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Special General Meeting Kalgoorlie

Harness & Greyhounds

SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING-Wednesday 9th May 2018 at 6pm in the Members Lounge of the GMTC!
We would like trainers, drivers, owners, sponsors, advertisers, staff, supporters,
anyone interested in trying to keep pacing in the Goldfields to attend.
We are looking at approaching RWWA with the argument that it’s not just
about racing and returns, it’s more than that. It’s about the loss to
the community and the ability for them to enjoy a night out.


So hopefully we get a great turnout that we can show RWWA that we are
well supported here and maybe we can overturn this decision and continue
racing in Kalgoorlie.
The more that turn up the better chance of showing RWWA that GMTC is relevant in the Community

Hope to see you all there!

+1 -1

Offthebit, sonny, Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

Comments

  • Kane_26Kane_26    37 posts
    I understand it's disappointing for the Kalgoorlie Trotting Club, it's members, supporters and community but as an industry going forward this decision had to be made. As a trainer we all got an opportunity to have our say re the survey and a maximum majority all agreed the distance was simply to hard.

    The days of trainers being able to pack up their lives for six months and stay in Kal are gone. There is a severe lack of youth coming through from the Goldfields region and it is a blight on the industry and its participants to keep asking people to travel a minimum of six hours and lose your Friday and your Saturday re working along with working other horses.

    I'm strongly led to believe that the club was actually offered a handful of meetings next season to farewell their fans, sponsors and participants but the club rejected the offer and actually wanted more meetings then they had last year! These meetings are better off closer to the Great Southern and South West regions along with Kellerberrin as they will bring larger field sizes which equals for better turnover = better for the industry.

    You can increase the stake money as much as you like but it's extremely unfair on the MAJORITY of the industry and its participants to have money being poured into a MINORITY area. There's only 11 trainers in the area who agreed to have a total of approximately 50 horses in work for the next season (you could barely run a meeting with that without outsider support).

    Unfortunately for the Goldfields in this financial environment they are just to far away from the MAJORITY of the industry. As sad as it is for this industry to go forward this decision had to be made.

    loose_goose likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,465 posts
    edited April 16
    I think there are multiple things to consider in the shut down of Kalgoorlie....and I guess they have all been canvassed by RWWA but it all depends on what you think is important....be it history, nostalgia, turnover, industry base, travel, trainer attitudes, stakemoney, regional participation ....they are all deserving of consideration.
    I fear that turnover is driving every thing these days....and that's understandable but if that was the only consideration, we would shut down everything and just race at Gloucester Park. In doing so, a lot of history and tradition would be consigned to an as yet unwritten history book. Involvement at a regional level is dissolving fast and that has coincided with previous decisions made to close down multiple country clubs and circuits and the situation of death by a 1000 cuts to some of the country clubs that are being drip fed very limited dates. I could rave on about Dainty's Daughter, Radiant Oro, Binshaw, Frosty Nelson, Color Glo and all the rest of the past champs that emanated from a paddock in the country somewhere. Will that ever happen again? Against all hope, probably not. But when I go to Busso and Collie and Wagin and battle to get a seat in the Dining room, I think there is still hope. Keeping the game alive in the regions is critical for the future of the industry in my view.
    By shutting down Kalgoorlie, isn't the baby being thrown out with the bathwater? On course attendance at GP on Tuesdays and probably Bunbury and Pinjarra ( I regularly attend those meetings and would battle to count 40 patrons in attendance aside from industry participants, Cup nights, major meetings excepted) is pathetic....obviously turnover is the criteria that rules above all else.
    If at least the Kalgoorlie Round meetings were retained, with both attendance and turnover criteria being met, history would be preserved and a presence of harness racing in the Goldfields would be retained. Surely that is not asking too much....metro trainers would go up for the week, and 3 meetings in the week set around the Hannans Handicap and the Kalgoorlie Cup (minus a Jimmy Barnes concert run in direct opposition to the trots) as it used to be is a distinctly viable proposition. I don't know what the situation is in respect to running some non TAB meetings at Kal and I don't know whether that is a possibility. But to simply shut down the whole shooting match seems to me, to be a very bad decision.
    I am not privy to any of the stuff about how many meetings the club asked for and how many horses are in work and how many trainers there are but one thing is certain....if the current decision stands, there will be zero horses in work, zero trainers training, a very good facility will go to waste and there will be zero interest in Harness Racing from a fairly significant regional city. Whilst respecting others views, and acknowledging valid points they raise, in the big picture of things,  I can't make any sense of the decision to shut up shop.

     
  • sonnysonny    536 posts
    Hi Kane, Have they actually asked the majority of the industry and its  participants if its unfair or is it a presumption?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    Absolutely outstanding appraisal JJ.
    There has been a massive breakdown in communication between the metro governing body and those willing to engage in the Kalgoorlie season it seems....both local and the travelling groups of licenced personnel and local club management.
    There is 90 years of social contract that should be honoured with Kalgoorlie .....even if it means just the retention of the round. 
    To have the industry completely wiped out in the fashion you so succinctly pointed out is counter productive ....and the lost local engagement will come back to bite this industry financially.... no doubt.


    Ridersonthestorm33, spinking likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    sonny said:

    Hi Kane, Have they actually asked the majority of the industry and its  participants if its unfair or is it a presumption?

    The local trainers in Kalgoorlie did not receive the survey from what I am told. 
    Therefore they felt on the back foot from the outset in terms of arguing any relevant points. 
  • Kane_26Kane_26    37 posts
    JayJay, I 110% agree with you that we need to look after the country regions like your Wagin's, Collie's, Busselton's etc but I do believe there is a far greater place for those clubs then Kalgoorlie. These places are far more central then Kal (3.5 hours from its nearest track) and have a greater horse pool surrounding these areas.

    Kalgoorlie has 3/4 of its trainers over 50 with very little interest shown in the way of younger trainers coming through. So let's say in 15 years time no one else comes into the industry from Kal there may only be three trainers up there, how is that sustainable?

    I don't want to be the to get tomatoes thrown my way as this is just an opinion from a younger generation. I've spoken at length with many colleagues who have an above average size stables and it's unanimous that the travel is to great.

    Maybe that's just the opinion of the younger generation but sometimes we need to leave the past in the past (nostalgia) and remember it is 2018 not 1978 and the price of everything has gone up along with trying to survive make a living and to support a family.

    I understand it would of been great to have three meetings over the round but there would be point for local trainers to have horses in work for three meetings a year and where would the outside horses come from?
  • Kane_26Kane_26    37 posts
    sonny said:

    Hi Kane, Have they actually asked the majority of the industry and its  participants if its unfair or is it a presumption?


    hi sonny, I'm not sure i understand your question but I'll try explain what I think you've asked. In January as far as I know all trainers were sent an email with a survey asking what they could do (if anything) to get horse numbers up in Kalgoorlie and if not what was our main reason for not wanting to race at Kalgoorlie.

    I thought everyone received that but maybe RWWA didn't send it out to everyone. I'm lead to believe that the results were approximately 90-95% of who completed the survey stated that the travel was the deterrent.
  • JayJayJayJay    4,465 posts
    Looking after the regions???? Williams 2 meetings, Bridgetown 2 meetings, Wagin 6 or 7 meetings........Gloucester Park Tuesday ghost meetings 50??

    Tracks shut down...Cunderdin, York, Katanning, Wylie, Trayning, Merredin, Harvey,

    Prices going up.....clearly a recent phenomena that didn't occur in 1978?

    Look no point in getting into a pie fight but we are on different pages. Economic rationalism is a soulless heartless strategy ruled only by bottom lines with zero respect for community or history no matter what it is applied to and the long term outcomes are always very problematical. I am just expressing my view, fully expecting that it won't hold up and attract only patronising dribble like "sometimes we need to leave the past in the past (nostalgia)". There are fewer comments that I find more offensive or insulting than younger people advising me to "leave the past behind". By all means argue your case with facts and figures but don't trot out insulting cliche's.

    Ridersonthestorm33, Offthebit likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    768 posts
    The distance is the killer

    Perth- 593 kilometres to Kal

    Where as Pert to Kellerberrin is 205 klms -huge difference

    Ive got to take my hat off to the Perth gallops trainers who go to Kalgoorlie gallops and return to Perth - because i dont think there is a worse  road trip than Kalgoorlie  or Coolgardie to Perth ( which ive done stacks of times ) when the sun is setting - that mungrel blinding sun shining directly into you like a gun barrel - fancing pulling a horse float driving back to Perth
  • Kane_26Kane_26    37 posts
    edited April 16
    I am just expressing my view, fully expecting that it won't hold up and attract only patronising dribble like "sometimes we need to leave the past in the past (nostalgia)". There are fewer comments that I find more offensive or insulting than younger people advising me to "leave the past behind". By all means argue your case with facts and figures but don't trot out insulting cliche's.



    If I'm not the first younger person to tell you to leave the past behind maybe it's telling you something? The fact remains there are 11 registered trainers in Kalgoorlie a number of whom didn't start a horse last season.

    We'll agree to disagree, but unfortunately you're a one in a thousand owner JayJay who is prepared to travel far and wide to watch his horses. The majority of owners don't even go to the trots.

    This day and age everything is on tv and albeit your opinion might be Gloucester Park Tuesdays are ghost meetings, but from a turnover perspective they are the second best turnover night of the week behind Friday night. Pinjarra Monday is a close third.

    Whilst this will never be proven, it's hard to fathom that a Collie Tuesday meeting would have as good a turnover, is it?
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    Where have all the let’s save Kalgoorlie trots people been the last 5 years? Even blind Freddy could see it was it was a sinking ship! They’ve been running 6 race non full field meetings with Courtney and Aldo starting 30 horses between them, if it wasn’t for them 2 Kal would of closed down years ago... Courtney’s team has halved not even sure if she was going this season where were they going to find another 16 horses to barely scrape a meeting together?

    Kane_26 likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    807 posts
    Think our generation are the only ones that can fight for the next generation of harness particpants, once they have total closure that's it......Without seeing the survey theres answers you want and get.. A lot trainers have never gone to Kalgoorlie purely based on its to far...But ask questions like what would get you to race your horses at kalg... RWWA covering the cost of  12 horse float, contractor receives 5k round trip...gee  that's two trucks and  10 meetings 100k etc.
     Alleged  the total cost of 100k going to America and ireland and finished up with one horse for inters and 12 trainers your throwing the door in there face ,think they pay full licences to race for three months of the year without a whinge       ...Wall to wall racing
    in tabs and our  industry reliance on tab turnover, a race like the inters to the rank and file punters its just another race but to us geniue lovers of the harness its a chance to witness the best ,...But if trainers are forced out the  door  the 5.4mill of the inters prizemoney  over 3 years could have been well spent.. but people have been leaveing the industry  for years but theres are difference when trainers are forced out , glad there was a group of harness people that put there own money up for stakes, to get Kalgoorlie started again pre tab  ,They actual handed the grounds over to the Kalgoorlie road boards on the condition they never paid rent as they couldn't pay for the up keep of the fence of the complex   So anyone that's   trained, drove,  owned  a winner at gmtc in the last 60-70 years ... Glad those half dozen old  blokes back then believed..  .
    Its always easier to shut things down...

    At the worst it could be maintained as a training establishment  similar to Cunderdin  york  byford waneroo Jandakot, dunbarton? for those trainers to stay involved if they wish....
  • KTQKTQ    109 posts
    Well if you cut all of the tracks surrounding Kalgoorlie, what do you expect will be left of local trainers and the industry??

    Slowly slowly they're reducing regional track meets which reduces regional trainers. My dad drives to Perth, Pinjarra and Bunbury every week from Busselton. It's bloody tough driving those distances all the time, to the point where he hasn't started at GP or PJ once or twice because he needs a break from just the driving.

    Up the meets at regional tracks and show them some love

    jum likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    edited April 17
    Yep....it sure must have been punishing for Aldo to go to Kalgoorlie for 4 months and walk away with 100K plus in stakemoney. One trip up for the horses...stable on course...no racenight travel...small fields....four months later take them home. Cheaper and easier than being in Perth and travelling to every one horse town around the place.
    The trouble with the younger generation is that they are too soft and tied to mummy's apron strings to venture out into the big wide world and have a crack. God forbid they might meet some people with a quid who will become stable clients,
    Paint my helmet and send me to GP where I can drive (carve up) some battlers horses for 65 a throw and tweet about it before I am tucked in at night.
    Watch out Albany...you are a bit too far away as well for this mob.

    JayJay, paraletic, jum likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    4,465 posts
    Correct Curmudgeon, I know one trainer, a renowned traveler, that gave a potential owner the time of day after meeting up at an outer country track,a while back..He now has 4 extra horses in his stable.
    To be fair, some of the younger drivers are only too willing to travel far and wide to drive at the outer country meetings which is appreciated....and it is a good grounding for them. Have found them to be very respectful and accomodating. And they never tell me to stop wallowing in the past!!!!

    curmudgeon likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts

    Yep....it sure must have been punishing for Aldo to go to Kalgoorlie for 4 months and walk away with 100K plus in stakemoney. One trip up for the horses...stable on course...no racenight travel...small fields....four months later take them home. Cheaper and easier than being in Perth and travelling to every one horse town around the place.

    The trouble with the younger generation is that they are too soft and tied to mummy's apron strings to venture out into the big wide world and have a crack. God forbid they might meet some people with a quid who will become stable clients,
    Paint my helmet and send me to GP where I can drive (carve up) some battlers horses for 65 a throw and tweet about it before I am tucked in at night.
    Watch out Albany...you are a bit too far away as well for this mob.




    You’ve completely missed the mark... again... it’s not the travelling trainers that have caused Kal to close it’s the locals. Take some time out of your I’m sure very busy day and look back at Kal fields year by year the last 10 seasons and count the local trainers horses. People like Brett Snell and Chris Hazelwood would have 15 in work between them last few seasons they’ve barely had 2 and no new trainers have filled the void, the simple fact is the local trainer support wasn’t enough to make Kalgoorlie viable

    Kane_26 likes this post.

  • MoonrakerMoonraker    22 posts

    I think the travelling trainers have indirectly caused Kal to close. Their teams are too big and too good. Not knocking them though - good on them for exploiting a nieche

    Why would Snell and Hazelwood bother have 15 in work - they are not going to be able to win many more races. 


  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    Moonraker said:

    I think the travelling trainers have indirectly caused Kal to close. Their teams are too big and too good. Not knocking them though - good on them for exploiting a nieche

    Why would Snell and Hazelwood bother have 15 in work - they are not going to be able to win many more races. 





    They had good teams and were very good trainers when they had the interest it just seems they lost it
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    768 posts
    As i mentioned on an earlier threadon this topic - Broken Hill is the best comparism - because its a long way from anywhere

    BH to Adelaide 513 ks

    BH to Sydney 1170 ks

    BH to Mildura 295k - and thats probably where they  have got a bit of an advantage - because Mildura is most of the time 6-7k races and they would have double the meetings of Kellerberrin ( closest to Kal )

    So you will now and again see A Adams and K Hocking ( decent BH trainers ) at Mildura

    I looked up their website  - they race Nov - March  plenty of Sat nights - all nontab - bar their cup meeting - where theyd be 80k of stakemoney

    However i agree with others - the Kal local trainers have lost interest . None of those BH trainers would be full time no way - theyd be working in the engineering/mining industry - and because they love horse they train a few of them as a hobby
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    Snell and Hazelwood would never have had 15 horses in work between them....ever.
    Kalgoorlie has always relied on visiting or transitory trainers from the days of Whitfield Groves Stevens Tiller Kukela etc through to S Young Inwood Emmett Fairless Cortopassi Burch etc etc
    The point is if the season was abandoned the 3 Round meetings should have remained.
    There has never been an issue filling that void.....ballots were more of a concern most rounds and it stood on its own two legs as a carnival event. A potpourri of licenced trainers regularly make their way whinge free to Kalgoorlie for the round.
    Plenty of metro trainers will be hoping goldfields resident Pete Gianni doesn't lose interest and stop buying yearlings for them as summarily as the axe was dropped on his hometowns industry participation .....at any level. 
    Altruism it seems is a one way street...it's ok to have finance coming to the metro area from the regions but maintaining even a token presence in the community is not so crucial.


  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    Hey Curmudgeon are you forgetting when we lost a meeting over the round due to insufficient noms a few seasons back?
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    And just to add to that Bond was also travelling at the time!
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    It's called Marketing 101.
    When industry participants held office at the GMTC....such as Merv Glasson ....he got on the blower and ensured / harangued people to come up and they did....and enjoyed it.
    Can you remember when there was a round with 12 12 & 11 races Rocket ? No...didn't think so.
    Boutique round ....10 K per race for 3 nights with a 30 K Cup.
    Want to bet me the distance between Perth and Kal would still be an obstacle for that week.? 
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    Phil Duggan might even go up ....instead of propping up GP Tue meetings....after all he spent years at Leonora.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    Apart from the season just gone cup has been 30k with 10k races between the Tuesday meeting they lost due to insufficient noms a few seasons ago had feature races on it also... Do you argue for the sake of arguing? The local trainers have next to no horses in work the travelling trainers are few and far between Burch’s team has diminished.. All of a sudden Kal has finished and you wanna name all these trainers that could go? One season the club paid any trainers willing to travel $100 per starter just so they could hold fields together... Do I need to keep going?
  • savethegamesavethegame    807 posts

    Hey Curmudgeon are you forgetting when we lost a meeting over the round due to insufficient noms a few seasons back?

    that was the first time ever  a meeting was programed on the same night 20th sept 2016 of  a country class meeting  at gp.       that didn't help... (round week)

    love reading  there motto   HARNESS THE RHYTHEM

                                    BUILD THE PROFILE OF HARNESSRACING
                                    INSTIL CONFIDENCE WITHIN INDUSTRY AND ENCOURAGE
                                   PARTICIPATION TO BROADER AUDIENCE
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    187 posts
    Definitely didn’t but like I said Bond was still there with a large team
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    945 posts
    Large team ....what...Ryan Warwick and 5 horses ?

  • savethegamesavethegame    807 posts
    Some very questionable decisions  have made by gmtc themselves or in conjunction  rwwa, decisions made by non horse people like removeing  the two meetings prior to the round  for the oppunity for local trainers  to get horses fit to race over the round,,so effectively a local trainer had lost four race dates, more than likely he would only start once over round to kick a horses campaign off under those circumstances..
     
    2016 rocket was the year no meetings prior to the round, plus quite a few said bondy was going to be to hard to beat,and they would stay home, but if they had the chance to arrive for the   two meetings  prior to the round there chance to earn would have been greater... then crumbs over the round,  but because your already setup for the rest of year after the top stables had left after round week, poor planning by who? then trying to race on Saturday nights and sunday afternoons has never worked  before was tried years ago,  gmtc. turnover has always been excellent  on Friday nights.


  • Kane_26Kane_26    37 posts
    Unfortunately some of us will have to agree to disagree but the general consensus from the industry is/was that RWWA were better off removing the meetings from Kalgoorlie and race more central for the majority of the industry.

    I think the three biggest points that people opposing the decision need to get there heads around are that there is only 11 registered trainers in Kalgoorlie with the youngest trainer being 30 and without a trainer with a large stable. Of those 11 trainers four never started a horse last season!

    As Barry Hamilton said this morning the industry had spoken by not nominating and I can assure you the general consensus was/is that trainers aren't interested in travelling that far for any kind of prize money.

    The last point is in my opinion the most damning, RWWA offered the club a number of meetings to say farewell of which GMTC along with its committee and members pretty well said "stick it". At the end of the day the decision is final and whether you love or hate the decision it will no lt be changed.

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

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