Sunday Trials At Byford Face The ChopHarness & Greyhounds

JayJay

Decision time approaching soon about whether Sunday Trials at Byford will continue. Plan is to shift them to every 2nd Wednesday in rotation with Pinjarra.

"Consultation" period nearly over but the decision has probably or was probably already made.

Hobby trainers who work Monday to Friday may be being sold up the river by such a shift or outer country trainers who may have been able to travel on Sundays may also be affected. Apparently, a costs saving involved by reducing the number of trial dates at Byford. Is the Industry that broke that it can't afford Sunday trials?

Arapaho

Sunday, is the best time to conduct trials for all concerned.

As stated by JayJay it will make it so much harder for those that work  to attend if held midweek,not only that, the traffic on Sundays is far less then on any give work day,whether held Wednesday morning or evening you are going to run into peak hour traffic and this will be a problem for all concerned.

Most trainers,give most of their horses a day of on Sundays and that frees up time for them to attend trials with the horses that need to  trial, for whatever reason.

Surely, there must be other avenues that we can cost save in. 

The product is harness racing and it is this,that we must focus on,by giving it every opportunity to survive ,if not all these other little avenues that have been  created   on the back of it will also fold.

At worst may be put the fees up,now I know every one will jump up and down but every horse has to trial before racing so it is very important to make it as easy as possible for all participants to attend,

If  Sunday is abolished surely outer country club should be afforded the opportunity  to conduct trials at their venues if they are able to fund the trials themselves 

.

I for one,would rather pay a $100 to trial at a track close to me than pay $25 at a trak miles away use a $100 in fuel ,confront peak hour traffic,have my horse in a float for 2 to 3 hours plus considering time taken and wear and tear on vehicle it would make sense..

warrenrobinson

Poor management make poor decisions. What's the real reasoning trials have become unaffordable for RWWA? participants the lack of. Our industry continues to fall instead of growing and RWWA don't have capable management to fix the problem. The sooner a parliamentary inquiry is held Into RWWA the better'

JayJay

Very well said Arapaho, precisely on the money.

I think I first started calling for a Public Accounts Committee lead Parliamentary Inquiry about 4 years ago, about the same time that Tony Buti was pulling a large pineapple through the WA Football Commission.

No one is interested, the Government will steer clear of it leading into an election, the few opposition members from rural electorates became mildly interested but dropped off the case. There are no appetites for Parliamentary Inquiries whilst Quango's like RWWA (and many others) have media and publicity departments that operate like "Good News week". Racing Radio dare not be critical in any way about the product, it is like listening to Berlin Betty.

The "numbers" for Harness Racing (financial, participant, breeding) have become increasingly diabolical for years and years. Minister Whitby showed some enthusiasm for righting or at least stabilising the ship but I am not aware of Paul Papalia having any sort of hands on role. He may have, but there has been no public evidence.

I'll say it until I am up at Boot Hill. Shrinking the base (footprint) and further lowering participant numbers via short term cost savings and rationalisations will never ever increase turnover, it will never ever return the industry to financial viability  and it will only further entrench the power structures currently running the show. I fail to see what getting rid of Sunday trials at Byford will do for the long term health of the Industry. 

The final decisions surrounding the "Issues Paper" distributed by Cameron Brown cannot be far away from consideration and release by the RWWA Board. Will those decisions be released before or after the State Election. These are questions that the Shadow Minister should be asking but giving the paucity of members and the overwhelming Shadow Ministry Responsibilities of each, Harness may be a fair way down the pecking order.

savethegame

Might have to get Mick Murray out of retirement , when he was Minister for Sports ---, Paplia was Minister for Racing with Heart as big as caraway seed
There was to be no more trial's at Pinjarra, Harness Club so Mick took Paplia with him,--- Told the harness manager you will have trial's at Pinjarra thump on the table--trial's continued Pinjarra

warrenrobinson

What year did that happen.

warrenrobinson

Interesting good old GP some 20 years ago (Rob Bovell) got rid of trials saying they couldn't afford to run trials.

savethegame

warrenrobinson said:

What year did that happen.

Late 2018 -- 2019 thinking it was in Hamilton's era he finished Feb. 2019.

On Bovell G P. ( WATA )Said they were 3-4million in the red attributed to Country Harness hoping RWWA would pick up the tab around the implementation of RWWA, thought it may have been Shoe Shuffle for G P problems.?

warrenrobinson

The shoe shuffle continues.

savethegame

Do lights go up at Pinjarra end of January heard that at widgemooltha ? and trial's shifted to morning because stewards don't want to start shift at 4pm.

warrenrobinson

I did hear it was at the stewards request. Trials are a service to the industry and again the industry suffers due to poor management .The tail continues to wag the dog.

getthechange

I did hear that byford trials cost about $2500 to run each week - stewards - ambulance - caller etc

I also heard that the emerging trainers want to have Sundays off for recreation

stewards - mobile drivers - ambulance are in attendance at all race meetings so wouldn`t it be possible to conduct a couple of trials before or during race meetings - trial for horses stood down ,ODM  and unraced horses

Frog

That used to happen at GP Monday or Tuesdays back in a day.

warrenrobinson

Tuesday's up to 30 trials, more people attended than Friday at GP, we've come a long way.

Chariotsonfire

In excess of 5000 attended GP to see Mount Eden trial.

Arapaho

getthechange said:

I did hear that byford trials cost about $2500 to run each week - stewards - ambulance - caller etc

I also heard that the emerging trainers want to have Sundays off for recreation

stewards - mobile drivers - ambulance are in attendance at all race meetings so wouldn`t it be possible to conduct a couple of trials before or during race meetings - trial for horses stood down ,ODM  and unraced horses

The way things are headed, those emerging trainers will be able to have every day off, shortly

Markovina

getthechange said:

I did hear that byford trials cost about $2500 to run each week - stewards - ambulance - caller etc

I also heard that the emerging trainers want to have Sundays off for recreation

stewards - mobile drivers - ambulance are in attendance at all race meetings so wouldn`t it be possible to conduct a couple of trials before or during race meetings - trial for horses stood down ,ODM  and unraced horses

I dont blame the participants wanting Sunday off - even the crews who work in that blistering heat way up North , alot of them get Sunday off 

Bathurst , Leeton , Young they have them Monday night

Arapaho

Markovina said:

getthechange said:

I did hear that byford trials cost about $2500 to run each week - stewards - ambulance - caller etc

I also heard that the emerging trainers want to have Sundays off for recreation

stewards - mobile drivers - ambulance are in attendance at all race meetings so wouldn`t it be possible to conduct a couple of trials before or during race meetings - trial for horses stood down ,ODM  and unraced horses

I dont blame the participants wanting Sunday off - even the crews who work in that blistering heat way up North , alot of them get Sunday off 

Bathurst , Leeton , Young they have them Monday night

No-ones stopping them having Sundays off if they want too,

theres trials just down the road at Pinjarra on Wednesdays ,.

but as usual its all about them,if they dont want to then no-one should be able.to. 

Arapaho

Just on NSW trials,

Parkes,Dubbo,Maitland,Coolamon and Boken Hill to name a few trial on Sundays.

In fact theres a trial somewhere in NSW most days and good on them because its all about getting horses to the races.

Last month in NSW there was a trial or set of trials at 16 different tracks 45 times during that period compared to WA  total of a trial or set of trials at 7 tracks 16 times

Maybe we should ask them how they can afford all these trials.

JayJay

Self interest and greed have been the over riding sentiment amongst the "Ruling Class" of Harness Racing in WA for decades and decades. It, "Self Interest", has an enormous metrocentric power base and appears to have willing allies within RWWA and of course Gloucester Park. 

There has been various incarnations of 'Gordon Geckos" over the decades that have stomped all over the regional, hobbyist and part time base that our industry was built on. Getting rid of Sunday Trials at Byford so that a few complainants can have a sleep in is yet another example. One wonders who feeds their horses, does their yards or works the ones who are engaged for the Monday or Tuesday meetings. Training horses is a 7 day a week profession, just like milking cows, farming or bringing up kids. My training accounts don't state "Sunday is free" and nor should they.

Arapaho

Precisely.

Chopchop43

JayJay said:

Self interest and greed have been the over riding sentiment amongst the "Ruling Class" of Harness Racing in WA for decades and decades. It, "Self Interest", has an enormous metrocentric power base and appears to have willing allies within RWWA and of course Gloucester Park. 

There has been various incarnations of 'Gordon Geckos" over the decades that have stomped all over the regional, hobbyist and part time base that our industry was built on. Getting rid of Sunday Trials at Byford so that a few complainants can have a sleep in is yet another example. One wonders who feeds their horses, does their yards or works the ones who are engaged for the Monday or Tuesday meetings. Training horses is a 7 day a week profession, just like milking cows, farming or bringing up kids. My training accounts don't state "Sunday is free" and nor should they.

I think self interest is rife amongst alot in the industry and not just at the top end

JayJay

If they are fair dinkum,there will have to be an option to trial on the weekend.

Markovina

Talking of trials , good old Oz Trailor , Stewards Wrap NSW Drivers attire at official trials 

Drivers are reminded , and required to wear full race attire , including safety equipment and white driving  pants .

Jeans and tracksuit pants shall not be permitted .

warrenrobinson

Presentation is everything with the exception in WA, stewards(Barbara Scott) introduced dress code for driving in trials but when she left they didn't police it now it's back to a grubby dress code again and we wonder why we are where we are.  

warrenrobinson

RWWA don't have the capability to grow a industry and the industry will suffer.

Chopchop43

Correct me if im wrong but don't jockeys get away with wearing jeans etc in official trials ??

JayJay

There is a dress code for participants in general but it is not enforced. Jockeys (and trainers) also "get away" with wearing suit and ties to metro meetings and don't get away with rocking up in board shorts and sandals or walking into the course in their riding breeches and safety vests. 

In general terms, the presentation standards at the gallops put harness in the shade. Claims of wanting to be treated like professionals wear very thin when participants turn out for major metropolitan trophy presentations in tee shirts and others in the stabling area look like they have spent the night in a skip bin, and I'm not talking Collie or Kellerberrin where a more casual atmosphere exists. Of course, there are notable exceptions.

JayJay

Growth of the Industry is an interesting concept. One night at GP still sticks in my mind to this day, WA Cup Final, December 30th 1972 (referred to as the "1973 Cup"). It was the first "Heats and Final" version of the then Benson and Hedges Cup and the race stake jumped from $20,000 the year before (when Pyramus won it) to $50,000. Public interest was huge, it was properly promoted and marketed.

There was a huge crowd, you literally couldn't move, the bookies ring was frantic, queuing up for a beer, crawling home across a gridlocked causeway, a night made all the better when James Eden got up for Fred Snr's emotional final drive in a race and his first Cup win. It had everything that night, even if I did back the 4th placegetter.

At the time, the Perth Metro population was 760,000, public transport was abysmal and conservatively 20,000 plus paying punters rocked up. Fast forward to today with a metro population of 3 times that at over 2.1 million, a vastly more advanced public transport system and if a 1000 people, (many of whom are kids there for the fireworks and by definition non payers) turned out for a Cup worth 9 times as much at $450,000, the management would be doing handstands. If they got a dozen people sitting in the Ledger Stand even with the Italian Night promotion, they would pinch themselves. Back in 1972, there was no bells and whistles, bouncy castles hadn't been invented, it was simply a great handicapped, competitive product, well marketed and massively patronised.

Aha, I hear you say, your forgetting about phone betting apps from the couches and computers and so on, technology has killed crowds. I hear that flannel on a daily basis. Well, they bet on football and just about every week, new attendance records are set. They bet on the cricket and the MCG will be heaving on Boxing Morning, the "crowds" get off their couches and pack the joint. I don't buy that spin, if the product is good, the crowds will attend. they have mobile coverage in Busselton, Churchill Park will be packed on Boxing Night.

Why do they get the crowds? Because the product is good and it is well marketed. Good products don't sit on the shelves at Woolies or Coles, they sell. Woolies and Coles management grow their Businesses, they record annual growth and annual profit increases. And if they didn't, how long do you reckon the CEO's and Boards would last? How long would the shareholders put up with falling share prices, shrinking or non existent dividends and insolvent trading? 

If the CEO of the AFL or Cricket Australia oversaw a mass shrinkage of crowds or revenue, or if the stadiums that the games were played at were poorly maintained and falling to bits and unattractive to the Public, they would be replaced very quickly.

In retail terms, either our product is no good, or it is poorly marketed. Even those shoes that were once considered a social embarrassment, "Crocs", have with astute marketing become "cool" and fashionable.....some silly looking chunks of perishable synthetic rubber command prices of over $100 and you risk major tantrums from the kids and grandkids if you don't put them in their Christmas Stockings.

Growing the business appears to be par for the course everywhere except in our Industry. I don't imagine the CEO's of RWWA, Perth Racing or Gloucester Park have performance based contracts. Maybe that is a concept worth considering, an incentive to start growing the business, or maybe a broom needs to be swept through the management cupboard.

Chopchop43

JayJay said:

Growth of the Industry is an interesting concept. One night at GP still sticks in my mind to this day, WA Cup Final, December 30th 1972 (referred to as the "1973 Cup"). It was the first "Heats and Final" version of the then Benson and Hedges Cup and the race stake jumped from $20,000 the year before (when Pyramus won it) to $50,000. Public interest was huge, it was properly promoted and marketed.

There was a huge crowd, you literally couldn't move, the bookies ring was frantic, queuing up for a beer, crawling home across a gridlocked causeway, a night made all the better when James Eden got up for Fred Snr's emotional final drive in a race and his first Cup win. It had everything that night, even if I did back the 4th placegetter.

At the time, the Perth Metro population was 760,000, public transport was abysmal and conservatively 20,000 plus paying punters rocked up. Fast forward to today with a metro population of 3 times that at over 2.1 million, a vastly more advanced public transport system and if a 1000 people, (many of whom are kids there for the fireworks and by definition non payers) turned out for a Cup worth 9 times as much at $450,000, the management would be doing handstands. If they got a dozen people sitting in the Ledger Stand even with the Italian Night promotion, they would pinch themselves. Back in 1972, there was no bells and whistles, bouncy castles hadn't been invented, it was simply a great handicapped, competitive product, well marketed and massively patronised.

Aha, I hear you say, your forgetting about phone betting apps from the couches and computers and so on, technology has killed crowds. I hear that flannel on a daily basis. Well, they bet on football and just about every week, new attendance records are set. They bet on the cricket and the MCG will be heaving on Boxing Morning, the "crowds" get off their couches and pack the joint. I don't buy that spin, if the product is good, the crowds will attend. they have mobile coverage in Busselton, Churchill Park will be packed on Boxing Night.

Why do they get the crowds? Because the product is good and it is well marketed. Good products don't sit on the shelves at Woolies or Coles, they sell. Woolies and Coles management grow their Businesses, they record annual growth and annual profit increases. And if they didn't, how long do you reckon the CEO's and Boards would last? How long would the shareholders put up with falling share prices, shrinking or non existent dividends and insolvent trading? 

If the CEO of the AFL or Cricket Australia oversaw a mass shrinkage of crowds or revenue, or if the stadiums that the games were played at were poorly maintained and falling to bits and unattractive to the Public, they would be replaced very quickly.

In retail terms, either our product is no good, or it is poorly marketed. Even those shoes that were once considered a social embarrassment, "Crocs", have with astute marketing become "cool" and fashionable.....some silly looking chunks of perishable synthetic rubber command prices of over $100 and you risk major tantrums from the kids and grandkids if you don't put them in their Christmas Stockings.

Growing the business appears to be par for the course everywhere except in our Industry. I don't imagine the CEO's of RWWA, Perth Racing or Gloucester Park have performance based contracts. Maybe that is a concept worth considering, an incentive to start growing the business, or maybe a broom needs to be swept through the management cupboard.

so your saying the steep decline in attendances across the country since betting apps were introduced , and skyracing was readily available on your phone is just a giant coincidence??? We've had the discussion before when you've compared the AFL attendances to harness racing , it's not a fair comparison it would be like comparing the NFL to harness racing in America your talking the countries biggest sports, compared to a sport in its helcian days drew how many thousands ??? Why not compare harness racing to the gallops, your an avid participant in their forum have you not seen all the talk about struggling crowd numbers in there product as of late ??? Seems to be alot of discussion about it over on there forum so maybe we aren't the only ones struggling ? Maybe there is a bit of truth to the fact there isn't a need to go on course anymore just to have a bet hence the dwindling numbers. And before you point out the fact Churchill Park gets crowds , ive been there enough times with your horses to be able to say yes you are correct they do get a crowd , but that crowd seems to diminish the further the Busselton season goes on , maybe just maybe Busselton gets propped up by the holiday goers who decide to trek across the road from the caravan park since let's be honest there isn't a ton to do on a balmy evening in Busselton, and once those holiday goers pack the car up and head home Busselton indeed starts to become like every other track in the country , a little bit of a ghost town

sonny

Hi Chop, So what is the answer and how does one address the problem for all codes of racing...?? or do we put our hands up and say , it is what it is??