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GP- 8/3 WA 2yo Sales Classic Finals Night

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • batfinkbatfink    11 posts
    Have a look at Ernie Manning’s article in the West Aust on Saturday. He wrote a relatively long piece praising Double Expresso in fillies final and then a subtle one sentence quoting result of colts final. It says it all about what he thought.
  • ToepuntitToepuntit    208 posts
    As an owner I'm sure he wanted his to win, but as a trainer he didn't care who ran 1,2 as long as they were his, if you really think they give 2 figs about the punters you really need to reevaluate your thinking, obviously the blind mice were told the Fav was going to take cover and the stable mate was going to push forward hence no questions being asked. The rules are there, this time he followed them so it's cut and dried in reality
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,419 posts
    APG.video  after race Justin prentice saying I am not the only owner of this horse all these people are 13 at presentation,
  • batfinkbatfink    11 posts

    APG.video  after race Justin prentice saying I am not the only owner of this horse all these people are 13 at presentation,

    Irrelevant .... the inexcusable fact is that Manning was not allowed to be driven to run at its maximum potential to win the race. We ALL agree that if Major Martini was from another stable there is no way in holy month of Sundays that Junior hands up

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  • Browny123Browny123    86 posts
    So batfink...I take it you won’t be lining up to go again in next syndicate?

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  • savethegamesavethegame    1,419 posts
    Irrelevant correct what your grief is based on....,But what I and lot others were under the impression was that Justin prentice was the sole owner which is  in correct and his decision making process wasn't purely based for his own  benefit
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    254 posts
    Browny123 said:

    So batfink...I take it you won’t be lining up to go again in next syndicate?




    Wouldn’t of thought Justin would be overly welcoming haha

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,093 posts
    Honestly there a couple of posters here - if someone posted -look im terribly sorry - but in 20 minutes time the world is going to end and we are all going to get wiped out - theyd actually like the post .

    They are attracted to certain posts - like flies are attracted to cow shitt .

    And you dont have to be Albert Einstein to know what im talking about .
  • Kane_26Kane_26    88 posts
    Markovina said:

    Honestly there a couple of posters here - if someone posted -look im terribly sorry - but in 20 minutes time the world is going to end and we are all going to get wiped out - theyd actually like the post .

    They are attracted to certain posts - like flies are attracted to cow shitt .

    And you dont have to be Albert Einstein to know what im talking about .




    Who's Albert Einstein?

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  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    368 posts

    RR the official margin was 3.7 metres.
    The question has to be asked if the leader held the lead over a 1700 mtr trip would the results have been reversed.
    Very unusual for a short priced favourite to hand up over this distance at GP, yet no communication from the stewards.
    As Marko says the rules stipulate the driver must afford every opportunity for their horse to finish in the best possible position.
    You may say the trainer knew the best horse was the eventual leader. But if it was that cut and dry why would G Hall Jnr take the drive on the inferior horse (favourite) when he had the option to drive either on racing radio.
    Instead he takes the drive on the short priced favourite and gives any opportunity of winning the race away by handing up the lead.
    That to me is not giving your horse the best opportunity to perform to its best.
    I still maintain the whole issue with this race is the lack of communication or action by the stewards.
    Give the general public some feedback please !!!
    And stop the innuendo.

    Jnr didn't have the choice of drives. JP had to drive the horse he owns. IF Jnr drives the eventual winner then JP has to sit the race out as he cant drive another horse if he has one in the race he owns.
  • freodockersfreodockers    349 posts
    2ltw as I said it was on racing radio that he had the choice of both drives. I may be incorrect by the rules but that is what the general PUNTING public was led to believe. When backing horses I do not check who the owners are to see who should be driving the horse.
  • batfinkbatfink    11 posts

    Browny123 said:

    So batfink...I take it you won’t be lining up to go again in next syndicate?




    Wouldn’t of thought Justin would be overly welcoming haha



    I think it’s definitely healthy and wise to spread them out among different trainers. Mainly For reasons we have just seen ..... at least events would then appear more squeaky clean ????????
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,077 posts

    2ltw as I said it was on racing radio that he had the choice of both drives. I may be incorrect by the rules but that is what the general PUNTING public was led to believe. When backing horses I do not check who the owners are to see who should be driving the horse.




    So you are having a go at the Prentice Camp because Matt Young wrongfully said Jnr had the choice of drives on racing radio??? Not someone from the stable just a presenter possibly making a blue.

    Maybe the general PUNTING public need to cross check their information?

    Major Martini Heat
    Track Rating: GOOD Gross Time: 2:09:2 Mile Rate: 2:00:2 Lead Time: 8.6
    First Quarter: 30.9 Second Quarter: 31.2 Third Quarter: 30.1 Fourth Quarter: 28.4

    Manning Heat
    Track Rating: GOOD Gross Time: 2:08:0 Mile Rate: 1:59:1 Lead Time: 8.2
    First Quarter: 30.8 Second Quarter: 30.9 Third Quarter: 30.2 Fourth Quarter: 27.9

    Final
    Track Rating: GOOD Gross Time: 2:05:5 Mile Rate: 1:56:7 Lead Time: 8.1
    First Quarter: 30.5 Second Quarter: 30.4 Third Quarter: 28.3 Fourth Quarter: 28.2


    Just looking at the times and going back and watching the Heats again Major Martini looks a pretty laconic type, initially didn't think too much of him but I like that style of horse they can really develop.

    Who is to say that sitting on him and trying to zap him wasn't the best chance Manning had?

    As to the prices having anything to do with it that argument does my head in, they are just formed around peoples opinions, opinions that are wrong a hell of a lot.

    I remember many moons ago getting into an argument with someone at my local TAB when Andross/Ardross?? won a race at GP around the 50/1 mark. Old mates starts ranting and raving "how can that win?!? They're all cheats, anyone that backed that is a mug!" So I bit back saying I backed it, what do you know about its form? "It's 50/1 it had no bloody chance they're bloody cheats". Actually it trialed the house down the Sunday prior at Byford, just because bugger all people saw it and used that information correctly doesn't mean it wasn't there.

    Now in this case how the race was going to be run was a genuine mystery to me but seeing exactly what unfolded wasn't a shock. If it was that obvious from the stable what was going to happen you would think the prices may have been the other way around.

    Prentice had 2 sets of owners to represent, he presented both horses well and IMO both horses had their chance to win.

    If Manning ran home the quarter that it did in its heat it wins the race. It couldn't as Major Martini ran a significantly quicker gross time than in the heats and the results are now History.

    It is disappointing for connections that their horse wasn't driven as they would like but at the end of the day it was hardly Torretto vs David Hercules.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    349 posts
    Have no idea what your point is Gilgamesh.
    But whilst you raise the subject which I find ironic who was the driver of toretto, who and who won the race.
    I just can't quite remember.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,077 posts

    Have no idea what your point is Gilgamesh.
    But whilst you raise the subject which I find ironic who was the driver of toretto, who and who won the race.
    I just can't quite remember.




    My point is pretty simple you have brought up multiple times that jnr had the choice of drives because you heard it on racing radio.

    Its like saying because Ritchie said no1 is going to lead in race 1 that is what has to happen.

    It wasnt G Hall jnr or J Prentice who said he had the choice of drives it was a throw away line from M Young which would be easy to make at a quick glance of the form.

    It has since been stated the Prentice couldnt have driven Manning as he had a share in the other horse so that is how the drive was decided but you have decided to ignore that information.

    Yep G Hall drove both, maybe Manning would have dropped out like a pricked balloon too if he was driven more aggressively, we will never know.

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  • batfinkbatfink    11 posts
    Who had choice of drives is irrelevant in the extreme.
    Fact is : JP TOLD JUNIOR “YOU ARE HANDING UP TO ME”.
    End of story and End of race

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    254 posts
    batfink said:

    Who had choice of drives is irrelevant in the extreme.
    Fact is : JP TOLD JUNIOR “YOU ARE HANDING UP TO ME”.
    End of story and End of race




    Is this your first horse?
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,419 posts
    Not sure people in the industry realize at what rate Australia wide the harm  multiple runners from stables is doing to the industry.

    Golden Nugget once  regarded as the best four yearold race in the country last running was like a byford trial there was no surprises from the moment acceptances, just how many g.bond would have in first five placegetters bingo got the lot&thoroughly deserved...Didn't have a bean on the race but felt for people that fancied mighty conqueror...….But it was a feel good for the majority as ana malak was favourite. think if Egerton-green had blowing it a extra kiss here and there in the run it  could .have got the choccies no hurt attached here sameowners

    Now we roll onto the one millon dollar miracle mile a week out poster boy draws one, a immediate handcrank one would think, no the puppet straight away says I'm doomed if I lead one of them will bust me open, if I restrain and sit they will play leapfrog and best I will be three back the marker line.

    As for us punters previews are a good tool to confirm your beliefs or something is mentioned that you haven't factored in just on manning sure mat young mentioned manning was on one rein first-up hanging in at release point his exposed form.but was correct in saying how quick babies can improve, so  they do there best to  help.

    But when our showpiece races look like trials someones got to work on a solution.



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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,077 posts
    @savethegame Not gaving a go at Matt, the preview is just his opinion and the guys trying to pass on what info they have/believe.

    Completely agree on the multiple runners factor but what is the solution? I dont like the idea of forcing stables to make tactics public as it is meant to be a race, why let everyone you race against know what you are about to do? To me that takes away from the spectacle as well, if horse A says they are going forward then horse B might decide not to when it is far more entertaining if they both have a crack.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,077 posts
    Im not going to continue to argue because I clearly disagree with the level of criticism aimed at a stable who has done a great job for connections and driven the horse in the same manor as its only previous race start, it just appears to have taken a sit on a superior animal.

    One of the connections wanted to be more aggressive in the race and I respect that. Bit different having an owner coming on here to air his grievances but as a punter I know I do it all the time!

    It reminds me of things i have only read about the 80s and early where good horses went through multiple stables as connections weren't happy with how their horse was driven etc.

    I hope batfink gets his way in the future and the horse is driven aggressively creating exciting racing.


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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,077 posts
    Im not going to continue to argue because I clearly disagree with the level of criticism aimed at a stable who has done a great job for connections and driven the horse in the same manor as its only previous race start, it just appears to have taken a sit on a superior animal.

    One of the connections wanted to be more aggressive in the race and I respect that. Bit different having an owner coming on here to air his grievances but as a punter I know I do it all the time!

    It reminds me of things i have only read about the 80s and early where good horses went through multiple stables as connections weren't happy with how their horse was driven etc.

    I hope batfink gets his way in the future and the horse is driven aggressively creating exciting racing.


  • batfinkbatfink    11 posts

    batfink said:

    Who had choice of drives is irrelevant in the extreme.
    Fact is : JP TOLD JUNIOR “YOU ARE HANDING UP TO ME”.
    End of story and End of race




    Is this your first horse?
    No Rocket_Reign, it’s sixth horse

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  • ChrisChris    4,134 posts
    Lively early!

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    1,419 posts
    Early bird always catches the worm.
  • freodockersfreodockers    349 posts
    If we want to talk about Rorts and drug cheats let's start on the 80s to 90s a period that did that much damage to harness racing and as a result the decline started.
    Suppose we have all voiced our opinion on this race and some will agree to disagree but happy to change the subject and move on.

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