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GP-17/1 WA Pacing Cup (Group 1)

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    Luck is the key with Galactic Star - very unlucky in that Victorian Inters when galloped at the start, runs in the heats all excellent.

    A very good fifth at 100/1 to Lazarus in the GP Inters race - tomorrow night will either have no luck again or will get the breaks and win. Can't see him having every hope and being dissapointing.

    Bill Haley - he's the other / reckon one of them will get a good run and go wooshka...unless the fave gets it easy up front then it's the one.

    If the winner comes outside of those three it's a shock...or a Shockwave.
  • thetruththetruth    45 posts
    Chandon said:

    thetruth said:

    How Convert Denario didn't get a start is an absolute joke, the panel that made him an emergency in favor of inferior horses are nothing but an incompetent joke and need to either resign or be fired.

    Covert denario couldnt suck a fart out of the any of those 12


    Gee you sound intelligent champ.
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that Mighty Conqueror has had fitness issues lately.
    Wouldn’t this make him a potentially risky betting proposition?
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    That just might be the cue for @Chariotsonfire to recall the problems a certain Westburn Grant had... can still see that big poster stretched across the bookies ring a week after the Pacing Cup as clear as day, would've been approaching the ring around 5.30ish well before the first race and there it was....

    The difference is though Westburn Grant was a champion.

    PictureSon1973 likes this post.

  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    166 posts
    Our Jimmy Johnstone leads or only hands up to Mighty Conqueror for mine.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

  • WidenoballWidenoball    7 posts
    edited January 2020
    T
  • WidenoballWidenoball    7 posts
    edited January 2020

    To be honest who cares. Bond having 7 runners takes all the interest out for me. To throw in an unproven mare and an unsound horse as last two entries shows me how incompetent RWWA are. There’s a reason bond hasn’t won a pacing cup, but RWWA trying to make it a certainty here. That mare will be looking for an oxygen mask at the 600. Fastest career mile rate of 1.55 over all distance. Please they went 1.54 last week over 2500. She may look fast against the mares she won’t be able to cross early get caught in no man’s land and be the first horse beaten. I think she is about 35 in order of entry think GGG would have acquitted herself better and at least she won the group 1 mares race and would have earned her place not been gifted it.


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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts

    Bondy is just the latest in a list of set ups to exploit the racing policy of the former WATA & current RWWA.

    Good luck to him ...he is fair dinkum rubbing it in of recent years...but only within the rules as they exist.

    You don't have to be Einstein to work out that harness racing management of local racing policy has lacked appropriate agreement or integrated awareness, vision and direction for 30 years. 
    Buy NZ.....Race WA ...Sell USA ....that is the general winning formula supported by WA racing policy. 
    It is also the policy that has seen a contraction of WA breeder owners and trainer numbers that doesn't look like slowing down soon. Thus the diminishing interest in the WA industry at large.

    I agree with all that - i have made my point of view clear re the plague type numbers of NZ horses racing in WA

    You cant blame the ones doing that - including Jay Jay - because eveyone knows thats the safer route to take if you want a potential return on your money 

    However when the day comes - when a Pacing Cup field has got say 10 Shockwaves ( locally bred horse - i read they paid $35000 - good price at the yearling sales ) then i will become interested again - because ive got zero interest in NZ imports 

    Now if you have say 10 Shockwaves - then you have a really strong fundamental industry . Will the day come -20-30 years down the track - where these basically 3 sets( stables)  of wealthy owners who love buying NZ horses aernt around anymore - then the WA scene becomes the SA scene very quickly 

    They will never do this - but if you want a strong industry - built on a sound base ( vibrant breeding industry ) then what you would do  - is have each year - 10 $30000 2 year old races for WA bred horses only- and 10 30k races for both 3 and 4 year old WA bred horses only - a Sires Stakes system like Vic have got - and NSW ( had in days gone by )

    That money has to come from somewhere - well i would take it out of races that both  Bond and Hall dominate with their Kiwi horses - they would both sing like canaries but who cares . I have got nothing against either  of them - but if both sets of owners of those 2 stables said one day - look we are sick of the Trots - we are going to the gallops then i would be ecstatic 

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    No doubt your field selection for your grand final  shouldn't be done behind closed doors.-----nearly as silly as the  A.F.L  announcing that, we at the eleventh hour-----,the grand final will not between the two teams A,B, that rightfully earn't there spots------because the team that ran 4th D has the best win% in the comp.at the MCG.---and we will replace B because of a inferior win% at m.c.g.

    No way in this world prior to acceptance time that the field .for a pacing cup.in order .shouldn't be available to all & sundry. whether there be 20 or 30 acceptances.   With nominations to close 3-4 weeks prior.

    Surely this new you  beaut system doesn't allow for owners to feel gutted, when there horses have been left out, ------Now we have these owners?  making statements based on what they envisage to be right,regards- there horse been in and other reasons why such and such shouldn't be in.

    Why can't we have a points formula based on  the number of nominations-----


     SAY WE HAVE 20 NOMS.  Sliding scale  20pts down to 1pt. in each section.

              1.Total dollars earnt.      2. most wins.                3.most distance wins 2500+.
              4.G.P.wins                  . 5. Dollars L/5.                 6.Form last 5, pts(5,4,3,2,1.) 
              7.Group 1,2,3,wins and placings.from there threeyearold season-up.
              8.mile rate orders at 1600-2400m-----2400-3200 ran by each individual horse.

    Surely it would be clear to all who should be in.------ top 12  point scorers
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts

    To be honest who cares. Bond having 7 runners takes all the interest out for me. To throw in an unproven mare and an unsound horse as last two entries shows me how incompetent RWWA are. There’s a reason bond hasn’t won a pacing cup, but RWWA trying to make it a certainty here. That mare will be looking for an oxygen mask at the 600. Fastest career mile rate of 1.55 over all distance. Please they went 1.54 last week over 2500. She may look fast against the mares she won’t be able to cross early get caught in no man’s land and be the first horse beaten. I think she is about 35 in order of entry think GGG would have acquitted herself better and at least she won the group 1 mares race and would have earned her place not been gifted it.


    Even without snicko and hotspot you make a compelling argument @widenoball
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    edited January 2020
    STG, think that might not be workable. With all the 4 year old group 1 cash around prior to the cup, basing it on prizemoney earned would turn it into a 4 year old race with $200,000 Nuggets blousing out the fast class $25,000 Friday night feature race in terms of win dollars or dollars last 5 etc.

    I think Heats and final solve all the issues of field selection but someone much wiser and knowledgeable than us participants binned that idea and replaced it with preludes (a less transparent system than heats but still far better than just a "selection panel", which has replaced the previously satisfactory arrangement of an actual handicapper) and now it seems, based on this years goings on with the Christmas Gift and the Cup, preludes have also been flushed down the gurgler.
    Think back to heats and finals of the Slipper, the Derby, the Oaks, Easter Handicap, Christmas Gift, Christmas Handicap, Pacing Cup....a promotable concept with a built in excitement/anticipation factor for participants and followers, and zero argument about who gets in. Get the qualifying points from your heat finish (es), top 12 make it, next two are emergencies and the rest go around in a consolation (a concept that has also seemingly been guillotined). Simples, it ain't rocket science. What we have now is ongoing, never ending stable rage, pitting participant against participant, and frustrated, understandable social media assasination of officialdom resulting in RWWA's coffers being swelled with fine money.
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    560 posts
    Pretty sure Vampiro will be going forward and any of the stablemates will be happy to let him go if he doesn't clear them.

    Guaranteed a genuine tempo and OJJ and GS will be on the fence.

    I wouldn't be hunting Mighty Conqueror into the 1st bend at speed, where he has galloped before.



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  • WidenoballWidenoball    7 posts
    Let’s be honest. If they let the mare cross they have a horse questionably not up this class in front of 2 of their runners. Not even Bond is that stupid but as I said earlier he has never won a pacing cup so who knows. If anything crosses it has to be a horse that will 100% be kicking hard down the back and straight looking to win and if not allowing other horses run. Vampiro seems the logical horse on his last 2 runs to me. Mighty conqueror I agree is a great horse but been galloping and unsound I doubt whatever problem that kept him out of the freo cup is gone now. For me big lay. I think questionable got in on recent form and soundness not on ability. Heard on the radio this morning the mares start was justified as had nominated for a big race ( I think fillies and mares ) and stable declared it has the ability. I’m sorry that’s not a reason to get a start. It’s easy to nominate and declare ability it’s completely different to prove it. I believe the horse had not raced the company, had not run the times and having never been out of mares company did not deserve to have a crack at this race as its first attempt at open class. Owners of horses such as Convert 2nd bunbury cup and great form and times since that run and others that have raced and proven at the class regardless of opinion of ability have proven they deserve their chance at a big race. I can’t see how they can compare a horse who has never raced this class and avoided 50% of the racing population (males) and 100% of this field ( FFA horses ) running slow time can be considered comparable form?? I’m left scratching my head.

    After that for me as long as bond doesn’t cook his own race I think vampiro will there for a long way and my pick galactic star storming home will win.

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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Throwing it out there and expecting Backlash from it but if you terminated all 2 yo racing
    What extra funding would this contribute to O/All prize money for 3 & 4 yo West Bred Racing?
    2yo trials only allowed with min 12 S. Start Trials before commencement of racing as 3 yo.
    Would this Create a higher number of Horses racing as not racing as 2 yo would alleviate injury
    potential due to immaturity? ( Better Animal Health Management Practice)
    Horses not being rushed thus would be better educated & learn how to stand for S.S races.
    If Horse doesn’t have gate speed at least it would give the owner opportunity to recoup investment
    in becoming a good stand Horse.
    Now I know who in their right mind would subscribe to paying an extra year of fees without return
    from racing but isn’t it the same scenario for the owner when the trainer says your horse is sore we have to spell the horse or this horse isn’t ready to race as a 2yo.
    In regards to the top stables they lift the whole industry standard to compete with them you have
    to lift your game it’s a simple as that don’t fear them aspire to beat them.
    Rich Owners don’t just turn up to your door they see , hear how you conduct yourself and
    people will tell them of how you are to deal with . ( Reputation is all you have)
    They’re successful because they’re professional and business savvy and embrace their
    owners not treating them as a commodity which is discarded after 1 bad horse or treating
    them with disdain no matter how ignorant their question to you may be.
    From what I know our top trainers are self made no silver spoon trainers perhaps others should
    study up on their business models and how modifying their systems can be of use to improve
    your own Training / Business systems .
  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    I know what’s this got to do with Pacing Cup Apology wrong subject matter.
  • WidenoballWidenoball    7 posts
    I don’t have a problem with big trainers. If there horses deserve runs they should get runs. But they shouldn’t get horses into races because they think they are good enough?? The problem is if they don’t put them in they spit the chewy so the powers that be just do as they ask.... G Hall definately self made in the industry. Others not so sure. I believe money made somewhere else to fund it but yes some loyal owners. I think all anyone asks is when they have a runner who’s qualified above a big stable they get the run they deserve. Not a Wild card as mentioned above to a bloke who already has 6 horses in the race. El Jacko already questionable then a wild card entry to a mare because he thinks it’s good... I question how do the selectors know bonds opinion of the horse... seems social media has played a big part in this mare getting a start. Do all owners and trainers now need to employ advertising experts now to get a start?
  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts

    To be honest who cares. Bond having 7 runners takes all the interest out for me. To throw in an unproven mare and an unsound horse as last two entries shows me how incompetent RWWA are. There’s a reason bond hasn’t won a pacing cup, but RWWA trying to make it a certainty here. That mare will be looking for an oxygen mask at the 600. Fastest career mile rate of 1.55 over all distance. Please they went 1.54 last week over 2500. She may look fast against the mares she won’t be able to cross early get caught in no man’s land and be the first horse beaten. I think she is about 35 in order of entry think GGG would have acquitted herself better and at least she won the group 1 mares race and would have earned her place not been gifted it.




    Hasn’t Alfie Romeo beaten GGG fair and square on quite a few occasions? I may be wrong but the only time GGG has beaten her was in the mares classic where she drew barrier one and had a very easy opening lap while the other mare came from the outside of the second line to sit outside her and not get beaten that far. Don’t get me wrong I don’t believe either mare should be in the race through not having raced in the FFAs in the lead up but just can’t get over these people on the GGG bandwagon, she’s a nice mare but would get flogged against the boys

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Jay Jay  the four year-olds would score high in that section dollars L5  ---but overall money earnt the advantage you would think then switches to the older horses on overall stakes ----have,had a look at the first four sections points ranging from 53pts down to 9pts  

    Definitley section 3 would need revisting re- points   allocation re wins trips greater then 2600m. only two winners our jimmy Johnstone 3. mighty conqueror 1.----Galatic Star 7 attempts no wins but inters heat & 2 finals in the washup-so not a fair assessment.of his true staying ability. in this field.,but in the washup, don't think he would miss the cut.anyway.

    To work. 5,6,7,8 would take a while.
  • WidenoballWidenoball    7 posts
    I 100% agree about both mares. My point was that the horse has been put in on a trainers opinion. Nothing else. Romeo ran 5th two starts ago in a field that could be considered an ok mares race. Not a strong race in ok mares time. Over 2100 rarely is a race run that slow in FFA. I believe went to breeze went 1.56.1 and was first horse beaten. A horse like convert Denario ran second in Bunbury cup and talking breeze went 155.2 in a group 2 beaten a half head to eloquent Mach. There are people that think he shouldn’t get a start well answer me if they think he can’t win how possibly can that mare win. I’d say to expect big backlash to RWWA if that mare does what I think it will and possibly cause problems for other runners and not run this race out as it doesn’t have the ability to do so. And rightfully so.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Probably discarding I'm Full Of Ecuses in all this, consistently raced well in open class 1st and 2nd last two, won 4 country cups. Not sure if he was nominated but you would have to think so.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    An aside but Ernie has had his pencil nice and sharp all week as The West has finally afforded some space to Harness Racing. Good to see.
    Don't want to denigrate anyone's horse but must say that Convert Denario would not have been out of place at all and can understand the frustration and anger.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,718 posts
    edited January 2020

    My look at the program. Negative to start, it doesn't look a great one for me, I'm not a fan of these 9 off the front no back line races, doesn't lend itself to competitive racing IMO but hey something's going to win them.

    R1: I'll be backing No2 Back To The Beach EW. Would think Clarenden Hustler pops straight on to Bob Wheels back. I'm hoping that Deni pushes through with Back To The Beach to stay in front of I'm Batman and Fake News then possibly get some cover on James Butt who I thought looked fantastic first up and ran to it. Even if she is in the breeze on Back To The Beach I'd be happy, just want her to keep her rivals behind her. EQ:1,3,6,7,8.

    R2: Can't go past No1 Ocean Ridge. I'm not a massive rap for the horse but in a race with no pressure he can come home in 55 so how can they beat him? Maybe Iceenothink driven forward against his pattern can give him a run for his money. I have 3 horses black booked in this event but they all want something easier with a draw. EQ:1.

    R3: No confidence in this one. I will tip Saleahs Comand to run them down after sitting just off them. Hopefully Mon Lillies charges early and makes it interesting. EQ:1,2,3.

    R4: Culpeka is flying and has to be the on top selection but he does look to me to be a horse with a few quirks, I don't think I'd want to be backing him in any race @$1.28. I will be having something small EW on No 10 Rum Delight. 3 back the pegs, Jnr on getting out around that 20/1 range i'm happy to have a throw at the stumps. The Sonia Zucchiatti pair Ideal Investment and Leftrightgoodnight are well worth throwing in novelties at the prices, her horses are all racing well. EQ:4,10. 100% for $30.

    R5: Talktomeurmattjesty is another quirky horse from the Howlett stable. Last run was fantastic, won in super quick time the start prior, looks the winner but you are brave if you are happy to take the odds on quote. Plenty of good form in it, if you were going to steer around him in the QD you could nearly go field. I'm going to leave the quad alone and have a very small 1w/4plc type bet on Roman Aviator. Might be the first horse beaten but liked his last run and can be a sleeper just behind them at the cricket score odds.

    R6: I'm going for Vampiro. Have had a slight rethink on my early thoughts. Initially thought Our Alfie Romeo crossed Our Jimmy Johnstone then handed up to Mighty Conqueror. However with him being a risk of breaking that could potentially knock out 4 of the Bond runners in one fell swoop so I think they will be happy for him to stay in the moving line and show what he's got. So that opens it up for Vampiro to charge over. He will run them along a bit no doubt as this will make it hard for anything off the pegs. He can just keep running plus I want CD Brown to win the race! I think Voaky will be smart enough to know the pegs are the place to be and shoot Vultin Tin straight over. So for me that makes the 1,3,9,10,12 the only top 3 chances and the numbers I will be playing with the novelties. Could be completely wrong but that's the way I'm seeing it.

    R7: Chasing a bit of value here with No10 Bettorgrinanbarit. Watching its last win (which granted was a lifetime ago) I just loved the way she exploded off the pegs run. She is a chance to be leaders back here or at worst 3 back the pegs, first up no trial she is a chance to repeat that effort, stable is flying, worth a few shekels. Not a race for mares that savage the line so worth looking away from the top end of the market IMO.

    R8: Bloody good stand this. No3 Bettor Pack It has exploded away from her two stands down at Albany. She is the one for the night that I will be betting up on. If she doesn't win it I hope Aussie Delight does. Always had a soft spot for this guy, he looked great returning from a long break for Garry Butler and ran accordingly first up, hard to win from 20m but is one of about 10 winning chances in the race.

    R9: Tyler Brett leads and wins, simple. Thought the multi him and Ocean Ridge @bet365 prices of $1.55 into $1.60 for $2.48 was good shopping if you had access to it.

    R10: As Happy As Larry. Robbie Williams drove to beat the horses outside him last week and forgot about those sitting behind him. With Theo Aviator outside him does that happen again and open it up for the 1,2,10. Time will tell. At the prices I'd be happy to have a few dollars on You Gotta Have Faith. Soft trip, looks a horse that will love the distance, Jnr driving on a big night. Ticks a few boxes.

    R11: When the fields came out I was hoping to get around 30/1 on Nitro Lad and have a bit of a play but that just doesn't happen anymore from barrier 1 regardless of form. Machlani has the runs on the board, I think it will lead, I also think it is a far superior horse when driven with a sit but has to be my on topper. A decent drift For Nitro and I might sit up and have a few dollars on.


    Good luck all.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    For interest sake only I  am having a trifecta Shockwave, Handsandwheels , Vultan Tin all ways and a f/f with those three and field for fourth.

    Purely based on a preference for Dennis Lillee over Richard Hadlee

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    204 posts
    If bondy doesn’t win will it be considered there may be a cups curse.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    Race 1- Fake News
    Race 2- Ocean Ridge
    Race 3- Braeview Bondi
    Race 4- Culpeka
    Race 5- Im Full Of Excuses
    Race 6- Vampiro
    Race 7- American Tour
    Race 8- Jimmy Mack
    Race 9- Tyler Brett
    Race 10- Theo Aviator
    Race 11- Machlani
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Race 1 James Butt can see some early speed in thi one.
    Race 2 Bee Seventeen unlucky last week, drawn to get good run at good odds
    Race 3 Bettor Be Livley chased home much stronger company last start will just need some luck ew.
    Race 4 Culpeka, ew Free To Air.
    Race 5 Talktome leads and wins, 10 horse gets nice run and could tip them all out.
    Race 6 Bill Haley simply because he is the only one drawn to get a soft run and kick over the eventual leader.
    Race 7 Salacious Gossip in a raffle.
    Race 8 Burning Shadows e/w should lead and give some cheek
    Race 9 Joe With The Flow ew if 1 holds up should be on Tyler Brett's back for one last crack at them.
    Race 10 Happy Larry unlucky last week deserved to win, don't be surprised Baptism Of Fire at long odds for the place
    Race 11 Pierre Whitby , place at good odds Quincy Brogden.
    Good luck all.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Hoping for Bondy to win with whoever---------Just imagine all the coat-tuggers, and urgers, ,hanging around the dunnies at the bird cage,asking------- ,anyone heard anything is our jimmy johnstone  going to hold, to baby sit -galactic star, or is brownie going to zap them & then bondy has three of his better chances  occupying the marker line for 2900m.

    Abbys Ace---- same wouldn't send the m.conqueror forward just in case he skywalks ,Handsandwheels what ever the early burn throws up---with a ounce of luck he will lob a good spot. Can't see vultin tin having a impact--on his last couple.

    Without birdcage knowledge-----1.Vampiro  2.Handswheels 3. Our jimmy johnstone

    Bondy been in the game a long time----no positives he deserves it.


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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,275 posts
    For all the negativity around the final field I must say I cant remember a more even WA Cup for quite awhile.
    No doubt the injuries to champs like Chicago Bull, RocknRoll Lincoln & Soho Tribeca plus the 2 NSW Interstate visitors unable to get a flight over here has contributed to that but an intriguing race all the same, there is certainly no short priced stand out.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Too easy @cisco ...Robert The Bruce at Melton again gets the job done

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  • Browny123Browny123    97 posts
    You put the mock in bondy STG...got a swab now

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