with him. I have no desire to be anything other than a C class driver, just as a backup driver in local trials if needed. I have held my C class licence for over 10 years.

    I wrote a covering letter to accompany my licence renewal, asking for special dispensation because there are hardly any drivers around Wagin anymore. If we ever needed to hold trials we wouldn't have enough drivers. But my plea fell on deaf ears.

    Another nail in the coffin of country harness racing ????

    warrenrobinson, JayJay, jum, savethegame, getthechange, Arapaho, Gilgamesh, Betonme likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    I totally understand that top horses, top trainers & Top drivers turnover more dollars but unfortunately they don’t make up for the loss of downgraded participants in our industry. This is discrimination and may I suggest you look at legal action.

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    522 posts
    Markovina said:

    Ive read the thread - i try to post fairly - there are 2 points i will make 


    (1) The ones who have said that turnover isnt important or isnt the No 1 thing - they are kidding themselves - and talking utter rubbish 

    Turnover is King - i can remember John Anderson ex Melb Football Club  CEO - and then CEO at Vic Harness for about a decade - saying  exactly the same thing - that Turover is the key and that funds everything - and anyone with any mathematical/finance/business background would agree with that 

    (2) The 24 million re GP - they should immediately can that - its like spending that money on the WACA  cricket ground - just a waste of time spending it on another White Elephant . Do what Qld are doing re the Gold  Coast facilty - and Pinjarra would be the obvious track to do it here . Spend some decent money on Bunbury - and if it is corrected/fixed/improved you could have a very good track and racing their 

    Im not for flicking the small clubs - so let them keep what they currently have - but the important ones are Pinjarra - Bunbury - and Northam - just like in Vic- the big 3 are Ballarat Shepparton and Bendigo - plus they have got Melton . So in Vic they havent flicked the small ones - but their key drivers of their product are their Metro track plus 3 big Regional /Country tracks
    And didnt John Anderson do a great deal for harness, he did a great deal of harm , when he was sacked he didnt even get a presentation, nothing                                                                                                                                                         And do you know what % he negotionated with the TAB about fixed odds? The worse one out of all the states and it was LOCKED IN for 20 years ( about to finish or has just finished),  I remember he did a radio interview on RSN and he said its not that important as nobody bets fixed odds.( hard to believe but true).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Im not saying turnover isnt important, but there is alot parts to the jigsaw that need attention to. 

    warrenrobinson, JayJay likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    Rationalisation gone completely crazy in down grading licences with the resultant affect of nobbling trials at country clubs. The alternative is a trip to Byford on a Sunday.

    How would people react if government said:

    "Well you have your vehicle drivers licence but unless you do "x" number of kilometers each year, we will take it off you".

    RWWA needs a parliamentary inquiry into it's actions very urgently.

    LightningJake likes this post.

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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    522 posts
    And the other issue with turnover is the ones that want to bet on harness ( for a decent amount) are heavily restricted or cant get a fixed bet on at all, then the corporate winds the price in.

    There are minimum bet levels that come into play on the day of the race but surely this isnt helping turnover. 

    I see they were talking about this issue in Parliment a few months ago but nothing changed.
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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    Morning, I attended a HRCG meeting 21/4/2021 in general business I bought it to the attention of RWWA that in 2016 harness had 25 novice drivers in 2021 we have 11 they had no idea. RWWA had just employed a new training officer and they would look into the issue. Not sure of the current number but I can assure RWWA have done nothing.

    JimmyPop likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    Currently WA have 10 Concession Drives.
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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,716 posts
    Harness racing has been in freefall since late eighties IMO --- No doubt it was the fastest growing show late 50s ---60s even to the point A.J.C & race clubs around Australia were very concerned with its development This night time sport winning over our spectators. But we have arrived at 2023. Never in my wildest dreams thought selling G.P was a option. Utter disgrace the person
    that has put this proposal forward with the division of a chop mindset will take the meaty bit leave the useless fat bit to the industry .Alright i was wrong it needs to be sold but the whole lot .Not my idea but it was mentioned to me ideal for new Hospital and turn R.P.H. into housing?
    Paragraph written in 1976 by Ear Nose &
    Throat Specialist Harness Trainer Driver in N S .W Lou Levi.

    Called The Inner Circle.
    The hierarchy of racing clubs are as human and fallible as any other group of officials and are unfortunately often influenced by financial and political interests.Stewards are in general a sincere group .Their jobs nevertheless depend on them adjudicating according to club policy and lobbying is not the perogative of polliticans
    .Also personal bias is unavoidable. IF the confidence of racegoers is to be gained and maintained officials must act impartially;; inquiries and appeals should be open to the press. THE Paronyn RED HOTS to mean Trots has unfortunately survived too long. Whats the real story with G.P.?

    Gilgamesh, JimmyPop likes this post.

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  • YilgarnaYilgarna    32 posts
    On the general topic of threat of rationalisation,  and why many of us see the complete folly of this, check out Wagin Trotting Club's FB post for their next meeting on 1 September. What a brilliant, progressive fun-filled (country) club. So, so much to offer the community and our industry. $500 each to best dressed 60s themed lady and gent just tops it off. They put a certain metro club to utter shame. 

    cisco, LightningJake likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    It’s not the country clubs failing, why should they be sacrificed due to poor decision making starting with the WATA followed by RWWA. The propaganda fed to our industry ( and believed by some naive participants) is off the charts. The actual figures don’t lie but not shared. Gloucester Park due to poor management has been allowed to deteriorate to a condition which is unacceptable. In any business the Committee & CEO’s position is untenable and action is needed. I’m a firm believer that Gloucester Park has a future.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,732 posts
    As ive posted quite a few times - WA Harness need their own CEO - Donald Harper and BOTRA should be demanding that 

    This RWWA model where you have different industries in Racing Pacing and Chasing being goverened by a group ( non specific ) Aministrators - is beyond stupid - they might be good administrators - but they are not industry specific

    It would be like WA Aust Rules - Rugby both Union and League and Basketball all governed /controlled by the same group of Central  Administrators - pure stupidity

    And RWWA need their head red - re the 24 mill - contrast that to QLD re the new Gold Coast facility - they keep saying - we have to get this right - they understand the importance of it re the future of their industry - they dont want to blow/waste a tremendous opportunity and also alot of industry money 

    Contrast that to RWWA - look fellas heres 24 mill for your theme park - you couldnt make this stuff up - but it could put the industry right on the bones of their aarse- the opportunity cost is immeasurable 

    LightningJake, JimmyPop likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    A question for RWWA what is the return on investment of the 24 million you have invested in Gloucester Park?
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    763 posts
    You blokes waffling on is the equivalent of me telling the AFL how to run their business. I’m terrible at football but I participate
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    A bit kryptic for me but are you suggesting that the Harness Industry is being run well when on every possible indicator available, the **** has fallen out of the Industry? Name one trending statistic that is heading in a positive direction.

    LightningJake, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    Opinions are worthless without facts
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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    522 posts
    Heres a question?

    Can anyone see an increase in any of the following over the next 12 months?

    Turnover? 
    Prizemoney? Yes it is going up 1.4 million but that includes breeding bonuses
    Westbred bonuses?
    Owners?
    Licence renewals?
    Memberships?
    Crowds?
    Field sizes?
    Going horses brought from NZ?
    Media Coverage?
    Amount of meetings?
    Foals bred?
    Junior Drivers?

    Im sure their is alot more that could be added. 
    If all of these are going up future is pretty bright. 
    Of the 1.4 million is it the correct % allocated to harness?
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    Careful, you will be accused of "waffling on" by spreading facts Abby. We can't have reality intruding on the fact that Harness generates 48 cents return for every dollar it receives.

    LightningJake likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,467 posts
    One indicator that is rising is membership of WACHRA  affiliated  country clubs. Fact.

    LightningJake, jum, warrenrobinson likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    History tells us apart from stakemoney increase the answer is no.
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    763 posts
    JayJay said:

    Careful, you will be accused of "waffling on" by spreading facts Abby. We can't have reality intruding on the fact that Harness generates 48 cents return for every dollar it receives.




    Lucky for Gp that it’s 48c if we relied on the country tracks only it would be a lot less.

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

    LightningJake dislikes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    That’s not correct, the fact is GP is less than 48c due to higher stakes and higher CODB. Fact not opinion.

    LightningJake likes this post.

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  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    30 posts
    Financial year ending 2022 GP received 4.5 million in funding fact.

    LightningJake likes this post.

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