Cam Brown interview.Harness & Greyhounds

JayJay

The problem with Gloucester Park is that it is privately owned. Staying and redeveloping the site in it's entirety for income, would not see the income stream generated necessarily flow to the Industry at Pinjarra (or elsewhere), just as an entire sale would not see funding returned to the Industry. Perhaps the only way out is for Government to resume the land.

The idea of a partial sell off for questionable returns, and a quasi redevelopment which will COST the industry a minimum of $24.7 million, a figure that will balloon out over time, resulting in maintaining an already out of date 800m track, and a new pavilion for the 300 remaining members, is quite simply pythonesque.Even more bizarre is the idea that this will lift turnover and change the perilous state of the Industry, currently operating on a $36 million annual deficit. 

Even more bizarre is the thought that shrinking the footprint in the regions and maintaining the concentration of racing at a location that has almost no horses trained within a say 20km radius and that is, and will become, increasingly inaccessible, is indicative of how one particular lobby group can have such a profound and self interested influence on decision making.

Meanwhile, the facility is crumbling, the roses are dieing, the rubbish is mounting, the patrons are absent and the camels are on the horizon. Rome is on fire and the fiddlers are working overtime.

savethegame

How did the amalgamation and sale of Richmond Raceway endup they were having 12 meetings a year at Gloucester Park stakes funded by RWWA, they had 775 000 in the bank getting charged fee of 10k to hold a meeting at G.P. they paid staff, all advertising etc
They also had money stream from properties they owned. also something that was to take place in 2036.? Re investment
Constitutions they had to have 100 per cent. of members turn up with 75 per cent in agreement to implement amalgamation. Also had 4 million in Commercial property where they received rental income,
RWWA was keen for F.TC.& WATA to have a asset base where they could generate Non industry income.

There was talk Freo --Pinjarra may merger?which RWWA response was over our dead body.

savethegame

savethegame said:

How did the amalgamation and sale of Richmond Raceway endup they were having 12 meetings a year at Gloucester Park stakes funded by RWWA, they had 775 000 in the bank getting charged fee of 10k to hold a meeting at G.P. they paid staff, all advertising etc
They also had money stream from properties they owned. also something that was to take place in 2036.? Re investment
Constitutions they had to have 100 per cent. of members turn up with 75 per cent in agreement to implement amalgamation. They had 225 members
Also had 4 million in Commercial property where they received rental income,

RWWA was keen for F.TC.& WATA to have a asset base where they could generate Non industry income.

There was talk Freo --Pinjarra may merger?which RWWA response was over our dead body.

JayJay

Fremantle Trotting Club did not own Richmond raceway, they leased it off the WATA. Whilst the club continued racing at Gloucester Park (12 Friday Nights per year as per STG's post above, $10k fee per meeting etc.), the sale proceeds of $3.1 million were put into an investment account. Buildings were bought and sold, the balance grew over time but there was a built in termination clause stating that the account could not not be shut until 2036 (the year the lease was to expire). Who knows what it's current balance is.

In June 2010 at the  Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee inquiring into RWWA under Chairperson John McGrath, it was stated that ALL 225 members of FTC had to attend a meeting in person at that a 75% majority was required for there to be a merger of FTC and the WATA to form the "new" GPHRC, a logistical impossibility. FTC President Gino Monaco spoke strongly against the merger as did Geoff Warwick and Ross Pyke.

There was talk of changing the FTC Constitution to enable proxy votes. Something must have occurred because on August 2nd, 2011, the merger was announced. Mr Monaco, currently a GPHRC Committee person, had changed his view, strongly supporting the merger as quoted in The West on that day.

I don't know of RWWA's attitude to a more sensible FTC/Pinjarra merger but RWWA were already hard at work "rationalising" the industry  via shrinking the footprint, with the closure of Geraldton Trotting Club by refusing it any more dates.

Management of Harness Racing in WA, and probably Australia, has been a 3 ring circus for the past 3 decades (at least)

Chariotsonfire

JayJay I don't often disagree with you but if you think Geraldton was a must save for the industry based on all the data available I am perplexed.

Anyway too far from Manjimup for you to attend.

Chopchop43

JayJay said:

The problem with Gloucester Park is that it is privately owned. Staying and redeveloping the site in it's entirety for income, would not see the income stream generated necessarily flow to the Industry at Pinjarra (or elsewhere), just as an entire sale would not see funding returned to the Industry. Perhaps the only way out is for Government to resume the land.

The idea of a partial sell off for questionable returns, and a quasi redevelopment which will COST the industry a minimum of $24.7 million, a figure that will balloon out over time, resulting in maintaining an already out of date 800m track, and a new pavilion for the 300 remaining members, is quite simply pythonesque.Even more bizarre is the idea that this will lift turnover and change the perilous state of the Industry, currently operating on a $36 million annual deficit. 

Even more bizarre is the thought that shrinking the footprint in the regions and maintaining the concentration of racing at a location that has almost no horses trained within a say 20km radius and that is, and will become, increasingly inaccessible, is indicative of how one particular lobby group can have such a profound and self interested influence on decision making.

Meanwhile, the facility is crumbling, the roses are dieing, the rubbish is mounting, the patrons are absent and the camels are on the horizon. Rome is on fire and the fiddlers are working overtime.

agree with 800m tracks being outdated , in extremely even fields they create an on-paced bias , leading to race cards with a large amount of short priced favourites leading and winning , however this isn't a gp only issue, I look back to the collie season last year as a prime example outside of the conundrum we have at gp , can't expect people to invest in the product as a participant or even as a punter if we continue to serve up these results across the board, not just at gp

JayJay

Haha, Chariots nothing is too far away from Manji, off to Keller this weekend for their 100 years celebration.

No, I don't think Greraldton was a "must save" but it never really had a chance with the lack of sky coverage at the time, and the number of meetings or season length was probably too long but to maintain a presence with a round  linked to some major thoroughbred meetings would have been much better. Closing it down completely removed all presence from the region.

The same argument could be applied to Kalgoorlie. I was only talking this morning about the names that have simply disappeared out of the Industry since the Golden Mile was shut down. Owners, trainers and others have just left, off down the road to the North Widgiemooltha marbles Association. A perfect facility gone to waste and the round at Kalgoorlie surely could have been retained.

I am heading to Keller with a certain hesitancy that they too are facing the axe. Relocating their meetings to Northam will be the end of any involvement in the North Eastern area, joining Wyalkatchem, Trayning, Merredin and Cunderdin. Every rationalisation ever attempted in order to prop up Gloucester Park has never achieved anything, the footprint is reduced and the decline in turnover has been exacerbated.

Rocket_Reign

JayJay said:

Haha, Chariots nothing is too far away from Manji, off to Keller this weekend for their 100 years celebration.

No, I don't think Greraldton was a "must save" but it never really had a chance with the lack of sky coverage at the time, and the number of meetings or season length was probably too long but to maintain a presence with a round  linked to some major thoroughbred meetings would have been much better. Closing it down completely removed all presence from the region.

The same argument could be applied to Kalgoorlie. I was only talking this morning about the names that have simply disappeared out of the Industry since the Golden Mile was shut down. Owners, trainers and others have just left, off down the road to the North Widgiemooltha marbles Association. A perfect facility gone to waste and the round at Kalgoorlie surely could have been retained.

I am heading to Keller with a certain hesitancy that they too are facing the axe. Relocating their meetings to Northam will be the end of any involvement in the North Eastern area, joining Wyalkatchem, Trayning, Merredin and Cunderdin. Every rationalisation ever attempted in order to prop up Gloucester Park has never achieved anything, the footprint is reduced and the decline in turnover has been exacerbated.

Just a question and not meaning to be sarcastic if it comes across that way but with Tom Groves retiring is there anyone left that trains in Keller? Or is everyone travelling from Northam and surrounds?

JayJay

No, a decent question. Not entirely sure, will find out on Sunday but David Goulden, Brett Postans, Dennis Dale off the top of my head.  Not sure how many train from Gloucester Park.

JayJay

Some of the 'travel time" data presented as potential occupational health reasons to close some tracks is a bit mischievous, or maybe that's not the word, but taken with a grain of salt at least.

I'd suggest the time for Barry Howlett or Aiden DeCampo or Justin Prentice to get to GP on Friday night and home again, is roughly the same as say a trip from Serpentine to Kellerberrin, possibly worse if the freeway is being uncooperative or there is a game on at Optus but the closure of GP would never be countenanced. Similar to Barry or Aiden going to Albany which very often has sustained their meetings but again, I don't think Albany would face the chop.

I just keep coming back to the importance of maintaining as wide a footprint as possible along with due consideration of the importance of the Trot Meetings in country towns as very important community events. The Nannup Music festival or the Balingup Medieval Gathering or Wagin Woolarama all help sustain the 'community" and any suggestion to shift them to Bunbury or Pinjarra or Northam would also not be considered for a second. Busselton trots or Collie trots in Bunbury would be without doubt the end of those two clubs.Country towns face enough challenges to survive as it is, centralisation creates unsustainable ghost towns and is the death of the fabric of country towns. 

We need to re-build the harness industry from the base up, not strangle it from the top down.

savethegame

With 100 years at Keller. Was surprised that Traying & District Trotting Club was formed in 1917 was the first country club to be affiliated with W.A T A .

G.M.T C started building track 1914 war broke out

Jay Jay without alot research North Eastern Districts horses questionable? My best on my memory
Cunderdin----Daintys Daughter
Meckering--- Billy Two Hats
Northam ---- Nixon Adios
Merriden----- Yankee Rhythm
Southern Cross ----Three Half Whites
Kellerberrin ---- Kiwi Raider--Farmer elect Bow Mist
Coolgardie ----Warren Scott horse?
Wundowie-----Beau Don bred at Tammin?
Was Ricky Reason trained in Trayning?
Raider Adios & Three Aces from Merredin?

MT Kokeby horse that had one hopple four inches longer then the other one Johnson's horse

Rocket_Reign

JayJay said:

Some of the 'travel time" data presented as potential occupational health reasons to close some tracks is a bit mischievous, or maybe that's not the word, but taken with a grain of salt at least.

I'd suggest the time for Barry Howlett or Aiden DeCampo or Justin Prentice to get to GP on Friday night and home again, is roughly the same as say a trip from Serpentine to Kellerberrin, possibly worse if the freeway is being uncooperative or there is a game on at Optus but the closure of GP would never be countenanced. Similar to Barry or Aiden going to Albany which very often has sustained their meetings but again, I don't think Albany would face the chop.

I just keep coming back to the importance of maintaining as wide a footprint as possible along with due consideration of the importance of the Trot Meetings in country towns as very important community events. The Nannup Music festival or the Balingup Medieval Gathering or Wagin Woolarama all help sustain the 'community" and any suggestion to shift them to Bunbury or Pinjarra or Northam would also not be considered for a second. Busselton trots or Collie trots in Bunbury would be without doubt the end of those two clubs.Country towns face enough challenges to survive as it is, centralisation creates unsustainable ghost towns and is the death of the fabric of country towns. 

We need to re-build the harness industry from the base up, not strangle it from the top down.

Aiden is moving to Serpentine for this exact reason, remove the travel time

JayJay

Pretty much on the money i reckon STG.

Cunderdin --without doubt Dainty's Daugher

Meckering-- Kiwi Raider was Laurie Groves, also spent time with Tom before going to Kersleys, absolute star. Guides Creed, Canny Lad or Lass or Boy?

Northam -- Nixon Adios but many others as well from Jesse Moore owned by the Kannys, dozens of them, Wirrpunda, Trunkey Maseratti.Going way back, the Richters trained at Grass Valley, Kolector etc.

Merredin-- not sure on the timeline, I think Bill Warwick had moved to Fremantle by the time he got Yankee Rhythm (who then went to Les Poyser after a float carpark dispute). Ray Barnes horses. Express Adios, Cam Adios, all those other Whitfield horses

Wongan Hills --Minton Hall the standout for old Jack, Pensive Paul another.

Kellerberrin-- Bow Mist, Farmer Elect, Good Friday, Cressello and a batch of other Tiller horses.

Trayning--Ricky Reason for Coupers but Ray Sweetman drove him when he strung together around 15 in a row. Pauls Gift for the Harpers?

Yelbini--Blue Bob, Lucky Ben both top liners,  plus a host of other Clausen and Mourbey horses that ended up with Laurie Robinson. Amalphi was one of Mourbeys.

Mt Kokeby--Max had Weebo, Deep Shade, Miss Dundee all trained there at some stage

Wundowie trained Raider Adios and Electra for Fred Doy, also the potentially mighty Nat King for McNamara.

Kalannie--HyCraft and Peppercorn

Only scratching the surface, would be a month long research project and would still overlook plenty. Old Harry Bele was at Kulin or Hyden with Admiral Way and all those U Scott and Light Brigade mares before moving to Coolup. Yikes, it is a deep rabbit hole.

JayJay

I gotta stop thinking about this.

Honorable mentions to Bay Brigade, Miss Jenni Dee and John's Gamble for the Williams's at Wundowie and Northam, Aizon and Threat for Stan Doy at Wundowie, all the Clive Skipper horse Dew Renown, Emulari and later Agile Jack, Exclusive Way, Jesse had Gentle Ben at Northam and Silver express, Norwest Boy, The Vigilante, Jock had frost Ruler at Cunderdin, Mulcahy's had Sanello at Trayning, Kevin McNamara had classic winners Mystical Rose and Little Edward at Wundowie, another won of Tom's Ranton.

Time to bail out before this gets silly.

:))

getthechange

JayJay said:

No, a decent question. Not entirely sure, will find out on Sunday but David Goulden, Brett Postans, Dennis Dale off the top of my head.  Not sure how many train from GP

JayJay said:

No, a decent question. Not entirely sure, will find out on Sunday but David Goulden, Brett Postans, Dennis Dale off the top of my head.  Not sure how many train from Gloucester Park.

trackwork mornings G Park    Mike Reed 10-12       kevin Keys 2-3    Ryan Bell 6 - 14        Brett Smith 2 - 6        Simon Lowings  2-3      Sam Torre  3 -6     Rigoli  2-3           Sonia Zuchiati 3 -4    Annie Belton  $-6      Robin Zec 1=2

chris Phatouris 1 -2

Quite a few at Wanneroo 

Rocket_Reign

getthechange said:

JayJay said:

No, a decent question. Not entirely sure, will find out on Sunday but David Goulden, Brett Postans, Dennis Dale off the top of my head.  Not sure how many train from GP

JayJay said:

No, a decent question. Not entirely sure, will find out on Sunday but David Goulden, Brett Postans, Dennis Dale off the top of my head.  Not sure how many train from Gloucester Park.

trackwork mornings G Park    Mike Reed 10-12       kevin Keys 2-3    Ryan Bell 6 - 14        Brett Smith 2 - 6        Simon Lowings  2-3      Sam Torre  3 -6     Rigoli  2-3           Sonia Zuchiati 3 -4    Annie Belton  $-6      Robin Zec 1=2

chris Phatouris 1 -2

Quite a few at Wanneroo 

Byford - Pinjarra similar. Wonder how many are trackworking around Keller between meetings

getthechange

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Some of the 'travel time" data presented as potential occupational health reasons to close some tracks is a bit mischievous, or maybe that's not the word, but taken with a grain of salt at least.

I'd suggest the time for Barry Howlett or Aiden DeCampo or Justin Prentice to get to GP on Friday night and home again, is roughly the same as say a trip from Serpentine to Kellerberrin, possibly worse if the freeway is being uncooperative or there is a game on at Optus but the closure of GP would never be countenanced. Similar to Barry or Aiden going to Albany which very often has sustained their meetings but again, I don't think Albany would face the chop.

I just keep coming back to the importance of maintaining as wide a footprint as possible along with due consideration of the importance of the Trot Meetings in country towns as very important community events. The Nannup Music festival or the Balingup Medieval Gathering or Wagin Woolarama all help sustain the 'community" and any suggestion to shift them to Bunbury or Pinjarra or Northam would also not be considered for a second. Busselton trots or Collie trots in Bunbury would be without doubt the end of those two clubs.Country towns face enough challenges to survive as it is, centralisation creates unsustainable ghost towns and is the death of the fabric of country towns. 

We need to re-build the harness industry from the base up, not strangle it from the top down.

Aiden is moving to Serpentine for this exact reason, remove the travel time

JayJay said:

Some of the 'travel time" data presented as potential occupational health reasons to close some tracks is a bit mischievous, or maybe that's not the word, but taken with a grain of salt at least.

I'd suggest the time for Barry Howlett or Aiden DeCampo or Justin Prentice to get to GP on Friday night and home again, is roughly the same as say a trip from Serpentine to Kellerberrin, possibly worse if the freeway is being uncooperative or there is a game on at Optus but the closure of GP would never be countenanced. Similar to Barry or Aiden going to Albany which very often has sustained their meetings but again, I don't think Albany would face the chop.

I just keep coming back to the importance of maintaining as wide a footprint as possible along with due consideration of the importance of the Trot Meetings in country towns as very important community events. The Nannup Music festival or the Balingup Medieval Gathering or Wagin Woolarama all help sustain the 'community" and any suggestion to shift them to Bunbury or Pinjarra or Northam would also not be considered for a second. Busselton trots or Collie trots in Bunbury would be without doubt the end of those two clubs.Country towns face enough challenges to survive as it is, centralisation creates unsustainable ghost towns and is the death of the fabric of country towns. 

We need to re-build the harness industry from the base up, not strangle it from the top down.

re travel time - trainers race where their horse is most suited and drive to country tracks to achieve that - Hayden Reeves tarins at Coolup but rarely races horses at Pinjarra - Peter Anderson tarins at Byford but takes a truckload to country tracks most weeks

A lot of horses taht trackwork at Wanneroo and GP could start at GPC midweek but instead they choose to go to country tracks  - 

surely that is their choice to make and if it is costing them fuel  etc that  shouldnt concern RWWA

Arapaho

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Some of the 'travel time" data presented as potential occupational health reasons to close some tracks is a bit mischievous, or maybe that's not the word, but taken with a grain of salt at least.

I'd suggest the time for Barry Howlett or Aiden DeCampo or Justin Prentice to get to GP on Friday night and home again, is roughly the same as say a trip from Serpentine to Kellerberrin, possibly worse if the freeway is being uncooperative or there is a game on at Optus but the closure of GP would never be countenanced. Similar to Barry or Aiden going to Albany which very often has sustained their meetings but again, I don't think Albany would face the chop.

I just keep coming back to the importance of maintaining as wide a footprint as possible along with due consideration of the importance of the Trot Meetings in country towns as very important community events. The Nannup Music festival or the Balingup Medieval Gathering or Wagin Woolarama all help sustain the 'community" and any suggestion to shift them to Bunbury or Pinjarra or Northam would also not be considered for a second. Busselton trots or Collie trots in Bunbury would be without doubt the end of those two clubs.Country towns face enough challenges to survive as it is, centralisation creates unsustainable ghost towns and is the death of the fabric of country towns. 

We need to re-build the harness industry from the base up, not strangle it from the top down.

Aiden is moving to Serpentine for this exact reason, remove the travel time

Arapaho

Rocket, Will you be moving down to Albany Dec ,Jan and Feb see you had 36 starters there last year compared to 5 at your closest track Pinjarra not counting the couple of trotters you sent around in the same period'.

JayJay

I thought there might be a few more at GP as there is nowhere else for them to fastwork from the "Northern Eastern" corridor so to speak (other than Wanneroo) but I don't for one second doubt the numbers. The reality is that there would be very very few horses actually trained/jogged/stabled in the Metropolitan area, which I guess is why on the Issues Paper, they clumped Perth and Peel together. Historical stabling areas around Cannington, Herdsman, Osborne Park etc are long gone along with any remaining "inner city"stables.

I suspect however it is marriage of convenience with Peel (South of Thomas Road down to Waroona) holding the whip hand by a huge majority.

Either way, certainly Kellerberrins trackwork numbers would not approach Gloucester Parks and no one should have any doubts whatsoever about what the outcome of the Issues Paper will be, nobody has the block blinkers on. The bleeding obvious isn't called the bleeding obvious for nothing.

Without a shadow of a doubt, the die is already cast. Never open up a discussion paper or hold an inquiry unless you know what the outcome will be well before hand, to quote Sir Humphrey.

So, clearly, there will be a number of country tracks/clubs garrotted via actual closure or having their "quasi club dates" transferred to one of the more fancied venues. Whether it be Kellerberrin to Northam, Collie or Bridgetown to Bunbury, Williams to god knows where or whatever, the data presented all points that way. The question is the degree to which the guillotine will fall.

The question is will this "rationalisation" (such a nice word, a bit like using the time honored "being let go" instead of getting "the lemon and sars") solve the problem of rapidly disappearing turnover, alarming declines in licensed personnel and non sustainable foaling numbers in spite of having thrown multi millions at breeding incentives?

Based on numerous instances in the past, the answer is a resounding NO. Every past club and track closure in the last 40 years has achieved nothing other than widen the exits gates for both participants and punters. The participants leave (1985:  913 licensed drivers, 1187 licensed trainers and 1048 foals to 2023:262 licensed drivers, 168 licensed trainers and 336  foals) in spectacular numbers and punters leave at an even greater rate, Harness share of overall turnover at around 10 to 11%, down from historical high of 40+%.

When the product is so fundamentally broken, track closures or club closures will not solve a thing other than shrinking the footprint.

I am awaiting someone who will tell me how track closures will fix the problem.

So until someone lays out in crystal clear terms how shutting Kellerberrin or whatever will drive punters back to industry, I will keep on stating the obvious based on history. For what it is worth, I will make a submission by October 13th as asked for. I think this, and the change to the handicapping and programing  workshops in order to help fix the broken product is the last chance we have.

I am pretty sure I will be wasting my time, just as I have already been told I am crackers for driving 5 hours to Kellerberrin this Sunday. In line with GTC's very correct statement above about choices being made not being a concern of RWWA's, I expect to receive countenance from City Hall giving me a cost breakdown of the futility of my journey.

I very strongly support the retention of country clubs and I will not be put off that conviction until someone shows me how, going against historical precedence, it will fix our almost terminal problems. Instances of how one individual or one stable or one owner may personally benefit from such closures means very little with respect for the overall future of the industry.

Arapaho

To use distance as means to sway people minds to close down tracks is a joke, especially this day and age,

Horses were carted 100s sometime 1000s of miles to race back in the day on trains,ferrys in old floats,pulled by cars that would boil over every 50miles on dirt roads with no medium strips etc.

Before that they used to lead, ride  or drive them,sometimes taking days weeks or even months  to get to a race meeting.

Guess what, distance was never a issue then.

Every track in WA is far more accessible now, compared to back then.

The one exception is Gloucester Park .

As stated before, it is getting harder and harder and taking longer and longer as time goes by to reach GP.

It is a nightmare for horses with Fumes, traffic,traffic lights ,stops and starts,Truck air brakes and no constant fresh air flowing through floats.

Its a lot worse in summer and now to make matters worse the races have been brought forward to align with ES betting, putting the majority of participants into peak hour traffic and higher temperatures.

JayJay

Absolutely correct, the old two lane Great Eastern Highway was a death trap, especially from Bakers Hill to Northam, old Bunbury road not much better or the Albany highway heading south. I sometimes can't believe what I am hearing or reading about the bleeding hearts who conveniently never mention the inaccessibility of GP on a Friday or Tuesday afternoon.

warrenrobinson

The participants that believe in rationalization especially after it's been proved with facts stating what a disaster it has been for our industry must be very naive or dumb or even both.

Rocket_Reign

Arapaho said:

Rocket, Will you be moving down to Albany Dec ,Jan and Feb see you had 36 starters there last year compared to 5 at your closest track Pinjarra not counting the couple of trotters you sent around in the same period'.

I would love to move to Albany through summer unfortunately I’m a poor horse trainer not a turtle

Gilgamesh

Rocket_Reign said:

Arapaho said:

Rocket, Will you be moving down to Albany Dec ,Jan and Feb see you had 36 starters there last year compared to 5 at your closest track Pinjarra not counting the couple of trotters you sent around in the same period'.

I would love to move to Albany through summer unfortunately I’m a poor horse trainer not a turtle

Would there be opportunity through the club possibly RWWA for you to set up a satellite stable down there for the season if you had a staff member you could spare at home - reduce the travelling and assume most of those 30+ starters would have been from a bunch of say half a dozen horses.

How did a trainer like a Plozza (and im sure others) use to do it where they would seemingly basically move a group of horses from venue to venue as the season shifted?

Were they supported by the clubs or just whacking a whole heap of horses on a track meet after meet and heading out.

Rocket_Reign

Gilgamesh said:

Rocket_Reign said:

Arapaho said:

Rocket, Will you be moving down to Albany Dec ,Jan and Feb see you had 36 starters there last year compared to 5 at your closest track Pinjarra not counting the couple of trotters you sent around in the same period'.

I would love to move to Albany through summer unfortunately I’m a poor horse trainer not a turtle

Would there be opportunity through the club possibly RWWA for you to set up a satellite stable down there for the season if you had a staff member you could spare at home - reduce the travelling and assume most of those 30+ starters would have been from a bunch of say half a dozen horses.

How did a trainer like a Plozza (and im sure others) use to do it where they would seemingly basically move a group of horses from venue to venue as the season shifted?

Were they supported by the clubs or just whacking a whole heap of horses on a track meet after meet and heading out.

Plozzas were basing themself down there. Myself and Courtney did it for multiple years but we were moving our whole stable as we went.
The problem with setting up a satellite stable is you can’t be in both places at once not sure how the galloping stables do it.

Moonraker

when there was a proper circuit - ie Gero, Kal and Albany - it was more feasible for trainers to set themselves up to migrate from town to town for the seasons.

savethegame

There was a perfect opportunity when three tracks Geraldton, Kalgoorlie, Albany were in operation with each could have had a four month season.,
With Gypsy trianers being managed through RWWA with Retainers per week starting off with 5 horses teams etc operated on guarantee to provide the numbers. plus the trainers to recieve x amount regarding travel to this meetings especially Seeing now they can afford to move the winning post at G.P. for 24 miillion, plus how many employees they have on payroll

What happened for a period, Ken Norquay removed the 100 unplaced subsidy which in places like Kalgoorlie made a difference with rent more expensive feed, bad night 6 runners unplaced 600 could help with running of stable plus it only could substain three-- trainers with large teams when he removed the unplaced money

.What become very unhealthy that the smaller trainers would lease there horses out to one or two trainers , save them travelling to venues that suited there capabilities
then having three or four runners in each race from two stables, which started to erode punter confidence f

The Gallop trainers at Kalgoorlie recieve approx 450 back 10th. The trainers recieve 215 direct payment to them for racing on Sunday Last meeting one trainer had 24 runners 5,160 and stabled on course.

SureTrotting trainers get S.F A. for attending Sunday meetings an you have to rock up with only a bridle,

Moonraker

the circuit was also invaluable for young drivers  - not only the driving experience gained, but also the responsibility of looking after the team of horses in some cases, as well as the connections formed with the locals.

Markovina

savethegame said:

With 100 years at Keller. Was surprised that Traying & District Trotting Club was formed in 1917 was the first country club to be affiliated with W.A T A .

G.M.T C started building track 1914 war broke out

Jay Jay without alot research North Eastern Districts horses questionable? My best on my memory
Cunderdin----Daintys Daughter
Meckering--- Billy Two Hats
Northam ---- Nixon Adios
Merriden----- Yankee Rhythm
Southern Cross ----Three Half Whites
Kellerberrin ---- Kiwi Raider--Farmer elect Bow Mist
Coolgardie ----Warren Scott horse?
Wundowie-----Beau Don bred at Tammin?
Was Ricky Reason trained in Trayning?
Raider Adios & Three Aces from Merredin?

MT Kokeby horse that had one hopple four inches longer then the other one Johnson's horse

Look nothing much to do with Trotting , but my ears pricked when i saw you mention Coolgardie

Did the Syd - Perth trip many many times , and my favourite street in Aust without a shadow of doubt is the main street in Coolgardie , an absolute ripper , great big imposing wide thing , i read the history of that years back , it was setup like that for the bullock trains 

True story to put a racing slant on things , 6am in the morning i stopped their  to fuel up , independant servo , big beefy bloke owned/operated it maybe with the help of 1 of his daughters , anyhow he is in ernest racing discussion with this oher customer who would be about 60 , and i said to them , who are you talking about Connel , and they said yeah , and the customer bloke said he wasnt allowed on the Perth commitee because he cut the wires , delayed an interstate broadcast to his advantage- thats how keen they were they were talking abot racing at 6am in the morning