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WACHRA Survey Results

Harness & Greyhounds
Western Australian Country Harness Racing Association conducted a survey of Industry Participants. The results and responses are posted at the link below, along with added written feedback from 95 of the 162 respondents.

A meeting with Minister Papalia on Wednesday to discuss this data was called off due to his personal circumstances after WACHRA representatives had already traveled to Perth.Unfortunate but things happen.

These responses should be read in the light of persistent rumors swirling around concerning the RWWA's Board response this week to Club and Track rationalisation. It seems a decision has been made to proceed with rationalisation. Many country clubs and tracks will in all likelihood disappear. The previously failed concept of "Growing The Industry By Shrinking The Footprint" provides further evidence of Einsteins often quoted definition of Insanity.


It is a fairly big document but for those interested in the future of what will be a very small boutique code, it may be of some interest. Then again, it may not.
+1 -1

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Comments

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,975 posts
    Dont want to hijack your thread Jay Jay - but it is related - re country tracks and their future prospects 

    The pendulum has definitely swung too far - and maybe  the 1st way of correcting that - and Gilga has meticously outlined how HRNSW fund Broken Hill 

    But at Broken Hill tonight - they have got their only TAB meeting for the year 

    6 races  with very healthy $12,600 per race plus a 20k B/Hill Cup 

    Who is doing the review in WA - someone Brown i believe - well if he even has got half a brain and a bit of decency - and some knowledge of WA Trotting history - then that is the 1st line in the sand you draw mate - then you give Kal a similiar one off meeting , and with that type of stake momey on offer , without a shadow of doubt you will get some nice horses competing
  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts
    Laughable
  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    Only the dumb believe the reducing of clubs works, grow the industry by reducing the footprint now that's laughable.
  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts

    Only the dumb believe the reducing of clubs works, grow the industry by reducing the footprint now that's laughable.


    laughable to conduct a survey amongst a group of mates to get results that fit their agenda

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,765 posts
    It was an open survey, anyone could complete it, there were 162 responses and if you read the responses, you will see there were a number of respondents that agree with rationalisation and welcome it.

    So that sort of jaundiced conspiracy theory  of surveying "your mates" goes down the plughole as instantly flawed. WACHRA initiated the survey insisting on it being an open and untainted process by engaging an independent survey company to conduct it.

    By all means disagree with its findings but your half baked accusations are precisely on cue and in keeping with most of the simplistic shallow responses that typify your postings.

    LightningJake likes this post.

  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts
    JayJay said:

    It was an open survey, anyone could complete it, there were 162 responses and if you read the responses, you will see there were a number of respondents that agree with rationalisation and welcome it.

    So that sort of jaundiced conspiracy theory  of surveying "your mates" goes down the plughole as instantly flawed. WACHRA initiated the survey insisting on it being an open and untainted process by engaging an independent survey company to conduct it.

    By all means disagree with its findings but your half baked accusations are precisely on cue and in keeping with most of the simplistic shallow responses that typify your postings.

    And right on cue the fossil makes an appearance. Why didn’t they send it out to all industry participants? 162 responses is as pathetic as the survey.
    Should BOTRA and WACHRA be the only bodies… what a joke

    Swampgas, LightningJake dislikes this post.

  • MuldoonMuldoon    344 posts
    Anytime you jump on here CR all you're doing is attacking the man. What type of participant are you ?
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    172 posts
    Can openly say I never recieved any survey of any description

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts
    Muldoon said:

    Anytime you jump on here CR all you're doing is attacking the man. What type of participant are you ?


    one that doesn’t live in the past
  • BetonmeBetonme    213 posts

    Can openly say I never recieved any survey of any description

    I received it via Botra.


    LightningJake likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    172 posts
    Betonme said:

    Can openly say I never recieved any survey of any description

    I received it via Botra.



    yea went back through my emails no surveys there from botra
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    868 posts
    Yeah I didn’t get the survey either
  • SwampgasSwampgas    4 posts

    JayJay said:

    It was an open survey, anyone could complete it, there were 162 responses and if you read the responses, you will see there were a number of respondents that agree with rationalisation and welcome it.

    So that sort of jaundiced conspiracy theory  of surveying "your mates" goes down the plughole as instantly flawed. WACHRA initiated the survey insisting on it being an open and untainted process by engaging an independent survey company to conduct it.

    By all means disagree with its findings but your half baked accusations are precisely on cue and in keeping with most of the simplistic shallow responses that typify your postings.

    And right on cue the fossil makes an appearance. Why didn’t they send it out to all industry participants? 162 responses is as pathetic as the survey.
    Should BOTRA and WACHRA be the only bodies… what a joke

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
  • SwampgasSwampgas    4 posts
    BOTRA... Breeders, Owners, Trainers, Reinsperson Association.. So why does WASBA(Breeders) and HROA(Owners Association.. who I might add were deregistered for near on the last 19 years) have a berth on HRCG meetings when they are covered by BOTRA.. why isn't there a Trainers Body and Reinsperson body at HRCG meetings?.. now that's what is really laughable.. at least WACHRA are there to represent the Country Clubs. BOTRA should be there too of course.. so a fair question I thought.

    LightningJake, JayJay likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    BOTRA'S represents trainers and drivers as per the act.

    LightningJake likes this post.

    Cant_Refuse dislikes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    Should only be one group representing all as it was originally.

    LightningJake likes this post.

    Cant_Refuse dislikes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    868 posts
    Yeah the problem with that is you get a dill in charge that rather than push for the better of the industry they push to lower it down to their own level

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,765 posts
    The "push for the better of the industry" by the prevailing structure of the Harness Racing Consultative Group (Gloucester Park, the ubiquitous HROA that hived off from BOTRA to represent who knows how few owners whilst being unregistered for decades, BOTRA, WACHRA and WASBA) has been a roaring success producing:
    • a disastrous drop in the overall harness share of turnover to less than 11%
    • a return of now less than 40 cents in the dollar of revenue generated over stakes paid.
    • A failed NBM that has not achieved any of its KPI's 5 years after introduction.
    • A continuing decline in licensed personal, the ever shrinking footprint.
    • A mass exodus of on course patrons in attendance at the prime venue. 
    • Programming disaster after disaster with community level events now the norm to bolster metro racing whilst still having 5 horse FFA's
    • An almost total blackout of any media coverage of harness racing.
    The level to which the industry has sunk to is unsustainable, it is heavily subsidised by the other codes, the stakes paid are more than double than what should be on offer and the solution is to concentrate racing even more at the prime venue that is responsible for 70% of the losses that the industry incurs (RWWA figures). 

    That is reality, not opinion, and no one could push it further "down to their own level".

    Now the above will in all probability trigger certain respondents into another round of ageist personal insults and name calling. Go for your life, it says more about you than it does about me, I love living rent free in your head.

    warrenrobinson, loose_goose likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,975 posts
    I can remember Greg Hayes saying ( and i liked him - dont know whats happened to him ) but he was on Sky Channel and in his normal straight forward fashion just said - look Trotting in WA is a main line or main stream sport- he had just returned from a visit to WA  and it once was 

    Im trying to remember when he said that - ive been back in WA since 2012 - and i reckon he said that about that time - so in dozen years WA Trotting has basically become irrelevant - fallen off the cliff

    But to be perfectly fair  all Trotting Aust wide has become - is people with some money - lets bring in some nice New Zealand horses 

    M W Boots leads the way - hed have 50 horses on the books i reckon - spread  them between 20-25 trainers - Bob Melsopp might even have 1 of his - and 95% of his horses are NZ horses 

    Rocket does the same - so does Bond - Hall - Reed - Howlett , Andy Gath in Victoria , Amanda and Jenny Turnbull in Bathurst - and plenty of Qld trainers 

    The only one flying the Aust bred flag , swimming against the tide one could say is Emma Stewart , plus  the Mildura version of Emma being Miss Naomi Kerr ( dont forget that name ) shed have presently i reckon 30-35 tried horses ( been with other owners - trainers  etc ) and boy oh boy does she improve them out of sight 

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,883 posts
    Having read the survey there was one area that I was surprised with and that was the support for a  return to Sires Stakes racing. In my opinion the most positive initiative for the breeding industry was the move to a mares based system that vastly improved the quality of Westbred racing. If anyone took the time to research the results of the Sires Stakes finals you would find some very average horses winning $100,000 races. That is not the case with the Westbred finals in the modern era.
    Unfortunately the industry in WA is not big enough to support top quality stallions. 

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    868 posts
    The HROA seem to be working well, branched off because no one had confidence or wanted to support Botra, obviously more approachable now Donald has taken over.
    No secret the industry is in decline which is why people are pushing for change but the fossils don’t want it

    Chopchop43, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    172 posts
    In all fairness I think past iterations of botra should take some of the blame for the state of the industry, they were meant to be a voice for the participants and after there piss poor attempt at conveying our displeasure at the hwoe system to rwwa after the meeting we had with botra at Byford, they lost my vote of confidence for sure and certain, hats off to donald for the job his doing at the moment but is it a little too late
  • JayJayJayJay    7,765 posts
    Yes and no Chariots on the quality of the winners. Sires Stakes racing started in 1977 for a modest $11,400 stake.

    Successive winners (colts) were Padraig, All Braid, San Simeon, Tommy Steel, Leetron, Flying Romeo, Argyle Gem...Stakes had reached $35k by 1984, for Pindari Way, Trunkey Jaguar, Paavo, Pardon Me Boys, Copyrite, Almagest, Streaky Bay, Ace Of Whitby, Flashing Star, Trunkey Maseratti, Whistlin Eagle, Hail The Judge, Renascentur, Krooze Mode, Alcaola, Disco Force, Hydroflyte, Your Call Lombo and Western Apache in 2003 racing for $60k. 

    The first $100k race won by Mista Tigga, Devastating, Jack Cantell, Silver Tail Adda, James Matthew, Pardons Dragon, Nik Nak Hero, Cyclone Mitch, Getaway Plan, Kimba Bay, All Aussie Boy and Johnny Disco in 2015. After that I think it was open slather sire wise for this race. Similar profile of the winners of the fillies as well.

    The breeding industry has shrunk dramatically sire wise since the days of the Trunkey Stallions and Annear's Adios Vic and Romeo Hanover and many others and I think Artificial Insemination has been a big factor, both fresh and frozen, with obvious benefits to bloodlines. Nowadays, you are spot on, there are not enough sires, top quality or otherwise to support Sires Stake racing.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    Propaganda is information especially of biased and misleading nature to promote a cause or point of view.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,793 posts
    It was another night of exhilarating racing from head quarters on friday, should definitely be pushing for more of that if we want to grow new excited supporters of the sport.

    JayJay likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    584 posts
    7 leaders won and 3 won from outside the leader.

    I dont think there was any mid race moves for the whole meeting.

    Where have the tactics gone? Or is it all worked out before they go out there?

    Can we bring back the pony races so I can watch a race where something exciting might happen?

    Gilgamesh, JayJay, LightningJake likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,765 posts
    edited March 17

    The HROA seem to be working well, branched off because no one had confidence or wanted to support Botra, obviously more approachable now Donald has taken over.
    No secret the industry is in decline which is why people are pushing for change but the fossils don’t want it



    The HROA "branched off" probably before you were born Rocket, don't know the exact date but 30 plus years ago probably, long before any of those associated with BOTRA's leadership both now and in the past 20 years were even on the committee. It was not an incorporated body for about two decades. It would be helpful if you dealt in facts, not in jaundiced opinions.

    Be interested to see your "blueprint" for change...may have to phone a friend....and even more interested to see how those changes will turn around facts like harness's share of overall turnover at just 11%, GP operating at under 40 cents in the dollar on a Friday night with the exhilarating racing that those in power seem to enjoy so much but which punters reject entirely. 

    The reality is the product is broken. Those that love GSL 1 and win RBD racing with $1.10 favourites every Friday Night and benefit hugely from that totally predictable style of racing (see above two posts) in front of 80 patrons should make their hay while the sun shines because the days of a heavily subsidised industry are very numbered.

    loose_goose, LightningJake likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    114 posts
    The only way forward is for a parliamentary inquiry into RWWA'S management into Harness Racing and throw one into the management of Gloucester Park it's the only way to the truth.

    AbbysAce, LightningJake likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    172 posts
    JayJay said:

    The HROA seem to be working well, branched off because no one had confidence or wanted to support Botra, obviously more approachable now Donald has taken over.
    No secret the industry is in decline which is why people are pushing for change but the fossils don’t want it



    The HROA "branched off" probably before you were born Rocket, don't know the exact date but 30 plus years ago probably, long before any of those associated with BOTRA's leadership both now and in the past 20 years were even on the committee. It was not an incorporated body for about two decades. It would be helpful if you dealt in facts, not in jaundiced opinions.

    Be interested to see your "blueprint" for change...may have to phone a friend....and even more interested to see how those changes will turn around facts like harness's share of overall turnover at just 11%, GP operating at under 40 cents in the dollar on a Friday night with the exhilarating racing that those in power seem to enjoy so much but which punters reject entirely. 

    The reality is the product is broken. Those that love GSL 1 and win RBD racing with $1.10 favourites every Friday Night and benefit hugely from that totally predictable style of racing (see above two posts) in front of 80 patrons should make their hay while the sun shines because the days of a heavily subsidised industry are very numbered.

    gp is no orphan when it comes to gs l, short priced favourites winning on the regular, again collie last season drew a very good comparison to gp Friday night's I think the majority of the 800m or smaller tracks are extremely leader biased, unless we go to bigger tracks, sprint lanes and a change in the handicapping system be resigned to these results quiet regularly

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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