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Comments
Bring on Caulfield :))
jum, oldhendo likes this post.
https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/golden-slipper-winning-stallion-dies/503829
[-X
Both up in the weights - but at their best - both thrown in at the weights!
Was highly fancied in his first Melbourne Cup Red Cardinal. Big Duke fourth in a classy Melbourne Cup - Kris Lees had them right on the day. Get them right and the weight is the least of their worries.
The remarkable thing their often at big odds - the bottom weighted ( they arn't really ) favoured horses in the race wouldn't get within cooey of a Melbourne Cup.
Interesting comments from Shane Dye
Dye's Tie, a worthy champion
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy 11:03am O
,(
Twenty years ago, a fascinating sequence of wins began. It would be such an extended sequence, that it ultimately told tales of longevity and of great will and it is one that Winx is set to write herself into.
Tie The Knot won the first of four Chipping Norton Stakes in 1999 for one of racing's most popular figures, the late trainer Guy Walter. The horse had an off-your-seats finish and combined with those unmistakable red colours of his jockey, that sometimes seemed to make him go faster, he instantly clicked with racing fans.
To put it into some context, if The All-Star Mile had been around at the turn of the century, you'd concede a spot immediately to Tie The Knot, such was his broad appeal.
Each year in the Chipping Norton from 1999 through to 2002, he would sit back then finish over the top of them, not totally dissimilar to the manner Winx has achieved her first three.
Shane Dye's Group 1 tally sits somewhere in the 90s and among them are some of Australia's elite racehorses over three decades. But none of them won him more elite races than Tie The Knot, who he partnered to nine such victories.
He won the Chipping Norton on him that day in 1999 and again a year later. Dye then left for Hong Kong and watched from afar as his old mate won two more for Patrick Payne.
"I actually flew back and rode him in his last race in the (2002) BMW," Dye said this week. "He had a beautiful run in fourth, he came out but there was nothing and when I came in I said to (owner) Sandy Tait - and I had a tear in my eye - 'This isn't the same horse' I told him. He said: 'Right, we're going to retire'."
So, in March 2002 after five seasons at the top level, the grand career of Tie The Knot came to an end after 62 starts, 21 wins and more than $6 million in prizemoney.
"I put a lot of his success down to Sandy, who knew racing inside out, and to Guy," Dye said. "A great horseman and he loved this horse so much.
"He was a beautiful horse. It was a shame he couldn't really go the Melbourne way. He went alright at Moonee Valley and Caulfield but for some reason, he couldn't get around Flemington.
"I thought he'd win a Melbourne Cup for sure. But he ran in two Mackinnon Stakes and a Melbourne Cup and he just didn't get around.
"As soon as you jumped, you'd just have two hands on one rein. He just wanted to run off. He never did that at Caulfield or Moonee Valley.
"In the Caulfield Cup (when third to Taufan's Melody in 1998), he was just one run short. He was going to win at the furlong but he just knocked up.
"He won the Sydney Cup as a three-year-old after he got beat in the (AJC) Derby because it was a wet track and he wasn't solid.
"He was a funny horse. I've never ridden a horse like him. You never had to hit him much as when he'd had enough, he'd had enough. He used to tell you."
These days, Dye is living in Macau but keeping a close eye on the feature racing in Australia.
He bows to Winx as a superstar but bemoans the lack of depth in Australian racing at present. He said the change over the past few decades to today, where fillies and mares dominant throughout the world, can be put down to several factors.
"There's a few reasons," he started. "Steroids is the first. When they went out, that didn't help the geldings. The second is, all the good horses in Australia are sold to Hong Kong.
"If you look last year, the best run in the ATC Derby by far was the sixth-placed horse Furore. He had a shocking run and probably should have won and I said that is the horse for the future but he was sold to Hong Kong for big money.
"The other horse I liked last year was Dark Dream. He looked very impressive in Brisbane and in Sydney going through the grades. He was sold for huge money.
"So, all of a sudden, the two best geldings in Australia are gone.
"Once upon a time, horses weren't retired as early three-year-olds but with so much money at stud, the best colts are shipped straight off to stud.
"So the best colts are gone and the best geldings are gone.
"The competition in general in Australia is way down as to what it used to be 20 years ago.
"If you have a look overseas, mares have won five of the past six Arcs (Prix de l'Arc de Triomphs). You go to America and the last superstar was the mare Zenyatta.
"The last three superstars in Australia have been Makybe Diva, the first horse to ever win three Melbourne Cups. Then we had Black Caviar, who was unbeaten for 25 starts and then there is Winx going for 31 wins in a row.
"Just think of those records, all coming in the last decade or two. It's not coincidence."
Few people are more qualified than Dye to comment on the transformation that has struck racing throughout the world. Just under 100 Group 1 winners throughout a career that began in New Zealand and ended in Mauritius in 2013 after a long time in Hong Kong.
His first Group 1 came in the George Main Stakes in 1986, around the time of his 20th birthday, aboard Ma Chiquita for trainer Neville Begg.
Dye said his comments were not meant to glorify the past over the present but to explain the changed landscape.
"I love watching Winx and I think she's a champion," he said.
"But the competition she is racing against is very, very ordinary and everyone knows that.
"But that's all that's here. It's not her fault. It's not Chris Waller's fault."
As a former master tactician himself, Dye also keeps a close eye on the current riders and he is certain that another of the reasons Winx is so dominant is because of who rides her.
"Hughie (Bowman) rides her unbelievably," Dye said. "What he does on her is just perfect."
Dye wanted to ensure his comments were not portrayed as him having a shot at the mare who is likely to add a fourth Chipping Norton Stakes to her astonishing record.
"I am not putting Winx down in any way. But I would have loved to have seen her in the Kingston Town era. I don't know what would have happened. It would have been interesting," he said.
"The one thing I do know is that she wouldn't have this unbeaten run."
Tie The Knot had lived 18 years when he passed away in 2012. Just two years later, Walter died of a heart attack.
oldhendo, Ridersonthestorm33, Manchild, spinking likes this post.
oldhendo likes this post.
All these large bets - do wonder if their legit sometimes - guess they are. Saw one of the big ones recently was over 100k a place at $1.03!!!
3rd - 1997 Listed Normon Robinson Stakes: 57kg, margin - 0.9 lengths (2000m SWP Caulfield), winner - Brave Prince (54kg)
2nd - 1997 G1 Victoria Derby: 55.5kg, margin - 3 lengths (2500m SW at Flemington), winner - Second Coming (55.5kg)
1st - 1998 G1 Underwood Stakes: 57kg, margin - 0.5 lengths (1800m WFA Caulfield)
7th - 1998 G2 Turnbull Stakes: 57.5kg, margin - 4 lengths (2000m SWP at Flemington), winner - Aerosmith (59kg)
3rd - 1998 G1 Caulfield Cup: 55.5kg, margin - 0.6 lengths (2400m hcp at Caulfield), winner - Taufan's Melody (53.5kg)
5th - 1998 G1 Mackinnon Stakes: 57kg, margin - 4.2 lengths (2000m WFA at Flemington), winner - Champagne (54.5kg)
6th - 1998 G1 Melbourne Cup: 55.5kg, margin - 2.9 lengths (3200m hcp at Flemington0, winner - Jezabeel (51kg)
2nd - 1999 G1 Caulfield Stakes: 59kg, margin - 4.5 lengths (2000m WFA at Caulfield), winner - Northern Drake (58kg)
2nd - 1999 G1 Cox Plate: 58kg, margin - 1.5 lengths (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley), winner - Sunline (54kg)
8th - 1999 G1 Mackinnon Stakes: 58kg, margin - 9.6 lengths (2000m WFA at Flemington), winner - Rogan Josh (58kg)
14th - 1999 G1 Melbourne Cup: 58kg, margin - 10.3 lengths (3200m hcp at Flemington), winner - Rogan Josh (50kg)
3rd - 2000 G1 Caulfield Stakes: 58kg, margin - 1.9 lengths (2000m WFA at Caulfield), winner - Sky Heights (58kg)
9th - 2000 G1 Cox Plate: 58kg, margin - 17.8 lengths (2040m WFA at Moonee Valley), winner - Sunline (55.5kg)
14th - 2001 G1 Sir Rupert Clarke Stakes: 59kg, margin - 4 lengths (1400m hcp at Caulfield), winner - Mr Murphy (54.5kg)
Tracks:
Caulfield: 6 starts: 1-1-3
Moonee Valley: 2 starts: 0-1-0
Flemington: 6 starts: 0-1-0
Total Starts in Melbourne: 14 starts: 1-3-3
oldhendo likes this post.
Still.WA horse imo
HORSES WITH 10 OR MORE GROUP 1 WINS
**List includes horses who raced on the flat and raced over the jumps. Country in brackets is where they were foaled**
23 wins
Winx (AUS)
22 wins
Hurricane Fly (IRE)
16 wins
John Henry (USA)
Kauto Star (FR)
15 wins
Black Caviar (AUS)
14 wins
Affirmed (USA)
Forego (USA)
Goldikova (IRE)
Kingston Town (AUS)
Istabraq (IRE)
13 wins
Bayakoa (ARG)
Moscow Flyer (IRE)
Spectacular Bid
Sunline (NZ)
Tie the Knot (AUS)
Zenyatta (USA)
11 wins
Beholder (USA)
Cigar (USA)
Lady's Secret (USA)
Lonhro (AUS)
Manikato
McDynamo (USA)
Rough Habit (NZ)
Serena's Song(USA)
Wise Dan (USA)
10 wins
Azeri (USA)
Beef or Salmon (IRE)
Big Buck's (FRA)
Brave Inca (IRE)
Dahlia (USA)
Faugheen
Frankel (GB)
Miesque (USA)
Paseana (ARG)
Octagonal (NZ)
Mufhasa (NZ)
Skip Away (USA)
So You Think (NZ)
Horses to win Group 1s in both Hemispheres from that list:
So You Think (5)
Sunline (1)
Black Caviar (1)
Are there more G1s these days than in the days of the likes of Tie the Knot and Kingston Town etc?
jum likes this post.
Only about 15 winning chances!
oldhendo likes this post.