Is it too early for a review?

DamienWyer · November 8

No longer based in WA, I sometimes wonder what is going on over there from the little bits of information that come my way.

Depending on how he runs tomorrow, Overpass is the only horse of note or ability scheduled for the very expensive plane trip across the country. Several months ago I saw the TV advertising the carnival and the appeals to East Coast Trainers to get in contact with those booking spots. So at Flemington tomorrow, there are 3 x $3M races and Sydney is having a quiet day with just a $2M & $1M race on offer. A $500,000 race at this time of the year is not even a ripple on the pond. Money here is off the chain. As a result, WA is for third rate horses or those with interrupted campaigns consideration only.

So to is the appetite for more Gr1 races. We only get so many in Australia and surely there will be changes as for example at Rosehill tomorrow there is a $1M Gr3 and a $2M Listed !!

At the very best case scenario, the Perth Cup will be downgraded to Listed and the Railway Stakes can't be far behind as slipping to Gr2 due to a combination of both quality and stakes money on offer.

Should these things happen, the local breeding industry will suffer the knock on effects with lighter black type to offer in future sales catalogues. God knows it's in enough trouble with sales that are dominated by Playing God nominations.

I don't know who may have the answers over there but I can think of one person not to ask. She thought she was being interviewed by Hayden Ballantyne because the blokes first name was Hayden (King) and started asking about the Dockers. I guess it could have been worse, at least she didn't say their Stallion was getting more covers than him on radio. LOL FFS

Flanders · November 8

Not responding to your opening post Damo but I think the Vic and NSW group races need an overhaul. There are way too many black type races

DamienWyer · November 8

An overhaul is on the way but they tend to be political and not based in common-sense.

Black type is awarded to races like the Everest but that race is effectively an invitational.

There are too many Gr1's and several regions simply don't deserve the majority of the black type they have already.

Punters don't give a rat's, they just want large fields that give better returns to winners. Smaller fields have far too many odds on runners and as a result turnover softens.

The only time large numbers go to the races is around binge drinking events and the return for the Industry as a whole is miniscule.

DamienWyer · November 8

Flanders said:
Not responding to your opening post Damo but I think the Vic and NSW group races need an overhaul. There are way too many black type races

In respect to not responding, that is the problem in WA. You can't rock the boat by asking the bloody obvious and you certainly can't criticise even constructively as it is taken as a personal attack.

The joint is incestuous.

reloadwa · November 8

is that right, only the 1 booked for the plane? …. if that’s the case, brilliant! ????????????

Gilgamesh · November 8

DamienWyer said:
An overhaul is on the way but they tend to be political and not based in common-sense.

Black type is awarded to races like the Everest but that race is effectively an invitational.

There are too many Gr1's and several regions simply don't deserve the majority of the black type they have already.

Punters don't give a rat's, they just want large fields that give better returns to winners. Smaller fields have far too many odds on runners and as a result turnover softens.

The only time large numbers go to the races is around binge drinking events and the return for the Industry as a whole is miniscule.

I heard Michael Walker on Racing.com talking about the Everest and he made a point I didn't really think of that now The Everest is a Group 1 watch all the studs try to buy the slots so they can win it to make their next stallion, could become a very insular concept.

GLAMOUR · November 8

Things have changed,remember a few years back when Bob was at full strength,and yes cleaning everything up,but least other stables Adam Durrant,Simon Miller,Impressive Racing and a few other stables had horses to be competitive,and horses who brought people to the races,but really now we ain't got no super stars who create good racing here ,who even go east and win a big one,we lost our last good one here Amelia's Jewell,maybe With Bob's new dtock coming through and Grant Williams has something that will bring people back to the races.

GLAMOUR · November 8

reloadwa said:
is that right, only the 1 booked for the plane? …. if that’s the case, brilliant! ????????????

As with other years won't know untill plane arrives if the Waller,Cummings,
Waterhouse and other prominent stables send runners.

DamienWyer · November 8

My understanding is that 3 or 4 may make the trip but they are third raters here on the East Coast. Leading Trainers are always polite when asked about travelling to Perth, they are also polite when looking at yearling sales. It's good business. They just want clients.

DamienWyer · November 8

Gilgamesh said:

DamienWyer said:
An overhaul is on the way but they tend to be political and not based in common-sense.

Black type is awarded to races like the Everest but that race is effectively an invitational.

There are too many Gr1's and several regions simply don't deserve the majority of the black type they have already.

Punters don't give a rat's, they just want large fields that give better returns to winners. Smaller fields have far too many odds on runners and as a result turnover softens.

The only time large numbers go to the races is around binge drinking events and the return for the Industry as a whole is miniscule.

I heard Michael Walker on Racing.com talking about the Everest and he made a point I didn't really think of that now The Everest is a Group 1 watch all the studs try to buy the slots so they can win it to make their next stallion, could become a very insular concept.

I used to rule a line through any yearling in a catalogue that was of US descent, they are just rubbish here in Australia. Likewise I wouldn't send a mare to a first year golden Slipper winner without a long line of black type stallions behind him. Someone else can prove me wrong.

Races that are suddenly Gr1 are just a joke. An Industry joke. Next they will start taking turns in Gr1's like they do in other places around the World. Two potential Stallions avoiding each other etc

You can grade the Everest or the Quokka any way you like, they will be meaningless to anyone who breeds to race. They will produce types for the ring that will sell high and perform low.

Vincent_vega · November 8

GLAMOUR said:
Things have changed,remember a few years back when Bob was at full strength,and yes cleaning everything up,but least other stables Adam Durrant,Simon Miller,Impressive Racing and a few other stables had horses to be competitive,and horses who brought people to the races,but really now we ain't got no super stars who create good racing here ,who even go east and win a big one,we lost our last good one here Amelia's Jewell,maybe With Bob's new dtock coming through and Grant Williams has something that will bring people back to the races.

Was lucky enough to have some good horses and even scored a group 1 win along the way in the last 5 years. However, im not investing in horses any more. The concept is boring and racing horses here in perth is boring. No disrespect to the people that frequent the place but the “vantage” is the same faces week in week out (boring), and this is the sum of rwwa and perth racings race ownership efforts. Still have NFI what Owners Only does or is. There is zero innovation in racing here, less owners equals less money being put into the game. Im putting my money into holidays now, and enjoying it more.
Ps its a bit off topic but just wanted to address what you meant by bringing people to the races.

Flanders · November 8

DamienWyer said:

Flanders said:
Not responding to your opening post Damo but I think the Vic and NSW group races need an overhaul. There are way too many black type races
In respect to not responding, that is the problem in WA. You can't rock the boat by asking the bloody obvious and you certainly can't criticise even constructively as it is taken as a personal attack.

The joint is incestuous.

I was merely opening with "not responding to your post" so you didn't think I was responding to your post. I was making a separate point about black type.
If you want to make my post about you, then you do you.

Gilgamesh · November 8

They did get Zaaki along with Anabell and JMac over last year.

Tuvalu the best of the lot attracted to Railway - railway is tough the blue print has been laid of what is required to win it, an up and comer which as you say from an east stand point they have so many options worth so much money.

Overpass has been a blessing particularly that he has gone back east and run well, has to be a massive chance today.

But yes you go back and look at that last Winterbottom line up and did he beat a G1 field?? You have to say no.

The freak mare has come for the Quoka and gone back and done what she has done.

I'm just not sure what they can do - so much is asked of the horse flesh we have to stretch out accross the nation nearly 365 days a year now.

Talk the next spruik horse Baraquiel may come - hope it runs well.

Of the ones that do usually come it really doesnt look like Cummings, Waller or Neesham have anything to bring???

As mentioned time will tell.

DamienWyer · November 9

Overpass has hit top form since the Quokka in April 2023 prior to that he was clearly wanting in top grade. He races very well fresh and for that reason if he won today I think his connections would want to give him a break as there is so much on offer here for what would be close to his final year at top level in 2025. If he failed today at Flemington then he instantly would be off to the paddock. Either way I think a third Quokka is more a reality than another Winterbottom. Ultimately he wants someone to give him another crack at an Everest so maintaining winning form is crucial.

As far as the Railway goes, my question to the well informed source said a flat no. Nothing is being spoken about that you have heard of before. It's likely to be a WA field this year.

DamienWyer · November 9

Vincent_vega said:

GLAMOUR said:
Things have changed,remember a few years back when Bob was at full strength,and yes cleaning everything up,but least other stables Adam Durrant,Simon Miller,Impressive Racing and a few other stables had horses to be competitive,and horses who brought people to the races,but really now we ain't got no super stars who create good racing here ,who even go east and win a big one,we lost our last good one here Amelia's Jewell,maybe With Bob's new dtock coming through and Grant Williams has something that will bring people back to the races.

Was lucky enough to have some good horses and even scored a group 1 win along the way in the last 5 years. However, im not investing in horses any more. The concept is boring and racing horses here in perth is boring. No disrespect to the people that frequent the place but the “vantage” is the same faces week in week out (boring), and this is the sum of rwwa and perth racings race ownership efforts. Still have NFI what Owners Only does or is. There is zero innovation in racing here, less owners equals less money being put into the game. Im putting my money into holidays now, and enjoying it more.
Ps its a bit off topic but just wanted to address what you meant by bringing people to the races.

Bit saddened reading that. Winning a Gr1 must be a feeling that is hard to top.

Vincent_vega · November 9

DamienWyer said:

Vincent_vega said:

GLAMOUR said:
Things have changed,remember a few years back when Bob was at full strength,and yes cleaning everything up,but least other stables Adam Durrant,Simon Miller,Impressive Racing and a few other stables had horses to be competitive,and horses who brought people to the races,but really now we ain't got no super stars who create good racing here ,who even go east and win a big one,we lost our last good one here Amelia's Jewell,maybe With Bob's new dtock coming through and Grant Williams has something that will bring people back to the races.

Was lucky enough to have some good horses and even scored a group 1 win along the way in the last 5 years. However, im not investing in horses any more. The concept is boring and racing horses here in perth is boring. No disrespect to the people that frequent the place but the “vantage” is the same faces week in week out (boring), and this is the sum of rwwa and perth racings race ownership efforts. Still have NFI what Owners Only does or is. There is zero innovation in racing here, less owners equals less money being put into the game. Im putting my money into holidays now, and enjoying it more.
Ps its a bit off topic but just wanted to address what you meant by bringing people to the races.
Bit saddened reading that. Winning a Gr1 must be a feeling that is hard to top.

I think ive come to the realisation, after investing a heap of money, that lightning doest strike you twice.
I accept the fact that dumb luck had the biggest part to play in the scenario, not by ability to select a yearling. But if the general saturdays meetings were more fun, and it was not groundhog day at the vantage, i maybe wouldnt mind going again

DamienWyer · November 9

Vincent_vega said:

DamienWyer said:

Vincent_vega said:

GLAMOUR said:
Things have changed,remember a few years back when Bob was at full strength,and yes cleaning everything up,but least other stables Adam Durrant,Simon Miller,Impressive Racing and a few other stables had horses to be competitive,and horses who brought people to the races,but really now we ain't got no super stars who create good racing here ,who even go east and win a big one,we lost our last good one here Amelia's Jewell,maybe With Bob's new dtock coming through and Grant Williams has something that will bring people back to the races.

Was lucky enough to have some good horses and even scored a group 1 win along the way in the last 5 years. However, im not investing in horses any more. The concept is boring and racing horses here in perth is boring. No disrespect to the people that frequent the place but the “vantage” is the same faces week in week out (boring), and this is the sum of rwwa and perth racings race ownership efforts. Still have NFI what Owners Only does or is. There is zero innovation in racing here, less owners equals less money being put into the game. Im putting my money into holidays now, and enjoying it more.
Ps its a bit off topic but just wanted to address what you meant by bringing people to the races.
Bit saddened reading that. Winning a Gr1 must be a feeling that is hard to top.

I think ive come to the realisation, after investing a heap of money, that lightning doest strike you twice.
I accept the fact that dumb luck had the biggest part to play in the scenario, not by ability to select a yearling. But if the general saturdays meetings were more fun, and it was not groundhog day at the vantage, i maybe wouldnt mind going again

Can I ask which Gr 1 winner you owned ? I honestly can't remember reading that before

DamienWyer · November 9

DamienWyer said:
Overpass has hit top form since the Quokka in April 2023 prior to that he was clearly wanting in top grade. He races very well fresh and for that reason if he won today I think his connections would want to give him a break as there is so much on offer here for what would be close to his final year at top level in 2025. If he failed today at Flemington then he instantly would be off to the paddock. Either way I think a third Quokka is more a reality than another Winterbottom. Ultimately he wants someone to give him another crack at an Everest so maintaining winning form is crucial.

As far as the Railway goes, my question to the well informed source said a flat no. Nothing is being spoken about that you have heard of before. It's likely to be a WA field this year.

Can't see the point continuing this prep, he was the first horse beaten in the last 100M

Gilgamesh · November 10

They should be talking to Phil Stokes and trying to get him to bring Stretan Angel, 4yr old mare G1 form would look good besides its name, only 3 runs in, all runs have been very good.

Precision1 · November 13

Hadn’t logged on for a while and been missing a Damien Weir pile on of WA racing. Firstly any comment he makes needs to be viewed through the lense of a bitter twisted ex who’s been cheated on and left with nothing. They could get Winx, Black Caviar and Soyouthink here for the carnival and he’d have a cry about something.

From what I’ve heard there’s 10 horses coming, the ones for the weight for age races are genuine group 1 quality and of course the railway horses are your group 2 and 3 types. Horses with 53kg are what you need to win that race! I’m excited as I think they will all be great betting races.

And to pot Overpass off one run……would you have have put Via Sistina in the paddock after her Makybe Diva run then? Both second up flops. Why push on ay?

DamienWyer · November 14

Precision1 said:
Hadn’t logged on for a while and been missing a Damien Weir pile on of WA racing. Firstly any comment he makes needs to be viewed through the lense of a bitter twisted ex who’s been cheated on and left with nothing. They could get Winx, Black Caviar and Soyouthink here for the carnival and he’d have a cry about something.

From what I’ve heard there’s 10 horses coming, the ones for the weight for age races are genuine group 1 quality and of course the railway horses are your group 2 and 3 types. Horses with 53kg are what you need to win that race! I’m excited as I think they will all be great betting races.

And to pot Overpass off one run……would you have have put Via Sistina in the paddock after her Makybe Diva run then? Both second up flops. Why push on ay?

More pearls of wisdom.

DamienWyer · November 18

LADY LAGUNA

NUMERIAN (IRE)

PORT LOCKROY

MAHARBA

LIGHT INFANTRY MAN
(FR)

SOCKS NATION

OVERPASS

BELCLARE (NZ)

DEMOCRACY MANIFEST

ATTRITION

Those that made the flight

jum · November 19

DamienWyer said:
My understanding is that 3 or 4 may make the trip but they are third raters here on the East Coast.

Lady Laguna. GROUP 1 winner already. $2.5 million in Stakes

Numerian 3-time GROUP 2 winner. $3 million in stakes.

Light infantry Man. 5 times GROUP 1 placed with Royal Ascot GROUP 1 form.

Socks Nation. GROUP 1 winner already.

Overpass. GROUP 1 winner with $9 million is stakes

Belclare. 2-time GROUP 1 winner.

Democracy Manifest. GROUP 2 winner with a cult following.

Attrition. GROUP 1 winner.

Your understanding is a little off I believe. 6 of the 10 are already GROUP 1 winners.

:-?

DamienWyer · November 19

So how many of the three features will be taken out by this group. Four is you include the Perth Cup

spinking · November 19

IDamien it would seem that your trying to dissasociate yourself to your previous comments. Your statement above is really irrelevant to your original posts.. 6 group 1 winners amonst them . Where in your original posts do you metion anything about them winning any of the group one races here.

DamienWyer · November 19

spinking said:
IDamien it would seem that your trying to dissasociate yourself to your previous comments. Your statement above is really irrelevant to your original posts.. 6 group 1 winners amonst them . Where in your original posts do you metion anything about them winning any of the group one races here.

Information fed to me was a little inaccurate and the source was impeccable but none the less ill informed. Lets hope one of these superstars wins by a huge margin and everyone can giggle among themselves about how lucky they were to horse X run in Perth.

spinking · November 19

I’ll go the other way and hope all the big ones are won by our horses. and I think they can

thefalcon · November 20

name a couple, spink.

the railway is in 3 days.

spinking · November 20

Ok here you go Falcon

Nevills two (read todays paper)have to respect his judgment

Casino 17 =never won at the distance but came from 10 on the turn in the LEE STEERE to win that race +( the wizard Grant & Alana) say no more

Trix of the trade = similar prep to 2 years ago when he won the race. Similar prep last year 2 runs going into the mile (which he should have won very unlucky) drawn 8 this year instead of 1 so can be in the moving line coming into the corner. instead of boxed in on the fence.

Mojo Rythem.= Won the Peters again this year as he did last year and like Trix Of The trade last year very unlucky couldnt get a descent crack at them till the 100

Super Smink= for no other reason DM knows how to have a horse right for these big races though in sayin that the barrier may be of concern.

So there you go Falcon some value in there bring on Saturday will be a great days racing

thefalcon · November 20

yes spink it will be a great day...i'll be there around the bookies and over at the big bar.

now, the railway. i like light infantry man. why? for a number of reasons.

it bolted in the chester manifold 16 days ago with 58.5 and drops to 55.5. with excellent barrier.

it is a lightly raced european 6yo with only 19 starts AND trained by ciaron maher.

now the big point...james mcdonald making a very quick trip, he's back off to HK on saturday evening!!

@ $5 is good shopping imho.

spinking · November 20

Agree 100%falcon

G'day Punter!

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