Busso 23/24Harness & Greyhounds

freodockers

Jonimac Place 10s fixed
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Gilgamesh

So watching the first few races perhaps to improve GP we dont need a bigger track we need a smaller one!

JayJay

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

freodockers

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

Great to see JayJay and a terrific result for the club.

Chariotsonfire

Further justification to my stance through RWWA when the Shire wanted to build a new 800m track and facility outside of town and reclaim Churchill Park. The new track would have become a ghost town.

JayJay

Absolutely correct Ross, the walk up punters from the adjacent caravan parks and the central location are simply unique and irreplaceable. Holiday makers, locals, ex AFL stars over from Victoria, the rich and famous, hall of famers, the needy and greedy....they were all there last night. Some trainers who hadn't been there for decades were astonished at the turn out and atmosphere. It was clearly the correct call.

Markovina

Gilgamesh said:

So watching the first few races perhaps to improve GP we dont need a bigger track we need a smaller one!

The thing is you have to get it right - the perfect size with world class cambering 

If you look at it fairly , i think most would agree that Menangle which is 1400 metres i think  is a  mile too big , and has got the worst and most boring trotting in Aust , i dont even watch it , got zero interest in it , if i had my way id chop 400 metres off it , and if push came to shove id prefer GP at 800 to Menangles 1400 

The real dissappointing thing is WA through M Radley seem to be rushing this through , there is no real proper debate/discussion , where as the Qld Chairman re the Gold Coast development has said we must get this right and all options are on the table and  will be considered and looked at 

I  do think staying at GP would be a wise decision so Trotting has got a proper Metropolitan identity , and i think Aust wide Trotting is really in the doldrums , one could nearly say irrelevant , NSW and Vic recording big losses 

I  think the main reason for that is both those states have lost their Metropolitan  identity , i have sung the praise of the Melton track , but on Sat night there was an infield shot of the surrounds/stands and crowd and i thought to myself what an utter shiit box , they gave up Moonee Valley which had a top track with world class facilities and in a vibrant spot in Moonee Ponds

NSW had to sell HP , - enormous money bailed out/saved the industry , but why go to Menangle basically an hour from Syd , and there is nothing picturesque out their eg Camden 

Should have put a track inside Canterbury gallops track - keep the Metro presence - Railway station their - nice grandstands , great lawned areas , with the real bonus the parade ring is their in the open for the spectators , not hidden away like alot of tracks 

Im quite envious of the Canterbury Frid night circuit gallops probably got 7-8 Frid night meetings in a row that could and should have been Sydney Harness racing 

I think Trotting Aust wide ( yes there are several country towns who really love and support the harness racing with very good attendaces ) but i think Metropolitan Trotting Aust wide is basically irrelevant

Rocket_Reign

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

Cant_Refuse

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

good on them for a good meeting. Well done to get all the holiday folks thru the gates.
I have plenty I can say but I can’t really be bothered. No point arguing with folks like Jar jar who clearly have an agenda and chose to only cherry pick the information that suits their narrative.

jum

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

I've watched this argument/Debate go back and forth now for what feels like years.

So, I'll put my perspective on it. Just throw my 2 cents worth in from someone that is completely nonbiased as I do not train or own Pacers.

I'm going to go on a different train of thought here so bear with me please.

I get your thoughts Rocket, that these meetings are losing money. And people on here want to shut them down and try and hold onto what they have and maximize the money that is available.

But you just can't. If you do not promote your sport outside the box it is in, how is your sport supposed to grow. 

I will use our biggest sporting body to highlight my thoughts. the AFL.

Imagine them not propping up the WAFL, SANFL and other leagues around the country. They pump in millions to those leagues so they can filter that money down to clubs and even lower leagues to prop them up.  Imagine the AFL saying they are bleeding us dry, lets close those leagues. That will never happen simply because they need their grassroots to generate the key players in their industry. AND THAT IS THE PARTICIPANTS. more participants create a greater/higher standard. which also creates more competition which also generates more viewing, which also generates more income from the public in some way shape or form. 

If the racing industry (All Codes not just pacing) keeps diluting the pool and shutting tracks and not propping them up. How the hell are you ever going to get more participants involved in a sport that is already very hard to get involved In. 

You can only grow your sport with people being able to view the product.  If the harness world closes these country tracks and race predominately at 3 tracks racing weekdays with zero crowds. I predict the code will be dead within 25 years or if not at levels just below SA the last 10 years. 

I'm not having a go at anyone here. Just my opinion that if you want your sport to grow, whatever that sport is. You need to promote your product the best you can with great experiences and try and get people through the gates to experience it and not dilute it down and hide it away with midweek fixtures at venues nobody wants to attend.

These country venues Albany, Busselton and Collie and their committees should be very proud. for fighting tooth and nail to keep their meetings going. Because they generate the most viewing oncourse than anywhere else. which can only be a good thing for the industry. Its a great promotion and you just might not be able to put a price on that at the moment in an industry that is sliding down the wrong side of a slippery slope. 

Rocket_Reign

jum said:

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

I've watched this argument/Debate go back and forth now for what feels like years.

So, I'll put my perspective on it. Just throw my 2 cents worth in from someone that is completely nonbiased as I do not train or own Pacers.

I'm going to go on a different train of thought here so bear with me please.

I get your thoughts Rocket, that these meetings are losing money. And people on here want to shut them down and try and hold onto what they have and maximize the money that is available.

But you just can't. If you do not promote your sport outside the box it is in, how is your sport supposed to grow. 

I will use our biggest sporting body to highlight my thoughts. the AFL.

Imagine them not propping up the WAFL, SANFL and other leagues around the country. They pump in millions to those leagues so they can filter that money down to clubs and even lower leagues to prop them up.  Imagine the AFL saying they are bleeding us dry, lets close those leagues. That will never happen simply because they need their grassroots to generate the key players in their industry. AND THAT IS THE PARTICIPANTS. more participants create a greater/higher standard. which also creates more competition which also generates more viewing, which also generates more income from the public in some way shape or form. 

If the racing industry (All Codes not just pacing) keeps diluting the pool and shutting tracks and not propping them up. How the hell are you ever going to get more participants involved in a sport that is already very hard to get involved In. 

You can only grow your sport with people being able to view the product.  If the harness world closes these country tracks and race predominately at 3 tracks racing weekdays with zero crowds. I predict the code will be dead within 25 years or if not at levels just below SA the last 10 years. 

I'm not having a go at anyone here. Just my opinion that if you want your sport to grow, whatever that sport is. You need to promote your product the best you can with great experiences and try and get people through the gates to experience it and not dilute it down and hide it away with midweek fixtures at venues nobody wants to attend.

These country venues Albany, Busselton and Collie and their committees should be very proud. for fighting tooth and nail to keep their meetings going. Because they generate the most viewing oncourse than anywhere else. which can only be a good thing for the industry. Its a great promotion and you just might not be able to put a price on that at the moment in an industry that is sliding down the wrong side of a slippery slope. 

Yeah I agree with what you’re saying, maybe there’s middle ground to be found where they race for far less prize money to keep themselves sustainable? Similar to sports where the top tier is well paid and the lower is closer to a love job

jum

So, you're telling me the top tier is sustainable at the moment and keeping the industry afloat.

In my eyes if you have a top tier and a bottom tier and no in-between. Where is the middle ground to progress to the top tier. Then the top tier starts to dilute, and you dilute the product even more with no competition. Only the strong survive. Which is no good for any industry.

 And just looking at the prizemoney. There not exactly racing for Ferraris and Mercs down at Busso. 

5 races were worth less than $6K. To me working horses 7 days a week hoping to pick up the odd $3k check is a love job. 

But that's just me and I don't know the finer intricate details of the industry. Its just my opinion.

 

JayJay

Will never convince Rocket and Can't Refuse, ever, but will just keep posting facts, not cherry picked, just actual RWWA supplied facts and numbers.

The description of Busselton 'hemorrhaging" money is complete and utter nonsense, it is the narrative that is constantly circulated and it is totally false.

Firstly on percentages, on a revenue generated/prizemoney paid basis, Busselton is one of the best performing harness clubs. It returns 58.1 cents in the dollar, higher than GP Midweeks at 56.8 cents in the dollar, much higher than GP Friday Nights 40.5 cents in the dollar and higher than the Industry average of 48.6 cents in the dollar. Those figures are for RWWA's financial year 2023 which I believe is July to July.

But we don't bank percentages, we bank dollars. Busselton generated $117,989 on stakes paid of $203,100, a loss of $85,111.

Gloucester Park Friday night meetings generated $6,153,883 on stakes paid of $15,188,250, a loss of $9,034, 367.

Not a cherry in sight here, picked or unpicked, just facts. The only place hemorrhaging money is self evident and it ain't Busselton. But keep posting your nonsense and I will keep posting reality. GP as the premiere track should be carrying the Industry, it isn't, no matter what rose coloured interpretation the acolytes circulate. Spending a lousy $85k to help keep the Industry alive is nothing in the scheme of things compared to the financial blackhole that Friday Nights have become.

Subsequent to these  2023 figures, with harness turnover falling and below 12% of overall investment, the Industry return is below 40 cents in the dollar and if you want to talk stake cuts, if Friday Night Metro meetings raced for what they are earning, the metro stake would be about $8,000. More pesky facts.

Chariotsonfire

Busselton is unique and always has been. I can remember the then Secretary/Manager Jack Sheedy telling me that the $40,000 plus betting turnover that I recorded on Boxing Day 1977 was a record that had never been surpassed. The RBA inflation calculator equates that to $250,000 today.

I probably lost as those were the days when the father/son combination of John and Tom Marsden dominated Busselton winning anything from 3 to 5 races per meeting with a big local following. At 2.5% turnover tax plus a stand fee my contribution to the Club would have been about $1200.

jum

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything JJ. I'm just saying that in any sport or business you need to promote it as best you can and get it to the masses and make sure they have an enjoyable time. Big business sport in the world is all about the Punting as well. The NFL, NBA, NHL, EPL and even the AFL. They are major sporting events with massive crowds and the actual venues are sold out events. Showcasing the sport. Hence their turnover is up.

Why is this??????  It's because people go to the venue live enjoy it so much that when they don't go, they will continue to back/follow a team. 

jum

I had a whole novel written out. But it's not worth the debate, so I deleted half of it. 

I was just giving my opinions on how i think it is only beneficial for these country meeting to keep going ahead and getting the harness racing product out to the wider masses. 

Because at the moment the 3 codes are going backwards

freodockers

jum said:

I had a whole novel written out. But it's not worth the debate, so I deleted half of it. 

I was just giving my opinions on how i think it is only beneficial for these country meeting to keep going ahead and getting the harness racing product out to the wider masses. 

Because at the moment the 3 codes are going backwards

Your 100% correct Jum.
When it became 100% about turnover everything lost its way. The biggest earners got all the favours and the lowest codes got shitcanned.
Every business has a cost, if that is country racing so be it (you still need it). But if your biggest potential profit earner (GP) is running at a loss then you are in serious trouble.
I reckon 25 yrs is being very hopeful.

freodockers

I cannot believe that the topical conversation Is which clubs to close and GP redevelopment.
The main conversation should be around where do we build a training facility for young trainers and how many stables should we build.
That is where growth comes from, have a look at the 2yo field today at Pinjarra. RWWA identified an issue, put a programme in place and people started breeding again. Long gone are the 4 horse 2yo fields.

Chopchop43

freodockers said:

I cannot believe that the topical conversation Is which clubs to close and GP redevelopment.
The main conversation should be around where do we build a training facility for young trainers and how many stables should we build.
That is where growth comes from, have a look at the 2yo field today at Pinjarra. RWWA identified an issue, put a programme in place and people started breeding again. Long gone are the 4 horse 2yo fields.

In regards a training facility , huge fan of the idea of it , but I'd imagine to warrant building one you'd want to see an upwards trend of people entering the industry rather than leaving it, to justify that sort of investment , bigger fish to fry in terms of making the sport attractive for people to want to become active participants

freodockers

Chopchop43 said:

freodockers said:

I cannot believe that the topical conversation Is which clubs to close and GP redevelopment.
The main conversation should be around where do we build a training facility for young trainers and how many stables should we build.
That is where growth comes from, have a look at the 2yo field today at Pinjarra. RWWA identified an issue, put a programme in place and people started breeding again. Long gone are the 4 horse 2yo fields.

In regards a training facility , huge fan of the idea of it , but I'd imagine to warrant building one you'd want to see an upwards trend of people entering the industry rather than leaving it, to justify that sort of investment , bigger fish to fry in terms of making the sport attractive for people to want to become active participants

Not even going to respond.

Chopchop43

freodockers said:

Chopchop43 said:

freodockers said:

I cannot believe that the topical conversation Is which clubs to close and GP redevelopment.
The main conversation should be around where do we build a training facility for young trainers and how many stables should we build.
That is where growth comes from, have a look at the 2yo field today at Pinjarra. RWWA identified an issue, put a programme in place and people started breeding again. Long gone are the 4 horse 2yo fields.

In regards a training facility , huge fan of the idea of it , but I'd imagine to warrant building one you'd want to see an upwards trend of people entering the industry rather than leaving it, to justify that sort of investment , bigger fish to fry in terms of making the sport attractive for people to want to become active participants

Not even going to respond.

well explain to me why it would be a great idea to sink millions of dollars into something for an industry that is stagnate, wouldn't you want to wait to see some improvement as far as numbers before making that investment ??? Or do we want another money blackhole ??

freodockers

Apologies ChopChop I’ve had my happy ???? pill.
The question continually comes up from “what would you do” to turn things around.
Well the most obvious thing (that’s never been done before in WA) is a dedicated training facility for new trainers.
Just my opinion but that is a platform to build off.
Any redevelopments would follow based on results.

Gilgamesh

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

Do they require a $24.7 million handout to keep operating aswell????

Chopchop43

freodockers said:

Apologies ChopChop I’ve had my happy ???? pill.
The question continually comes up from “what would you do” to turn things around.
Well the most obvious thing (that’s never been done before in WA) is a dedicated training facility for new trainers.
Just my opinion but that is a platform to build off.
Any redevelopments would follow based on results.

like I said I like the idea of it 100% I'd probably use it myself, but if we are struggling to get people into the industry as participants as is I just fear it could just end up being a massive money pit and one the industry really can't afford at the moment, if the industry can do a full 360 and get people wanting to train especially the younger generation by all means great idea

AbbysAce

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

Who held more in the win tote pool?

Race 7 last Friday night at Gloucester Park or

Race 7 last night at Busselton

Cant_Refuse

AbbysAce said:

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Gil, been going there forever, never ever seen a crowd like last night, it was an outstanding promotion by the club for it's 75th Anniversary. Like being in side show alley at the Royal Show.

The Tote Area was jam packed, 8 machines operating with queues of 10 to 12 in line throughout, food vans ranging from Indonesian, Big Spud and the famous Donut stall.

No doubt some churlish comment (or complete silence) from the "all you want to do is race in front of a 100 people and drink $5 buck stubbies" brigade, they can think and say what they like, but an unreal atmosphere and super competitive racing and a hates off to Dennis Russell, Sara King and Michelle Charman and all the volunteers.

I’ll chime in just so you don’t think I’m radio silent, it’s great that they get a big crowd etc atmosphere is great.
This is all brilliant same with Collie.
This doesn’t change the fact that they’re our most expensive tracks and are hemorrhaging money, for them to become only a small loss they’d have to race for half the stakes they do now and I guess that wouldn’t change the crowd etc so would probably be a possibility rather than ceasing racing there

Who held more in the win tote pool?

Race 7 last Friday night at Gloucester Park or

Race 7 last night at Busselton

who bets into the tote pool?

P.s Cherry picking at its finest

jum

Cant_Refuse said:

AbbysAce said:

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

who bets into the tote pool?

P.s Cherry picking at its finest

I believe people on course do. Which is really saying something

JayJay

You can engage in childish name calling (Jar jar), deride country tracks with the "100 people drinking 5 buck stubbies" cat call, the cherry picking nonsense, the hidden agenda narrative....all of the shallow responses you wish to throw, water off a ducks back.

But....and this is the point....the figures quoted refuting the claim on Busselton "hemorrhaging" money and being our most "expensive track" are not opinions,they are not cherry picked numbers, they are facts.

The return on stakes paid of 58.1 cents in the dollar on revenue generated by Busselton meetings and the 40.5 cents in teh dollar return on Friday Night GP meetings, covers all revenue sources, all corporates, all point of consumption income, the whole shooting match, not just Tabtouch. Yet still the myth gets continually perpetuated that Friday Nights props up the industry. It simply doesn't, it is not doing it's job, it is failing dismally.

I'll say it again, pointless I know for those who either don't listen or cannot comprehend.....Of the $15 million dollar shortfall in revenue in harness racing, over $9 million of that loss "hemorrhages" out of GP Friday Nights.....fact, not opinion or assertion, not cherry picked numbers, just facts.

Harness turnover is currently running at less than 12% of overall turnover....fact. Punters are not betting on Harness Racing....fact.The product, much like a failed product line in Woollies, is not attractive to the buyer, it is not leaving the shelf. Fact.

So whatever it is, handicapping, programming, breeding incentives, whatever you wish to focus on for whatever reason, management, personnel or whatever, the product is broken, and doing nothing and maintaining status quo is not an option, no matter what spin you put on it.

Gilgamesh

Back on my initial comment re track size. You can have a 600m track or a 1600m track but the thing that we had different on boxing day was actual handicapping (combined with the unpredictability of the stands).

This resulted in what i would guess about 80% of the connections in each race turning up to the course thinking they were at least some chance. Ultimately this results in moves, action, dare I say it entertainment.

Compare that to your usual Gloucester Park meet where no handicapping results in 80% of the connections turning up (if they even nominate for the "feature meeting") thinking they are no chance. Resulting in racing that is barely worth wattching on replay where you can watch the first 400m then fast forward to the last 400m, where all the horses are still in the same position trying to break the land speed record home to be in the finish.

Ive harped on it for a while but for the sport to actually survive you need to be attracting losing punters. You don't want people losing all the time but if you don't have losers, you don't have prizemoney. If those losers are finding zero entertainment in their night they are highly likely to rather throw their $50 on same game multi's over the weekend then to whack it on a borefest at GP.

freodockers

Agree Gilga that is actually why I started the thread.
You do your form you can actually make $$ betting on a 600 mtr track with handicaps.
I think I will start another thread next meeting as it’s a long way back to the top.

Markovina

Gilgamesh said:

Back on my initial comment re track size. You can have a 600m track or a 1600m track but the thing that we had different on boxing day was actual handicapping (combined with the unpredictability of the stands).

This resulted in what i would guess about 80% of the connections in each race turning up to the course thinking they were at least some chance. Ultimately this results in moves, action, dare I say it entertainment.

Compare that to your usual Gloucester Park meet where no handicapping results in 80% of the connections turning up (if they even nominate for the "feature meeting") thinking they are no chance. Resulting in racing that is barely worth wattching on replay where you can watch the first 400m then fast forward to the last 400m, where all the horses are still in the same position trying to break the land speed record home to be in the finish.

Ive harped on it for a while but for the sport to actually survive you need to be attracting losing punters. You don't want people losing all the time but if you don't have losers, you don't have prizemoney. If those losers are finding zero entertainment in their night they are highly likely to rather throw their $50 on same game multi's over the weekend then to whack it on a borefest at GP.

I dont take sides , i just look at the facts , and i have just given Cant Refuse my 1st and probably only like , because someone quoted the Tote pools and they have become totally irrelevant , and you look at Syd and Melb re their quinella and trifecta pools have they dropped off at some tracks 

Your quoting Busso re standing starts - i go way way back and standing starts gave Trotting the unfortunate nickname of the Red Hots , and i dont care what anyone says it caused mass cheating , and if you decide to bring in alot more standing starts at every track thats what you can encourage , its so easy to bust something up at the start

I knew a trainer at the Royal Melb Showgrounds, his horses could ease from 5 to 2 to 15-1 and they didnt break at the start , instead  they would stand their like a camel  , the field would release , it would turn its head to the left , then turn its head to the right , maybe even have a look at the crowd , then when the field had gone 50 metres it would take a couple of baby steps and finally step away 

All these figures being quoted , like 12% etc , i want to see the Corp bookie holds , pick a race at GP and Busso say the Cup race , i want to see the total Win and Place invested with the Corp Bookies for each race then you are comparing apples with apples 

And just a question re the Finances , not into the detail but V,Landys just recently got the Syd gallops mob an etc 70 million in revenue by having some tax rate lifted , how does that work and can WA do the same thing