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GP
Race 1-   Storyteller,  Mister Macedon,  Dardy Boy,  Travelban
Race 2-   Insta Gator,  Secret Reaction,  Lamandier,  Ideal Tomado
Race 3-   Waverider,  Rock Artist,  Rock Me Over,  Montana Glory
Race 4-   Jackie Daniels,  Freyja,  Unlucky,  Princess Katie
Race 5-   Swingband,  Lavra Joe,  Machnificent,  Goodfellaz
Race 6-   Mister Montblanc,  My Ultimate Chevron,  Carrera Mach,  Machlani
Race 7-   Franklin Delano,  Regal Cheval,  Feeling Aces,  Joey James
Race 8-   Hillview Bondi,  Cordero,  Ragazzo Mach,  Hoppys Way

Busselton
R1- Pushbutton Rock
R2- State My Case
R3- Remarkable Rock
R4- Bet On The River
R5- Motor On Lilly
R6- The Whizzer
R7- Jackpot Joe
 
+1 -1

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Comments

  • sonnysonny    1,302 posts
    Where are Gilga and Marko ???
  • loose_gooseloose_goose    2,082 posts
    Noticed P.Anderson at Busselton, so got my curiosity working, went looking, he & Barry Howlett not sighted at Albany thus far this season, when have always been regulars. Also first meeting there that M.Young not attending this season, where he has dominated. 

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    1,302 posts
    my 3 bets for to night.. G.P r3n2...r6n2... Busso r2n2.. Good Punting all

    cisco, VillageKid likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    262 posts
    You would go a long way to beat the  drive by Cory Peterson on Mikipelo last night at Busselton 15/10 worth the watch.

    JayJay, VillageKid, LightningJake likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,949 posts
    Results galore at both venues. Only 3 favourites out of 15 races.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    Trend continues, $9.00 average win SP at Gloucester Park, just two in the red, $4.20 at Busso just the one in the red. 54 races now run, average win SP is $6.80. Time to dust off the satchel Ross.
    :D

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    643 posts
    Is the racing more competitive or is that a figment of my imagination?

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • TimmyBeeTimmyBee    22 posts

    Results galore at both venues. Only 3 favourites out of 15 races.

    Praise the lord

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,949 posts
    JayJay said:

    Trend continues, $9.00 average win SP at Gloucester Park, just two in the red, $4.20 at Busso just the one in the red. 54 races now run, average win SP is $6.80. Time to dust off the satchel Ross.
    :D

    Found it in a wardrobe at my Daughter's place the other day. Still in very good condition but can't say the same for the owner.

    VillageKid, JayJay, jum likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    262 posts
    I think your imagination is spot on Abby with one exception Regal Cheval last night.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • JasperJasper    56 posts
    I have attended two Busselton meetings and haven’t been impressed with the racing. Numerous horses galloping, false/poor starts, the odd driver tipped out, one horse threw itself down twice in front of the crowd last night and was scratched, fields spread out over large distances, a plethora of novice drivers being used for a standing start meeting on a small track doesn’t seem to make sense, audible crowd responses to incidents evident, horse floats parked in adjoining streets etc.
    If this is the norm I can’t help but wonder how long this carnival will last. I suspect that many of the horses are unsuited or inexperienced when it comes to standing starts and that is probably the reason for the poor standard of racing, that and the size of the track. I am a big fan of country racing normally having been to most tracks in the last year but haven’t been impressed at all with Busselton so far. Came away from both the meetings feeling this is not good for the sport (or the horses that participate). Hopefully the next meeting will see some improvement but I doubt that I will be going back there.

    TimmyBee, Chopchop43, Pinballwizard likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    262 posts
    We are all allowed to post our opinion but opinions are worthless without facts and the facts state that reducing the footprint has never grown the industry FACT.
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts

    We are all allowed to post our opinion but opinions are worthless without facts and the facts state that reducing the footprint has never grown the industry FACT.


    qlds harness racing figures have shown that just isn't the case. Fact

    TimmyBee likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    643 posts

    We are all allowed to post our opinion but opinions are worthless without facts and the facts state that reducing the footprint has never grown the industry FACT.


    qlds harness racing figures have shown that just isn't the case. Fact
    Why did victoria close a number of tracks in mid 2000s then re-open them?

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    We are all allowed to post our opinion but opinions are worthless without facts and the facts state that reducing the footprint has never grown the industry FACT.


    qlds harness racing figures have shown that just isn't the case. Fact
    Why did victoria close a number of tracks in mid 2000s then re-open them?


    ever heard of the old saying sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back in order to go forward, proof is in the pudding in qlds
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    Also Vic probably isn't the best example of a state heading in the right direction with harness racing

    cisco likes this post.

  • ciscocisco    815 posts
    You can say that again Chopchop!! We are cactus!!
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    cisco said:

    You can say that again Chopchop!! We are cactus!!


    it's honestly sad to say it , got a soft spot for Victorian harness racing, was lucky enough to be there for blacks a fakes hunter cup win off 30 metres at the Valley, a memory that will always stick with me. Unfortunately I don't think Victoria is an orphan when it comes to the decline in the harness racing product
  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    262 posts
    Queensland 2003, 495 trainers, 384 drivers, 2023, 251 trainers, 145 drivers and falling facts don't lie.
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    Your taking facts with a period of over 20 years difference all states would of had a decline of participants, why don't we look at the difference in the past 5 years see if that shows an increase, the facts and figures I've presented before show that qlds is very much heading in the right direction but you've just gone and hand picked completely irrelevant stat's to back up your argument , which when you says Facts matter , well facts can.always be misleading without the correct context

    Pinballwizard likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    Statistics on individual state performance (licensed participants, foaling numbers and all other indicators of Industry health) used to be freely available, in both year books and HRA Annual reports. They are now no longer freely available. I don't know why.

    The national website also used to publish individual state statistics before reducing that to just an all inclusive "National Figure" which gives no indication of state trends. To get any sort of "health check"on where the Industry is at on a state by state basis requires exhaustive research. There is little doubt that Australia Wide, and state wide, the numbers of licensed trainers and drivers continue to fall. The RWWA Industry Status Report, which is running some 3 months late (and increasing), will almost certainly show a continuation of trend form 2020 to 2024 where the number of licensed "trainer/drivers" has fallen from 253 to 218. They also no longer publish individual trainer numbers and individual driver numbers, or their classifications, which somewhat muddies the water.

    Queensland as a case study is a very unique read, in terms of something cataclysmic (not familiar with what happened) occurring to the industry over a sustained period of time where the "footprint" across the state has all but disappeared.

    In 1967, there were 14 clubs, some large, some tiny, spread across the state: (Meeting numbers in brackets).
    Ayr (1), Cairns (32), Charters Towers (51), Dalby (1), Downs (22), Gold Coast/Southport (60), Innisfail (36), Ipswich (56), Mackay (28),  Maryborough (56), Redcliffe (61), Rocklea (58), Townsville (15) and Warwick (18).  Total Meetings 495.

    By 1978, down to 11 clubs (Ayr, Dalby and Maryborough gone). Albion Park (55), Cairns (47), Charters Towers (43), Downs (10), Gold coast (51), Innisfail (40), Ipswich (31), Mackay (48), Redcliffe (51), Rocklea (59), Townsville (51) and West Moreton (formerly Ipswich) (26).
    Total Meetings 512.

    By 2018, down to 4 tracks and 274 meetings, and now just the three tracks, Albion Park (1000m) two times a week, Redcliffe (800m triangle)three times a week, for general stakes brackets of around $6k per race twice a week, $9k per race three times a week and a minimum $14.5k per race once a week on a Saturday Night plus features of course, and Marburg  (700m) (which races periodically for about $4,000 a race about (it seems) 10 times a year)

    Financial wise, in the year before Covid, 2019/20, product revenue for harness (including all sources, corporates, turnover tax etc) was 13.3 billion. Like all jurisdictions and codes, it took off due to COVID and in 2020/21 it was 18.9 billion, but in the last financial year of 2023/24, it was down to $16.7 billion in line with everywhere else.

    Just an opinion but the "three track model" has little appeal to me, I don't believe rationalisation has or will achieve anything in WA, in the same way as closing down country footy leagues and clubs is counter productive to the future of Aussie Rules. If you don't like Busselton or wherever, don't go, plenty do. If you don't like the style of racing, go elsewhere and if you don't want community involvement, stay on the couch. Anyway, to each his own, wont bother me for a whole lot longer but it might bother younger aspiring participants seeking to establish themselves...but then again, it might not.


  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    From what I gather qld was actually going to race with 4 tracks , losing gold coast wasn't an industry decision. As for what appeals and doesn't appeal, it should be more about what we can afford as an Industry and based on a 46 million annual loss we can't afford anything even if we raced for no prize money

    As for the cataclysmic event that your referring to over in qld , I think it was a case of the industry realised they couldn't sustain the industry with the sized foot print it had so they made the bold decision to reduce it and now the industry seems to be heading in the right direction
  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    And where does the hugely overwhelming majority of the 46 million shortfall emanate from? It ain't Busselton, and it ain't Narrogin or Wagin.

    LightningJake, jum likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    JayJay said:

    And where does the hugely overwhelming majority of the 46 million shortfall emanate from? It ain't Busselton, and it ain't Narrogin or Wagin.


    well I think you'd bunch that into 'country' racing which is indeed running at a loss the whole industry is running at a loss

    TimmyBee likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    edited January 12
    All codes are running at a loss, all are "subsidised" by all other forms of sports betting etc. It is the degree of subsidisation that is the point and harness is clearly the most heavily subsidised.

    But the comparative losses for Busselton compared to Gloucester Park are chalk and cheese. 

    GP in FY 2023 returned less than 38 cents in the dollar, Busselton 58 cents in the dollar, as stated many, many times previously on a revenue generated versus prizemoney paid basis. These are RWWA figures but some either cannot or will not accept these facts, whatever 'context" you want to put them in. 

    People can believe whatever they want to believe, alternate facts, propaganda, call it what you like but $6,153,833 generated versus $15,188,250 paid out for FY 2023  Gloucester Park Friday Night meetings (and it has gotten a lot worse since then)  is reality, not opinion.
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    305 posts
    JayJay said:

    All codes are running at a loss, all are "subsidised" by all other forms of sports betting etc. It is the degree of subsidisation that is the point and harness is clearly the most heavily subsidised.

    But the comparative losses for Busselton compared to Gloucester Park are chalk and cheese. 

    GP in FY 2023 returned less than 38 cents in the dollar, Busselton 58 cents in the dollar, as stated many, many times previously on a revenue generated versus prizemoney paid basis. These are RWWA figures but some either cannot or will not accept these facts, whatever 'context" you want to put them in. 

    People can believe whatever they want to believe, alternate facts, propaganda, call it what you like but $6,153,833 generated versus $15,188,250 paid out for FY 2023  Gloucester Park Friday Night meetings (and it has gotten a lot worse since then)  is reality, not opinion.

    I don't think anyones doubting the fact that gp is running at a massive loss, but so is country racing , and the fact remains we need a metro track and gp for the time being is that track , for the pool of horses we have we have too many tracks Fact !!! Rationalisation has worked over in qld proving that going backwards to go forward is a method that can work because continuing to do what we are doing isn't working , and that applys for both racing at gp and in the country. Covid times proved that you can centralise all meetings around the high race horse population areas, program meetings to accommodate the lesser class horses and the code can still run no worse than it is at the moment.
  • sonnysonny    1,302 posts
    I remember Darren Binskin driving his first winner at Rockhampton in the late 70s .. I think it was Eva Thor , Paleface Adios was in the race also. .I dont remember them racing there since the 2000s..
  • JayJayJayJay    8,085 posts
    Rockhampton, that's another one that I missed off the list of Queensland tracks that disappeared, it held 51 meetings in 1978 on the 800m circuit.

    You piqued my interest when you mentioned grand mare Eva Thor and Paleface in the same sentence, as I was fairly sure there was a big age difference.....and there was, some 6 years...but I forget about just how durable the great champ was.

    And your memory Sonny, is spot on, June 30th, 1979 at Rockhampton, the "Capricornia Mile" worth $10,000 and the 4yo Eva Thor wins going 2.2.6 beating the 10yo Paleface with Michael Frost back in 3rd. And Darren Binskin drove Eva in place of John Binskin .

    However, it wasn't his first win, he drove Eva to win at Gosford on December 7th, 1978, the 4yo "Championship" worth $5,000.

    She was a grand mare Eva, beautifully bred (Thor Hanover from a Stormyway mare) and going against the trend, she was sold and exported to NZ after a couple of foals in Australia but never left anything of note. As a 4 year old, she won almost $44,000 in stakes in a single season, a huge return for a mare back then..

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  • sonnysonny    1,302 posts
    Hi JJ, I checked Johnny Tapps podcast on Darren.. It was his first Mobile win.. We grew up together Bankstown and Fairfield rivalry. I am 8 years older than him..Great podcast 

    JayJay likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,085 posts
    sonny said:

    I remember Darren Binskin driving his first winner at Rockhampton in the late 70s .. I think it was Eva Thor , Paleface Adios was in the race also. .I dont remember them racing there since the 2000s..

    I can remember Darren Binskin many many years ago , one Sat night at Newcastle , a few words were exchanged with Les Koslin - he was that local wonder trainer , use to work former broken down pacers on the beach with great results 

    Any how Binskin and Koslin went right  on with it , and it ended up on the grass them both having a wrestling contest , it was in the stewards report ( both got suspended ) for having a wrestling contest on the grass - hah - it brought trotting into disrepute the stewards said - hah
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