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Is this really Good for the Racing Industry or the Breeding Industry?

RIORIO    14,344 posts
edited June 2014 Breeding
I'm just posing the question..

At first read it appears a hand out for the elite few that breed with black type mares, or really well performed mares..The rest of the WA breeding industry can go and die...

To me it appears to be a luxury tax imposed on all those who are doing their best so that the elite few at the top of the pile, can afford to breed even more..... Or can someone explain to me how this is an incentive to breed here instead of buying east coast bred horses, bred to east coast based stallions??



  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    Does the Mare have to be served by a Stallion standing in WA ?
  • RIORIO    14,344 posts
    edited June 2014
    It appears that way to me and that seems to be the fly in the ointment..if you have a black type mare or Listed race winning mare, which high performing stallion currently standing in WA would you send her too???

    Oh and if the stallions start to perform what usually happens to them?? re Henny Hughes recently..And absolutely no issue that he was moved on.. May be a once in a life time opportunity to make a few bucks.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,329 posts
    So Stallion owners will partly fund the scheme and if your 2yo or 3yo can win on a Saturday, then happy days. So will this be notified at a sales level, which stallions are fully paid up ? Will it impact on the poor sales performers if they do ?

    As far as WA Group winning mares such as Magnifisio going to stud and getting $15,000 as a result, that amount of money would only have an interest for those breeders who retain stock and don't sell. Those couple who may have a group or listed winner for half payment, will be on the whole, throwing away far more in the sales ring compared to those who wish to maximise their commercial mare by going to a well mated commercial stallion that can get a quality horse rather than the promise of a short term cash grab and breeding to a lessor stallion.

    Anyone asking for my opinion will be told of commercial reality and not wasting a season for $7,500 or $15,000.
  • PandoraPandora    225 posts
    Who makes up the Racing Operations Committee at RWWA
  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    On the contrary - I tend to cover them here first year while ironing out any cobwebs.
    Beats spending a fortune on transport and e/s agistment rates only to find their difficult breeders - or the bull is a difficult breeder !!! (Starspangled.................).
    If someone else is going to pay the service fee for my black type mare - even better !

    As for which bull - well the most expensive one obviously :)

    As for "commerciality" - well the whole plan is to make a better business case for local studs to source more "commercial" (expensive) bulls, knowing they're going to get the financial return.
  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    However.................. I did not realise until today that the extra WestSpeed was for Saturday / Prime winners only.
    Would prefer to have seen that spread over all races, at say 50% bonus bonus, rather than 100% on "prime" ONLY.

    Tucool, TheFunkster likes this post.

  • AquanitaAquanita    566 posts
    Pandora said:

    Who makes up the Racing Operations Committee at RWWA

    from the 2013 Annual Report:

    Robert Pearson chairman
    Ross Cooper deputy chairman
    Gary Gliddon
    Prof John Yovich
    Jefferey Ovens (ex officio)
    Richard Burt
  • TucoolTucool    126 posts
    unfortunaley most who breed do not get a look in....... most of racing are battlers. 

    joffa likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    i can only see it as a move in the right direction to improve the quality of the fields on a saturday
  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    Tucool said:

    unfortunaley most who breed do not get a look in....... most of racing are battlers. 

    Re the breeding payment - it's a handful of horses a year that would even possibly be eligible for it.
    At most couldn't cost $100k a year.

    As for the racing bonus - well that's actually playing in to the battlers hands as it is the locally bred, cheaper (battlers) horses that will more regularly be eligible for it.
    Just need to be good enough to win a Saturday.
  • RIORIO    14,344 posts

    The last sentence is the critical one.. And then of course their stallion has to be nominated as a premium stallion and they have to pay up to the scheme.. Or is that included in the normal Westspeed payment??? will check that.

    The $100k/year is the problem..it will be returned to a handful of breeders and have little to no impact on the financial position of those within the industry.. $100k for me is very little. I'd rather hear that it was going to inject about 2mil into the system for owners.. Little impact and next to no impact for the smaller owner/breeders IMO.

    And 100k spread amongst a handful of top of the town owners is probably not enough to encourage them to use our local stallions over what is on offer over east.

  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    We've got numerous black type mares.
    We're not top of the town owners.
    And it would encourage me, yes.

    Sorted ! :)

    TheFunkster likes this post.

  • joffajoffa    122 posts
    On ya TIV,i got f-all black type mares but could do with that extra cash. :))
  • RIORIO    14,344 posts
    Tivers said:

    We've got numerous black type mares.

    We're not top of the town owners.

    And it would encourage me, yes.

    Sorted ! :)

    Would it????? I'll read it again and see if I get a better feel for it.. Just seemed to be targeted at a real minority at the top of the pile..

    Cos your such a good bloke, I'll take your word for it..

    In all seriousness that is actually why I posted the thread. I didn't clearly understand who it would benefit, and saw it as no benefit to me and my speedy squib of a mare and had no idea of what type of stallion would fit the bill of being a better producer than so many of the better performed stallions on the east coast.

    If I was seriously going to buy a horse that I expected to be Saturday competitive I would buy an east coast sired one. If I wanted one that hopefully would produce a Saturday runner i'd stay local and hope to get the lucky one..

    I'm going to do a little bit of research on where the Sires of the winners over the past 10 or so Saturday meetings stand.. I reckon the majority will be WA based sires..

  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    Not her first season, but Impressive Jeuney is going to War Chant this season, so yes.
    And we don't get the $15k !!! :(

    Can guarantee you that WestSpeed bonuses are a major attraction to racing WA "bred" horses.
    You just can't win anywhere near the $ with E/s / non eligible horses - to the point that we really try to avoid them (breed our own from e/s sires though, yes).
  • joffajoffa    122 posts
    hey Tiv can ya get me a deal on universal ruler serve or should i just buy i one on friday or sunday at sale?
  • TiversTivers    7,528 posts
    I've emailed you.
    If you're listed address isn't valid - let me know.
  • fefe    16 posts
    Just checking the stallions standing here And there is only 36 nominated vs the 67 from last year. I know cut off for nomination was on the 30th June. Is this "normal"? Do studs tend to do late returns and just cover the late fee?
  • joffajoffa    122 posts

    not sure whats going on there but westbury in pinjarra has 2 new ones this year ADMIRATION and SMUG so dont know why that is the case.maybe sales results.Breeding in W.A isnt in the best position at the moment and a lot of stallions service fees are a lot higher than what weanlings and yearlings are fetching in the ring,was going to send a couple of mares to stallions this year but starting to have second thoughts as service fee and all other fees sounding to costly.


    REDONE likes this post.

  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts

    No i dont think those that have stallions get it. Or they get you in then "kill " you with vet and agistment fees.

    Have been told its the agistment fees they rely on.

  • CPLCPL    626 posts
    If I could ask a question ?

    If someone bought a older Grp 3 winning mare and she had progeny that had raced for poor results is that mare eligible if she was living in WA with WA owners, and to add to that what funding is she entitled to?
  • fefe    16 posts
    My biggest worry is that if she is a group 3 winning mare that has had poor form with her progeny Why waste money breeding her again when you can go to the sales and save time and $$ and get what you want. Unless someone has choosen the wrong stallion lines for her and just wasted a **** load of time and money.

    There would be no point worrying about what she is eligible for or what funding is available if she is not producing on or being bred smartly.

    Sorry big pet hate of mind breeding a mare just because it has a uterus!! same goes with a stallion and its testicals. The market is flooded with very average horses with very average conformation why add to it and lets face it waste money that you really don't have on a hunch/punt/gut feeling unless the line has been proven in the past.

    In all honestly I know that breeding is a numbers game ( ie the more numbers the stallion gets regardless of the mares lines he has to get some sort of good strike rate with progeny that do well), but it does not mean that you cant breed smart and properly match your mare/stallion up so they at least have half a chance of doing well instead of being cast aside and left for dead so to speak.

    It does not take a blind man to see that the WA breeding industry is in a bit of strife atm ( alarm bells rung out when Paul Holmes a court pulled out) so why don't put people put some actual thought into it and do it right?? Instead of wasting money. It costs the same to have/breed/keep a good horse as a bad horse.

    Yes you are right, most stud owners do rely on the agistment of the mares for the income if they lease/stand the stallion for others. But its up to you to shop savvy work out if there is any other options.

    *sorry will get off my soap box now*
  • CPLCPL    626 posts
    It's not my intention to do the above but I'm asking if a mare like this is eligible for the maximum benifit ?

    If she is then I see how it's a waste of money for the insensitive scheme ?

    But from memory and correct me if I'm wrong but sacred falls was a sixth of seventh foal of a well breed mare that through nothing before her ?

    Anyway I was just courious.
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