Retravision 4yo Golden NuggetHarness & Greyhounds

Chariotsonfire

Chariotsonfire

Usual discussion about field selection and those that missed out.

freodockers

Terrific race all bar one horse I reckon should be in there.
Only four NZ horses, interesting.

Chariotsonfire

Which one Dockers? I will not take you to task.

freodockers

Who’s The Dad thought Lewis horse hard done by.

Chariotsonfire

freodockers said:

freodockers said:

Who’s The Dad thought Lewis horse hard done by.

Particularly now it has drawn 9.

freodockers

I would give every horse in that field a chance of winning bar the 9 despite barrier draws.
Just my opinion.

JayJay

I don't think it is stretching it too far to say Wonderful To Fly is the best performed horse in the field, perhaps even the best horse full stop.....but the odds are stacked against her. Only 2 mares have won the Nugget in the history of the race. 

Liberty Belle Midfrew and the less high profile Countess Kala. Some really high profile champs have won this race.....Westburn Grant, Sinbad Bay, Yarracoola, Morano Magic, Ultimate Machete, Shockwave, Soho Tribeca, I'm Victorious, Lombo Pocket watch, Saab, Our Maestro ....plus many many other quality horses. Maybe not up to the highest standard of previous years but a very even race I think.

Some that got a start are probably lucky, a few that missed out unlucky. Solution is a no brainer...run heats. The first edition had 8 heats, winners only to the final. Was a brilliant concept. And in reality, prior to the change, these are ostensibly 5 year olds, so heats a week apart are not going to hurt them.

Chariotsonfire

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

Arapaho

Golden nugget field is almost exact same field as 4yo classic a fortnight ago and even has same first emergency only execption is Rubins Plight in and Street hawk out

You would of thought a couple who finished down the track in that may have been vulnerable;

Rocket_Reign

JayJay said:

I don't think it is stretching it too far to say Wonderful To Fly is the best performed horse in the field, perhaps even the best horse full stop.....but the odds are stacked against her. Only 2 mares have won the Nugget in the history of the race. 

Liberty Belle Midfrew and the less high profile Countess Kala. Some really high profile champs have won this race.....Westburn Grant, Sinbad Bay, Yarracoola, Morano Magic, Ultimate Machete, Shockwave, Soho Tribeca, I'm Victorious, Lombo Pocket watch, Saab, Our Maestro ....plus many many other quality horses. Maybe not up to the highest standard of previous years but a very even race I think.

Some that got a start are probably lucky, a few that missed out unlucky. Solution is a no brainer...run heats. The first edition had 8 heats, winners only to the final. Was a brilliant concept. And in reality, prior to the change, these are ostensibly 5 year olds, so heats a week apart are not going to hurt them.

I thought Noel and Ben Keiley won it with a mare, can’t recall its name may also of been a different group 1

Arapaho

Arma Xpress won a Golden Slipper;plus another 3 or 4 2yo classics for the Keiley's

PackedMetalPanda

Countess Kala was trained by Noel Keiley. It won in 1999

JayJay

Rocket_Reign said:

I thought Noel and Ben Keiley won it with a mare, can’t recall its name may also of been a different group 1

Yep, that was Countess Kala, Lindsay Harper drove for Noel Keiley.

JayJay

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

Pandora's Box is already open with the non-descript, ill defined processes in place that raise more questions than they answer. It is based on finding a completely objective person (or small group) to come up with a completely objective opinion whilst not being influenced in any way by the pressure applied (understandable pressure I might add) from owners and trainers pleading their case for inclusion because "my horses 2nd at Pinjarra was more meritorious than the other horses third in town". 

What we have at the moment simply doesn't stand up because it is based on subjective opinion.

Heats have worked very well for decades and decades, are currently in use in the Interdominion and other important classics, they generate interest and media coverage and if there are cases of horses being driven to qualify, then that is a stewarding issue, not a selection process issue. Having "proper stakes" for the heats, not the heavily reduced model that was utilised some time back, also removes the temptation to "drive to qualify".

The old chestnut from the self entitled Geckos that "I spent the equivalent of a small nations GDP buying my contender and he experienced bad luck in his heat and didn't make the final, I (stomping of feet) deserve to have my horse in the final, I am off to the gallops" (tantrum concluded) doesn't wash with me"

"I trod on a double gee watering my lawn this morning, so I am ripping up the lawn and putting down green concrete." It's racing, it has a chance factor involved, whether it is a maiden at Kellerberrin or an Interdominion Final, that is the game we play, it is the story of life.

I think the benefits of heat racing far outweigh having the current non system and any questions of integrity belong in the stewards room. 

VillageKid

Goodfellaz & Ardens Horizon are a bit stiff to miss out in my opinion.

VillageKid

GP

Race 1-   Sister Cherie,  Between Two Thorns,  Zephyra,  Unlucky

Race 2-   Arma Xfactor,  Ardens Horizon,  Paul Edward,  Brickies Dream

Race 3-   Tiger Royal,  Cordero,  Hillview Bondi,  Mr Fantastic

Race 4-   Blitzembye,  Lavra Joe,  Arma Einstein,  Wildwest

Race 5-   Wonderful To Fly,  My Ultimate Ronnie,  Alcopony,  Hoppys Way

Race 6-   Mighthavtime,  Im Themightylucy,  My Ultimate Baxter,  Bee Jays Boy

Race 7-   Eldaytona,  Carana,  Navy Street,  Otis

Race 8-   Rumour Has It,  Sovrana,  Stormyskyes,  Three Rumours

Race 9-   Water Lou,  Ambitsiya,  Ubeen Thundastruck,  Kurious Boy

Albany

R1- Pushbutton Rock

R2- Your Grace

R3- American Monarch

R4- Chica Valiente

R5- Brodie Boy

R6- Jackpot Joe

R7- Sports Central

R8- Lizzie Thorpe

AbbysAce

VillageKid said:

Goodfellaz & Ardens Horizon are a bit stiff to miss out in my opinion.

Maybe that is why Goodfellaz is in the free for all.

Soho Dow Jones ran last in the FFA last week and got in, a horse who hasnt won in 9 starts.

Markovina

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

I liked that system to - because it put real pressure on the Participants to win that heat - it put a real sharp edge on every heat 

Correct me if im wrong because i dont cheat by looking up the internet or record books , i go purely from memory

But i would nearly put my house on the fact that when Keval won a heat in a real upset at a big price for Trevor Warwick to qualify for the WA Pacing Cup  that the system was winners only , or maybe something about the 2nd placegetters , the fastest 2nd might have snuck in as well 

But back then to win a heat of the Pacing Cup and qualify for the final was viewed as quite an achievement 

Offthebit

Markovina said:

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

I liked that system to - because it put real pressure on the Participants to win that heat - it put a real sharp edge on every heat 

Correct me if im wrong because i dont cheat by looking up the internet or record books , i go purely from memory

But i would nearly put my house on the fact that when Keval won a heat in a real upset at a big price for Trevor Warwick to qualify for the WA Pacing Cup  that the system was winners only , or maybe something about the 2nd placegetters , the fastest 2nd might have snuck in as well 

But back then to win a heat of the Pacing Cup and qualify for the final was viewed as quite an achievement 

How is it cheating if you look up facts on the internet or record books?
Isn’t that just called doing your homework before you state a fact?

Markovina

Offthebit said:

Markovina said:

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

I liked that system to - because it put real pressure on the Participants to win that heat - it put a real sharp edge on every heat 

Correct me if im wrong because i dont cheat by looking up the internet or record books , i go purely from memory

But i would nearly put my house on the fact that when Keval won a heat in a real upset at a big price for Trevor Warwick to qualify for the WA Pacing Cup  that the system was winners only , or maybe something about the 2nd placegetters , the fastest 2nd might have snuck in as well 

But back then to win a heat of the Pacing Cup and qualify for the final was viewed as quite an achievement 

How is it cheating if you look up facts on the internet or record books?
Isn’t that just called doing your homework before you state a fact?

Totally off topic but it is cheating and a waste of time and anyone can look an instant expert and allways be  correct

Chariots a while back had a quiz , a picture from the late 70s at HP in Sydney re Aust  Young Drivers series , and to put a name to the various participants in the photo 

Someone correctly identified Chris Lewis even with his long punk hair at the time , so that gave me a clue , the bloke standing next to him must be representing SA ,  because thats where Chris was at the same time . So i had a good look at him , now knowing he is South Australian and i thought that looks like a young Geoffrey Webster , age bracket fitted , so i nominated him and i was correct , a thought process went into my selection 

Contrast that to someone else who amazingly , incredibly came up correctly with 2 absolute nobodys in John Rogers and Garthy Hoy from counrty Vic and NSW , I dont think for 1 second that person used their brain /memory or selection process to get them , you could have had a 1000 picks to the cows come home and you wouldnt have got either 

Not fond of nitpickers who go to the internet or where ever and love pointing out another persons errors , and they might even use the words " i believe " to not make it obvious they have looked it up on the internet FIRST 

cisco

Marko - I think you need a spell mate!!! I used to enjoy reading the differing opinions on here but this has become a joke!!!

Markovina

cisco said:

Marko - I think you need a spell mate!!! I used to enjoy reading the differing opinions on here but this has become a joke!!!

John Rogers and Garth Hoy that is the utter Joke 

But you like a few others wont call that nonsense out 

freodockers

Only one bet tonight
Tricky Miki in the nugget great ew odds was run of the race when Youngies horse won.
Reckon will give it a big shake tonight,

Frog

$750 fine, were is the 4 weeks for the first turn and more for a group race. If I was Aiden I would be fumming at the double standards at the park its just a joke.............

AbbysAce

Frog said:

$750 fine, were is the 4 weeks for the first turn and more for a group race. If I was Aiden I would be fumming at the double standards at the park its just a joke.............

The $114.840 prizemoney should cover that ...........

Gilgamesh

No tweets about the need for relegation this week??

Markovina

Brief summary of main race 

No great shakes as a field but thats how it is 

Pity there isnt a firm/company called Skittle something , because they would be great sponsors of that 1st turn at GP 

I thought the mare who was driven a treat - driven cold nice soft run , i thought it was slightly dissappointing in the home straight , i allways go by the sectionals 60.3 then 29.1 and 28.6 -- it did get beaten 11.5 metres , given the run/drive i thought it should have finished closer to the winner 

They inquired Halls driving tactics , well there is no consistency a 7th and 9th at GP , the run before that was the key run , drew gate 1 at Pinjarra and at $1.70 led and handed up to Lucca at 50-1 who had done a power of work 1st 600 , but Hall let it amble to the lead , that says to me in the grand scheme of things his horse is no world beater , yet he insisted on driving  it tough and ran 2nd last , instead of taking the sit on the well performrd Sydney horse

freodockers

Re Hall getting questioned and deservedly so.
I see They are now submitting blood tests for horses to justify bad drives and prevent suspensions re C Brown.
Can’t remember who won the race, will have to check.
You reap what you sow.

Chopchop43

Markovina said:

Offthebit said:

Markovina said:

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

I liked that system to - because it put real pressure on the Participants to win that heat - it put a real sharp edge on every heat 

Correct me if im wrong because i dont cheat by looking up the internet or record books , i go purely from memory

But i would nearly put my house on the fact that when Keval won a heat in a real upset at a big price for Trevor Warwick to qualify for the WA Pacing Cup  that the system was winners only , or maybe something about the 2nd placegetters , the fastest 2nd might have snuck in as well 

But back then to win a heat of the Pacing Cup and qualify for the final was viewed as quite an achievement 

How is it cheating if you look up facts on the internet or record books?
Isn’t that just called doing your homework before you state a fact?

Totally off topic but it is cheating and a waste of time and anyone can look an instant expert and allways be  correct

Chariots a while back had a quiz , a picture from the late 70s at HP in Sydney re Aust  Young Drivers series , and to put a name to the various participants in the photo 

Someone correctly identified Chris Lewis even with his long punk hair at the time , so that gave me a clue , the bloke standing next to him must be representing SA ,  because thats where Chris was at the same time . So i had a good look at him , now knowing he is South Australian and i thought that looks like a young Geoffrey Webster , age bracket fitted , so i nominated him and i was correct , a thought process went into my selection 

Contrast that to someone else who amazingly , incredibly came up correctly with 2 absolute nobodys in John Rogers and Garthy Hoy from counrty Vic and NSW , I dont think for 1 second that person used their brain /memory or selection process to get them , you could have had a 1000 picks to the cows come home and you wouldnt have got either 

Not fond of nitpickers who go to the internet or where ever and love pointing out another persons errors , and they might even use the words " i believe " to not make it obvious they have looked it up on the internet FIRST 

Markovina said:

Brief summary of main race 

No great shakes as a field but thats how it is 

Pity there isnt a firm/company called Skittle something , because they would be great sponsors of that 1st turn at GP 

I thought the mare who was driven a treat - driven cold nice soft run , i thought it was slightly dissappointing in the home straight , i allways go by the sectionals 60.3 then 29.1 and 28.6 -- it did get beaten 11.5 metres , given the run/drive i thought it should have finished closer to the winner 

They inquired Halls driving tactics , well there is no consistency a 7th and 9th at GP , the run before that was the key run , drew gate 1 at Pinjarra and at $1.70 led and handed up to Lucca at 50-1 who had done a power of work 1st 600 , but Hall let it amble to the lead , that says to me in the grand scheme of things his horse is no world beater , yet he insisted on driving  it tough and ran 2nd last , instead of taking the sit on the well performrd Sydney horse

might not be a world beater but maybe the sprint lane at pinni might of had something to do with the tactics there

freodockers

Chopchop43 said:

Markovina said:

Offthebit said:

Markovina said:

Chariotsonfire said:

I don't mind winner only heats but as I have stated before anything like 1st to 3rd to qualify lends itself to horses being driven to qualify rather than win and opens up a pandoras box.

I liked that system to - because it put real pressure on the Participants to win that heat - it put a real sharp edge on every heat 

Correct me if im wrong because i dont cheat by looking up the internet or record books , i go purely from memory

But i would nearly put my house on the fact that when Keval won a heat in a real upset at a big price for Trevor Warwick to qualify for the WA Pacing Cup  that the system was winners only , or maybe something about the 2nd placegetters , the fastest 2nd might have snuck in as well 

But back then to win a heat of the Pacing Cup and qualify for the final was viewed as quite an achievement 

How is it cheating if you look up facts on the internet or record books?
Isn’t that just called doing your homework before you state a fact?

Totally off topic but it is cheating and a waste of time and anyone can look an instant expert and allways be  correct

Chariots a while back had a quiz , a picture from the late 70s at HP in Sydney re Aust  Young Drivers series , and to put a name to the various participants in the photo 

Someone correctly identified Chris Lewis even with his long punk hair at the time , so that gave me a clue , the bloke standing next to him must be representing SA ,  because thats where Chris was at the same time . So i had a good look at him , now knowing he is South Australian and i thought that looks like a young Geoffrey Webster , age bracket fitted , so i nominated him and i was correct , a thought process went into my selection 

Contrast that to someone else who amazingly , incredibly came up correctly with 2 absolute nobodys in John Rogers and Garthy Hoy from counrty Vic and NSW , I dont think for 1 second that person used their brain /memory or selection process to get them , you could have had a 1000 picks to the cows come home and you wouldnt have got either 

Not fond of nitpickers who go to the internet or where ever and love pointing out another persons errors , and they might even use the words " i believe " to not make it obvious they have looked it up on the internet FIRST 

Markovina said:

Brief summary of main race 

No great shakes as a field but thats how it is 

Pity there isnt a firm/company called Skittle something , because they would be great sponsors of that 1st turn at GP 

I thought the mare who was driven a treat - driven cold nice soft run , i thought it was slightly dissappointing in the home straight , i allways go by the sectionals 60.3 then 29.1 and 28.6 -- it did get beaten 11.5 metres , given the run/drive i thought it should have finished closer to the winner 

They inquired Halls driving tactics , well there is no consistency a 7th and 9th at GP , the run before that was the key run , drew gate 1 at Pinjarra and at $1.70 led and handed up to Lucca at 50-1 who had done a power of work 1st 600 , but Hall let it amble to the lead , that says to me in the grand scheme of things his horse is no world beater , yet he insisted on driving  it tough and ran 2nd last , instead of taking the sit on the well performrd Sydney horse

might not be a world beater but maybe the sprint lane at pinni might of had something to do with the tactics there

Ahh you gotta laugh