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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • ToepuntitToepuntit    170 posts
    Fair enough riders but......
    If you always drive those sort of horses dead or “to their perceived ability” they will just as regularly finish out the back door, I really don’t have a problem with them being put into the race to a degree

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    250 posts

    Chris Lewis drive in the last - not a cracker for it - blows out to 33/1 in a field of seven - cruises to the front from gate six effortlessly and never ever going to lose. Remarkable how the rank outsider with him driving can do it that easily.

    Some of the well supported runners ( weak field ) - in a word - diabolical.

    Chris Lewis drove this horse in its qualifying trial at Bunbury May 11, no vision but read up ok, ran 2nd in a 10 horse trial, beaten 2.9mts by Ohoka Sammy, 3rd was Flaming Cullen which has come out and won, was always going to lead, great price $41 fixed

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    128 posts

    An earlier race tonight - now don't get me wrong - overall much prefer races to be run this way - it does inject excitement into a race.

    However - Luke Edwards and Kim Prentice - if you're driving an ordinary horse - and you go breakneck speed with each other early - what is going to be left in the tank as you swing for home later in the race ?
    Fuel tank reading empty well and truly before then.

    After the early speed battle both were basically gone - finishing positions - second last and last.

    Steward Report:
    EXTRADITE NZ – Stewards questioned Driver K. Prentice in regards to the performance of the gelding. K. Prentice stated that once the gelding obtained the lead near the 400 metres it lost interest and as a result failed to respond to his driving and gave ground over the concluding stages. 

    Here's me thinking it just ran out of puff. 

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • BetonmeBetonme    128 posts
    Also on the stewards report this late scratching:

    Race 7 – LIVE LIKE A ROYAL – Handicapper error – No penalty

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,067 posts
    Interesting case in Vic - and i wonder wheteher it will set a precedent

    Tiana McMahon -runner - over Cobalt threshold - pleaded guilty - 12 month suspension of Trainer and divers license

    Appealed to tribunal VCAT - set aside - 12 month suspension of trainers license only - no suspension to drivers license

    I can remember when Shannon S got i think  2 years - before they handed out the suspension - i can remember reading in the West him saying - do what you like with the trainers license - suspend me for how long you deem neccesary - but leave my drivers license alone  - but they didnt accept that - and he got 2 years for both
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,223 posts
    edited July 4
    Yes in regards to Extradite ''losing interest''...does happen from exhaustion.

    Obtained the lead alright...from another horse who was more exhausted.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    58 posts
    edited July 4
    Markovina said:

    Interesting case in Vic - and i wonder wheteher it will set a precedent

    Tiana McMahon -runner - over Cobalt threshold - pleaded guilty - 12 month suspension of Trainer and divers license

    Appealed to tribunal VCAT - set aside - 12 month suspension of trainers license only - no suspension to drivers license

    I can remember when Shannon S got i think  2 years - before they handed out the suspension - i can remember reading in the West him saying - do what you like with the trainers license - suspend me for how long you deem neccesary - but leave my drivers license alone  - but they didnt accept that - and he got 2 years for both

    No precedent has already happened in WA trainers have handed in training licence and kept drivers licence for indiscretions
  • JayJayJayJay    5,177 posts
    Betonme said:

    Also on the stewards report this late scratching:

    Race 7 – LIVE LIKE A ROYAL – Handicapper error – No penalty

    Live Like A Royal had a L5$ won of $9490 (in a L5$ won race of LT $8,000) and was ineligible for the race.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    58 posts
    edited July 4
    JayJay said:

    Betonme said:

    Also on the stewards report this late scratching:

    Race 7 – LIVE LIKE A ROYAL – Handicapper error – No penalty

    Got in under $9500 with concession what excludes him was the NE winners with max win level 6+ in L5
    Live Like A Royal had a L5$ won of $9490 (in a L5$ won race of LT $8,000) and was ineligible for the race.
    Shouldn’t happen human error or tech problem computer should have made him NS based on parameters set for the conditions of the race

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,067 posts
    Be interested in a few comments - observations re Gavin Langs driving style - ive backed a few of his drives lately - and they have been in my opinion a bit so so -  thus thats probably put me a bit negative towards him at present

    However im doing the form for Ballarat tonight - so i looked at a replay of Shady Dancer ( in the last race tonight ) at its previous start - race 4 on the 3rd of July at Ballarat - 1700 metres - drew the outside gate - was last on the pegs - got no problem with the drive - but his action i have

    What in blooody hell is he doing - he ducked his head 20 times - has he got a twitchy neck - what is this nonsense - surely he should be looking straight ahead - i reckon if a jnr driver alah Corey Peterson did that stuff - the stewards would haul him in

    Can someone please tell me what Lang is doing - he does this in races - and ive got no idea why
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,757 posts
    Has anyone got any thoughts on Race 7 at Pinjarra in the home straight coming to the bell.  I am confused as to what is allowable regarding forcing a horse to race three wide at that point. Obviously the technique used was within the rules as it was not mentioned in the Stewards Report.
  • JayJayJayJay    5,177 posts
    Have a look at Bunbury November 28th 2017, Race 1. Quite a lot is allowable it seems. At least Must Be Nice, stayed in it's gear.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    1,757 posts
    The fact that Must Be Nice stayed in its gear is probably attributable to its racing manners. If it broke who would be at fault, Junior for the abrupt shift or Emily for attempting  to maintain her position?
  • JayJayJayJay    5,177 posts
    My horse did break on Nov 28th....on course, you could hear the noise of wheels clanging and battering. Driver tried to hold position, horse broke, no action taken against driver(s) or horse after review. It seems it is okay to come out and exert considerable pressure on the horse outside you from the point of entry to the straight in the run for the bell and from then on.  Must be "gradual" with  no sharp or sudden movement, cannot interfere....which for mine is an oxymoron.....well that is what I was told when I spoke with the stewards the next day. Harness equivalent of a "holding the ball decision" with discretionary powers to the ump.
  • freodockersfreodockers    280 posts
    Old rule was if you push out and your horse breaks you were not in a position to do so therefore driver suspended. Same as if you try to hold your position and your horse breaks then it is assumed you were not in a position to do so (not to be confused with jostling). Typically if your horse has its head in front then you are in a position to push or hold.
    Junior has a history of pushing and holding and horses breaking either way but nothing has ever been done about it. Remember a few years ago he put one of Olivieries horses with AC Lewis on board out of the pacing cup. Only time I have seen Lewis **** off publicly.

    Betonme likes this post.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,223 posts
    Haven't noticed that about Gavin Lang, will watch out..but do know one thing Marko - he's got the most uncanny judgement in a close finish I've ever seen from any driver.
    How many times has he got up on the line by a nose, very rarely loses in a close finish.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,316 posts
    2017 fremantle cup lewis was on john of arc who i admit was on tired legs, hall jnr. who took a huge risk, and probably more so banking on lewis knowing his horse had no more to give so  moving up the track,was sporting, as there was no run for the bull very lucky outcome.
  • ToepuntitToepuntit    170 posts
    With the old carts if you could get your shaft under the outside horses shaft you could hoist them to the outside fence if you liked and there was very little they could do other than let you out or risk getting moved out of the way, not sure how that method would work with these new carts,
    I was of the understanding you could jostle as long as it was wheel to wheel, trouble comes if your wheel starts to get near the other horses legs
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,223 posts
    Perhaps nothing to do with hoisting and jostling, and nobody a bigger traditionalist than me, but by 2019 standards believe many of our tracks Australia wide are way too small.

    In saying that think Wayville meeting in SA coming up again soon...can't wait!
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,067 posts
    As normal got my morning Cappuccino at a drive through Maccas - car in front of me was this big old white land cruiser thing - just near the number plate - there was this little sticker which read - If i didnt own a horse this car would be a Ferrari - then underneath that it had - Wanneroo Horse and Pony Club

    It brought a smile to  my face that
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    250 posts
    Tab Touch now going up with fixed odds for races 1 and 2 tonight at GP. And odds worse than S Tab on nearly every runner.

    Nothing races 3 to 9.

    Now wonder trots turnover is where it is.

    Hurry up and sell the TAB, cant be any worse.

    Ridersonthestorm33, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,067 posts
    Tab Touch have offered big unders for years

    Good example - ive had a small bet in the last at Albion Park today - Oyster Stride $15 a win and $10 place - with TAB.Com i got odds of $151 the win and $24 the place ( ive rated it a 25-1 pop - thats why i have had a little dabble on it )

    However on TAB Touch theve got it $91 the win and $10 the place

    That is a massive difference and massive unders compared to Tab .Com

    Ridersonthestorm33 likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,036 posts
    Markovina said:

    Tab Touch have offered big unders for years

    Good example - ive had a small bet in the last at Albion Park today - Oyster Stride $15 a win and $10 place - with TAB.Com i got odds of $151 the win and $24 the place ( ive rated it a 25-1 pop - thats why i have had a little dabble on it )

    However on TAB Touch theve got it $91 the win and $10 the place

    That is a massive difference and massive unders compared to Tab .Com




    If you look at tabtouch trots markets and go to the fixed flucs you will regularly see every runner has jumped at a greater price than it has opened, not one runner shortens and their market is still probably over 130%! A job for Ridersonthestorm33 perhaps to display all the opening Tabtouch market percentages one friday night.

    I'm like you Marko, I like my outside the obvious runners. You just can't back them with Tabtouch as you can't get a price the place that's worth taking.
  • freodockersfreodockers    280 posts
    Is it the same disparity for races and dogs, interesting to know.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    9,223 posts
    edited July 17
    Pretty well it is the same but they are petrified of the "smarties" ( I ain't one ) and a particular stable betting on WA trots...hence the pathetic odds.
    It's got that bad it needs to be pointed out. A good game is a fair game, but it's all one way traffic. Surprise's me how a tab is even allowed to bet fixed odds but that's another story.

    We all know they can lose on a fixed odds race - just like any bookmaker of the past and present - however their almost putting the odds that much in there favour - it's impossible to lose. Clever business model must admit. There in it to make money and even its low - as long as their not losing!
    You don't want to go to your boss too often and say " we lost another 6k on Gloucester Park race 7"
    .
    Most of us know it...their would be a minimum of six or seven blokes on the trotting site know it...as well as other readers...Tabtouch odds are a joke.
    It's not a criticism...it's just a fact. The best way out - don't take unders. Refuse to bet into markets with such high %.

    If you do bet into those markets - good luck - hope you win.
  • freodockersfreodockers    280 posts
    Riders, Gilga if the market is being edited to suit then no new handicapping system, no new marketing strategies are going to make one bit of difference. If this is the case then there is no future for any code long term. It's a case of controlling the market to make profit and only one party will survive long term. I find that a staggering strategy if it is the case.
    Having said that I always thought the market was set initially, however pool size determined the odds leading up to an event. Or is this now controlled also ?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,385 posts
    edited July 17
    Keep the TAB.......axe its fixed odds wing.....reap the turnover benefit as corporates use the pari  mutuel to unload or ameliorate their marginal fixed odds market liabilities.
  • savethegamesavethegame    1,316 posts
    ALBION PARK june 11th race 5 protest 4th v 1st upheld , driver cuts up crook and gets 2 years got to love those yank carts., the rules state that you must maintain a straight,line, he has had previous form for going crook after a race...But  you see it all the time horses getting forced up the track, but this one broke.stride probably why the protest was upheld.
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    250 posts

    Keep the TAB.......axe its fixed odds wing.....reap the turnover benefit as corporates use the pari  mutuel to unload or ameliorate their marginal fixed odds market liabilities.

    You might as well say they have axed their fixed markets on the trots.

    Belmont fixed for Saturday was up 8.30am today, lets see when they put up fixed for GP Friday

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    250 posts
    11 am no fixed on Tab Touch Bunbury

    Keep up the good work
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