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Magic Million Auctioneers

East Coast Racing
Watching the Magic Millions Auction live . Geez the Chief Auctioneers  go out of their way to belittle any bidder who asks if they can bid up by $5000 or $10,000 bids. Entitled Pricks must think everybody sitting in bidding ring  is Packer Wealthy ffs .
+1 -1

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  • ArapahoArapaho    284 posts
    The auctioneers selling Winx foal to Debbie Kepitis only took million dollar bids,Debbie paid a million dollars more than what the under bidder ,bid (absolute joke) pretty sure he was only there to kick the price up anyhow .
    Watching these auctions the old coke machine puts in a few bids.
    They only need one person to be bidding,,they then run them up to the reserve price and if that person puts in a bid over the reserve ,Bang Sold. 

    savethegame, Manchild likes this post.

  • ArapahoArapaho    284 posts
    That is why you see ,example lot ??? passed in $490000 Reserve $500000,
    Surely being so close you would take the $490000
    but they dont,
    Reason why the $490000 either the auctioneers or the vendors bid.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    Yearling Sales....one of the great rackets of all time orchestrated by the shadiest of the shady.

    Arapaho, Bushbookie, savethegame, JimmyPop likes this post.

  • Vincent_vegaVincent_vega    584 posts
    edited January 10
    Looking at the sale prices and how many horses at one sale, its a complete and utter fugazi. So many horses above 400k, fark me. Gotta be monopoly money.
  • loose_gooseloose_goose    2,082 posts
    JayJay said:

    Yearling Sales....one of the great rackets of all time orchestrated by the shadiest of the shady.

    I hate the auctioneers at fund raisers that do the **** bids, but joke it off, because no one has the balls to call them out. 
  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,091 posts
    Part of my business experience has included auctioneering and my rule has always been that if there is a reserve price then that is where we start. Saves valuable time and messing about.

    JimmyPop likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,785 posts
    Having attended a few Magic Millions yearling sales, if say a Lot reaches just below the reserve, say $24,000 when the reserve was $25,000 as was the case for me once, the Auctioneer will usually turn to get the nod so that the Vendor knows it is 'real money' and then they can throw it on the market to see if that drives out further bids. 

    If the reserve is firm, the Auctioneer will ask the bidder that if they meet the reserve with just one more bid, in this example I would have been asked if I would agree to bid $25,000 and no further bids would be taken and the hammer would fall. The bidder can take the chance that having passed in the Lot, that the Vendor can then decide to take the yearling home and doesn't have to entertain any further talks. If you don't take the Auctioneer's request for the $25,000 bid, you have no right to expect the Vendor to take that same $25,000 back at the box as you already had your chance in the ring. 

    Magic Millions want to sell the Lot to achieve a higher clearance rate, but at that point it becomes a sale by private treaty and the Vendor could say that although the reserve was $25,000 in this example, they actually quietly hoped for $50,000 so they are going to race the yearling themselves with friends.

    If none of that pre exists, that there was no request from the Auctioneer to the Vendor at the back of the selling box, and the Lot gets passed in slightly below the reserve, then it is safe to assume that any real bids ran out long before they got to the reserve if there were any at all.

    Obviously another tactic is to declare the Lot unreserved, or declare that a Lot has reached it's reserve and it 'sells today' or 'on the market' and largely that is another effort to invigorate the bidders into a frenzy of action to achieve a huge sale price. 

    The action at an Inglis Sale is slightly different in that they make out like the hammer is about to fall, raising it above the Auctioneers head, then pause and declare that it has failed to meet reserve. 

    Just as a footnote, when I used to buy in Perth, I would always ask a Vendor what they thought as a reserve and if that was in line with my thoughts and clients budget, it remained firmly in focus. However if a Vendor wanted ridiculous money, I would watch on and see where the bidding went, maybe even throwing in a late bid around my expectations but then let it go. I always asked the client what they wanted to stop bidding at, then I asked for clear instructions that if a Lot was a $100,000 budget and I was on the wrong leg and had to go to $102,500 or higher, just to be crystal clear, was I stopping say within $10k over ?? I never bought a horse in Perth on speculation, it was always on instruction with clear guidelines around price. 


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  • BushbookieBushbookie    300 posts
    Thanks for that Damo , very very very interesting view to a complete novice of auctioneering at yearling sales .Christ very very close to be a ponzi scam ffs for beginners .
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,785 posts

    Looking at the sale prices and how many horses at one sale, its a complete and utter fugazi. So many horses above 400k, **** me. Gotta be monopoly money.

    Syndicators and large stables spending other people's money in advance. Sure they have to on sell the yearlings but they believe they have sufficient databases that will eventually cover the purchase plus add on costs. 

    You know it's a nervous time when you see share advertising months after a sale. 

    Both selling houses provide finance to approved clients and I have heard  more than one story of accounts running from one sale almost to another, in some cases running over and that person being suspended from purchasing until the account is cleared. Finance interest in these instances bites hard. Some major stables here in the East have self inflicted in trying to stay relevant when they just don't have huge clients with open chequebooks.

    I once had a spirited discussion in the back of the Perth Magic Millions bus going around to Studs to view yearlings, essentially I was educated by the young Trainer who was well known but not in a financial position to simply buy whatever he wanted. What the huge gamble for him was what would need to happen in the weeks following the sale with stock he had signed for but yet to fill shares. It is a genuine worry for a young Trainer, albeit gambling on a different level with no hope of a payout other than getting square. Then waiting to see if the stock can run. If they can get a profile through winners on the track, they have a slim hope of attracting the interest of someone willing to give them a chance. 

    The Catch 22 of it all, is that if they don't buy stock, they have no debt, but also have no clients. Run a small yard with whatever you can pick up cheaply at a sale and hope that one or two of them in the yard can cover the purchases to keep you ticking over as a business. 

    In WA you currently have the emergence of a Goliath in the Williams Racing stable (Perth MM 2024 5 Lots for $900k, 2023 7 Lots for $1.03M) . I tried a couple of times to get a horse in there, but it was during me old mates tenure, there simply wasn't room between him and Elio. Now that yard has a more diverse group of Owners and simply knows no boundary on what it can purchase as everything they touch turns to Saturday winners and better. 

    Add to this the solid Parnham yard (2024 16 Lots for $1.322M total, 2023 18 Lots for $1.977 total incl with clients)  Dan Morton has been active in the last couple of years (2024 11 Lots for $880k 202312 Lots for $880k) and the emergence of the Fernie's (2024 12 Lots for $985k, 2023 7 Lots for $492k). 

    So once you remove what you might regard as desirable stock, it starts to get tough for young Trainers and first time Owners. Pickings are slender.

    If I can add, when your at this end of the purchasing market, you hands down won't have independent advice in bloodstock and Vet checking, highly likely that you will have to do your own marketing and selling of shares and I'm sure I have missed something else.

    It's rough.

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  • RexRex    402 posts
    I have a share in 2 with Grant and Alana(an eyebrow in each) and find them very switched on. Feedback is good and very professional.

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  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,091 posts
    Very informative Damien
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,966 posts
      Studs---- Also Acting as Agents for Private Breeders-- Trainers---Agents--- So many different sharks, who inflict different size bites. ---Syndicators are more gummy shark types down to offering less then 1 percent shares with. one off payment available... 

    The frenzy that Nathan Tinkler caused in 2008  couple days before  sale mentioned he intended to spend  20 million, as it turned out he purchased 58 yearling s for 18.5 million av. around 320 k, there was no inside runs for trainers
    .Takes trainers quite a few years, based on there racecourse success rate to organise rolllie backs .with certain Studs.,bypassing agents..

    Without going too deep,  Traner approached Breeder, who was friend of mine, said he was interested in his filly. inquired what he wanted he said 300k. The Trainer  said  you are kidding the market is down he would be interested at 180-220k tops,while the breeder said she would be going home then ,this was couple days before she went in,-----

    The sale was way down,about  an hour before she went in,Trainer came back saying you can see how down the market is, but i will buy her for 300k..but you deposit  30k, in my bank account within  30 days of sale, deal done..,

    There was classic at Sydney easter sale horse was breed to be top shelf, anyone  with a clue  seen it had the worst sickle hocks,anyway reserve was 250k. hoping his breeding would get him there. Inglis & stud who were acting as agent took him to 230k. then stopped was passed in they backed tracked looking for legimate bidder, he was fronted his bid being 100k. and was he interested  in  negotiating a  price, his reply only put a bid to experience a bid. the horse never raced.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,295 posts
    bloody hell we are babes in the woods....come in spinner.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,785 posts

    Very informative Damien

    Thanks Slip, there was a time for the last few years that I would not have made these comments as I was continuously lambasted for saying what I believed to be the case with purchasing in WA. 

    As I'm not involved anymore, the damage is meaningless. 

    My motive was to those who feel like they are hard up against the 'machine'. If it is any comfort, every year there are one or two horses that get past all of the experts and those idiots who pick up a catalogue as they walk in the front door.

    You are simply buying a raffle ticket blind, if you at most have a yearling walked looking at what you believe is good conformation and it is within your tight fisted budget.

    If you believe information provided on site about the health or prospects of a particular yearling and that information was given freely and at no cost, then let me tell all who are reading this, that information is worthless.

    You should be using filters on every aspect of a potential purchase. Leave nothing to chance. If you ask for x-ray reports, simply don't accept that the yearlings films are good, no issues. That simply is not the case. Almost every horse has some peculiar aspect to his or hers films. They all have conformation issues that need to be noted, some can be worked with, others are an indicator that they will struggle. 

    Use a Vet not retained by your Trainer preferably in complete independence at a fee. if you can't afford to do this for every yearling you shortlist, you shouldn't be buying horses.

    Be careful buying yearlings that are too big. That is the one thing I wished I had been more harsh on myself. They can be big but they must be athletic. 

    Don't break any of your own rules. It's like paying up for gut shots in Poker, it almost never pays off. I was told that little gem 20 years ago by someone who had bought and sold hundreds and he was right then and still correct today.

    Just because a yearling is entitled to a bonus scheme means nothing in real terms. You have to win races to win bonuses, more than half of feature races are won by Interstate Stallions. So just buy winners, the money will come if they are any good. 

    You may never have bought or owned a Saturday winner of an Open race or Stakes Race, but you won't win those sort of races buying breeds and types that would on their best day, struggle to win a midweek in town.

    Finally, if you think that the yearling  in front of you is the right one, then bid. It may surprise with the hammer falling at less than you thought. Just remember there are many opportunities and you don't have to buy or compromise. 

    Good luck at the Perth sales. I'm travelling on a photographic project for two months from the last week of January. So I will be playing catch up on results only. 

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  • Vincent_vegaVincent_vega    584 posts
    edited January 13
    Great scam i head was directors of a large commercial syndicate bought a couple horses at a weanling sale and then put them thru the yearling sales and bought them back for profit. And why wouldn't you, you are not paying the yearling purchase price, the mug owners buying shares are. The perfect scam and a pinhook thst would never ever lose. Just another way to do your a$$ buying into a syndicate.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,966 posts
    Feel sorry for the harness industry syndication isn't viable but what is the longevity of the animal amount starts in individual campaigns some race for up to ten years.

    Syndication has saved the gallops,

    Early eighties.
    NSW. Corporate Affairs Department decided that selling shares in horses contravened the Companies Act which
    virtually brought halt to all part ownership and syndication of racehorses for more than 12 months back when Harry Lawton was kingpin of Syndication.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,785 posts
    MM Gold Coast declined again this year. Granted they did $206M gross, it's down from $225M four years ago and getting smaller each year with declining clearance rates as well. 

    Be interesting to see how Perth performs in a few weeks. Perth has been steady growth in the last three years, a direct reversal of what has been happening on the Gold Coast. 
  • ManchildManchild    777 posts
    Great topic, Thanks to all of you . 

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