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GP-17/1 WA Pacing Cup (Group 1)

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts

    stg, your three tips on the race ran 2nd, 3rd, 4th - that's more than a pass mark - first four dividend paid well over 3k.

    Riders was a good day--driftwood girl 10s & watto's revenge 2.50.but t/day pikey just rammed me with roughend of a pineapple 6 fav.nos in.relying on pike  on alimentira for 7. paid out on 6---nine number card divie x 3 cancel the soup.kitchen.

    See stewards report only one of vampiro hopple pins didn't release---off/side but he was fined 500 for drifting up the track.---not sure if that would contribute----trying to remember name of horse that raced with hopple length four holes different from one hopple to the other.----but that was offside longer then n/side. was a johnsons horse years ago.- was-very good horse too.

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  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    166 posts

    Hoping for Bondy to win with whoever---------Just imagine all the coat-tuggers, and urgers, ,hanging around the dunnies at the bird cage,asking------- ,anyone heard anything is our jimmy johnstone  going to hold, to baby sit -galactic star, or is brownie going to zap them & then bondy has three of his better chances  occupying the marker line for 2900m.

    Abbys Ace---- same wouldn't send the m.conqueror forward just in case he skywalks ,Handsandwheels what ever the early burn throws up---with a ounce of luck he will lob a good spot. Can't see vultin tin having a impact--on his last couple.

    Without birdcage knowledge-----1.Vampiro  2.Handswheels 3. Our jimmy johnstone

    Bondy been in the game a long time----no positives he deserves it.


    you were saying , 




    Arsenic, hardly anything to be up in arms about. So many trainers have been done with this due to pine posts. Fine and sent on their way just like everyone else who come under this charge.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts


    trying to remember name of horse that raced with hopple length four holes different from one hopple to the other.----but that was offside longer then n/side. was a johnsons horse years ago.- was-very good horse too.
    Horse was Mintalla STG.....they (Pop) copped 12 months at one stage after it ran an "unlucky" 4th coming off a picket fence of wins.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Nothing to do with Bondy, I just find it amazing how many horses have decided to include treated pine logs as part of their diet before race day.
    Particularly in WA.

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  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    277 posts

    Hoping for Bondy to win with whoever---------Just imagine all the coat-tuggers, and urgers, ,hanging around the dunnies at the bird cage,asking------- ,anyone heard anything is our jimmy johnstone  going to hold, to baby sit -galactic star, or is brownie going to zap them & then bondy has three of his better chances  occupying the marker line for 2900m.

    Abbys Ace---- same wouldn't send the m.conqueror forward just in case he skywalks ,Handsandwheels what ever the early burn throws up---with a ounce of luck he will lob a good spot. Can't see vultin tin having a impact--on his last couple.

    Without birdcage knowledge-----1.Vampiro  2.Handswheels 3. Our jimmy johnstone

    Bondy been in the game a long time----no positives he deserves it.


    you were saying , 




    Arsenic, hardly anything to be up in arms about. So many trainers have been done with this due to pine posts. Fine and sent on their way just like everyone else who come under this charge.
    Yep fine and disqualified from race ,not up in arms about it quite common as you say ,just made comment as it came up in previous post that they hadn’t had a positive ,now they have even if it is viewed as minor infraction 

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    JayJay said:


    trying to remember name of horse that raced with hopple length four holes different from one hopple to the other.----but that was offside longer then n/side. was a johnsons horse years ago.- was-very good horse too.
    Horse was Mintalla STG.....they (Pop) copped 12 months at one stage after it ran an "unlucky" 4th coming off a picket fence of wins.
    Unbelievable Jay Jay you would be the only person in Australia who would get that name,it came to me about 2am....Was told the Mintalla story  40-45 years ago correct me if I am wrong
    It started racing in Kalgoorlie, them days your hopple measurements were  lodged at the track where you commenced racing he won his first 10? in a row, he went to town had a look see,                                                                                                                                                                Copped 12 months for  the horse to continue racing, he had to go to public auction at midland think owners name was craven? ----So was brought by other owners he went from stable to stable no-one could get him to pace,his hopple measurement page had went missing,after a few years they finally managed to get the horse back  and won a few in row and he then broke down.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    You would want Jay Jay to cop a harness racing question for the $1mill if he was on Eddies quiz show :-B $-)

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Norm Craven was the owner/breeder STG...you might remember Cravens Chemist shop underneath the Perth Town Hall...or Cravens Pharmacy...it may still be there even though old Norm died in the 1960's. A "colourful" racing identity was Norm Craven....started the Chemist shop even though he was not a chemist, got sprung for it after 5 years and henceforth employed a qualified chemist to dispense the goods. His first wife died of strychnine (I think?) poisoning (self administered)....not a good look for an unlicensed pharmacist but horsewise, Craven was a pioneer of breeding in WA. He bred hundreds of individual winners from his stud in Serpentine and after education, leased most of them out. I think Norm Crossman of Yerrilla Court and Richmond Raceway track curator fame was one of his trainers way back. He later relocated his "Kentucky Stud Farm" to Guildford where the Rosehill Country Club was located.
    Mintalla (1945) was by Wilver Mint and was the older brother of Royal Shadow (1946) (by Royal Step), both bred by Craven. Royal Shadow was a champ and Mintalla won 18 races including the once important "Caris Cup" up at Kalgoorlie in 1952, both raced by Pop Johnson. Just out of interest, the dam was Walidious who was by the famous Walla Walla of "further back than Walla Walla" fame.
    It was hard to track down who actually owned a lot of the horses that Craven bred due to leasing arrangements....he did get sprung by the Taxation Department for not declaring income from leased horses at one stage but a lot of them were trained by the Johnsons. I had a number of chats with Max about the "in"famous Mr Craven back in the 70's in the Northam Trotting Club Diing Room. You know Max, he didn't give much away and you had to work your way around the subtle references and dry humour but suffice to say Mr Craven was no saint!!! I just wish I had owned a tape recorder back then, one of my most favourite persons ever was old Max, rolled gold.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts

    Nothing to do with Bondy, I just find it amazing how many horses have decided to include treated pine logs as part of their diet before race day.
    Particularly in WA.

    Unfortunate how this has unfolded in the last five years Australian-wide,Lot of australias top trainers,have had a unnecessary black mark,againest there name . I for one always believe its a privilege to be issued with a license not a right.so after two strikes, for disq.that result's in 12 or months you should never be relicensed----my take.

    Back to the Arensic in 2015 RASL acquired a new machine for the testing of cobalt, which prevented the need for samples to be sent overseas or interstate for testing, which then allowed for the testing of other metals including arsenic to be done.

     By the end of 2016 at least 10 Victorian trainers were under investigation, for the allowable arsenic threshold limit been breached, including leading trainer Emma Stewart who had presented 3,700 horses to race with her rap sheet having one previous incident 2006 for what I don'tknow.her fine was$250.--------- pine treated cca sawdust--plus cca treated timber..

    But what has confused quite a few old trainers that had used arsenic based tonic's robacyl-- jourocyl  nux-vomica --- for years purely to help there horses appetite and coat appearance and had been swabbed and all clear for 30-40 years who still in them days were at risk if they started there horses example 3 times in a week and used  the tonic as a recoverer tool which then took them over  the allowable limit.------but the new machine is far more accurate.

    We discussed this back in 2016, when Victorians  faced the music.---maybe why bondys hair went grey-- Jay Jay think he may have wrote something on it. They were still doing testing on the difference between organic and inorganic forms-- beyond me.

    This new machine can pick whether you have had porridge or nux vomica, meant nutri-grain.

    Bondy won a pacing cup fine 500.plus extra 250 import tax on mighty conqueror.


  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts

    You would want Jay Jay to cop a harness racing question for the $1mill if he was on Eddies quiz show :-B $-)

    CURMUDGEON    love it to be w.a harness and w.a football  Jay Jay-----Village Kid.  they would be odds-on.-----even put the coconuts on the line

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Alan Parker couldn't start he was doing the questions... that was close
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Analysis can distinguish, due to different end point metabolites (by products of ingestion), between "pine post CCR ingestion" and the direct administration of arsenic based tonics like Nux Vomica which, in the 60's and 70's (and probably prior to that) was on every decent trainers food shelf, certainly in my experience. It can do that as the compounds that contain the arsenic are very different. It is not like someone feeds the horse a quantity of pure arsenic (which would be fatal), they are compounds/salts that contain arsenic. Compare it to fertilising with for example the trace  element copper....you don't sprinkle metallic copper filings through the paddock, you would apply small quantities of copper sulfate in your fertiliser (CuSO4) which obviously contains copper at about 40% by weight.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Alan would have Eddie's cash in the pocket and be in the Cab back to the hotel before any of us even got an invite....he could answer the question before Eddie even thought about asking it, clearly the king of all harness knowledge. Can't wait for his book on the history of Trotting in WA, which is on his list of New year resolutions for 2020...sorry for dropping him in it but he told me himself. It will be some read.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Notice a lot people jump between the two systems to suit there argument now the final field for pacing cup---would that have been different with the use of  nr  ratings as the tool.
  • BetonmeBetonme    209 posts
    paraletic said:

    Bad look for the sport shaking hands 50m past the post. Wont get a cent of mine while they have horses in a field....

    have heard a few people mentioning this. I think if wasn't all "team" fist pumping, then would have looked alright, but def having the element of all stablemates made it look not so great imo. 

    Dylan is a great guy, and I was very happy to see him win it. 

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Been bringing up for quite a few years regard how aussies were tricked into the unsafe yank carts.When you see two of our best drivers lock wheels in our biggest race,there's no worse look, plus people that had there hard earned on shockwave and some-once a year punters that bet in only feature races, goes along way to keeping them punting.

    Not only that as freodockers has mentioned numerous horses contacting the sulkies with there hind legs and take off---- drivers having no-control.

    Finally AHRR have introduced a new rule----170(3) -----The prevalence of a horse contacting the sulky with its hind legs has increased significantly with the use of American style sulkies .This occurrence can have a detrimental effect on a horses performance.--------so nothing sinster just Victorians are going to do something about it because its another huge problem these  8-10k yank carts,have introduced-------- when will we ever learn.  
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Maybe the patrons are voting with their feet.....that was a pathetic crowd for a Pacing Cup Night, absolutely terrible.

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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    I was there it was sad to see and explain to others with me .
    It’s amazing how the buzz & excitement from the Inters has vanished.
    What’s concerns me is the quiet from the RWWA / WATA hopefully they’re going to spring
    a good surprise shortly , the industry could do with a shot of positivity.
    I’m a Optimist.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,719 posts
    JayJay said:

    Maybe the patrons are voting with their feet.....that was a pathetic crowd for a Pacing Cup Night, absolutely terrible.

    JayJay said:

    Maybe the patrons are voting with their feet.....that was a pathetic crowd for a Pacing Cup Night, absolutely terrible.




    It needs a rejig to give it a grand final feel night. Nights of thunder heats should have been the week before. Maybe a feature 3yr old race.

    Some advertising wouldn’t go a stray so someone other than those of us rusted on new it was actually a thing.

    I was thinking recently about how they use to do the free passes on a regular basis in the Local rags. Not for Cup night but something like that, pick a few suburbs every week and give them free passes and maybe even some sort of voucher to actually get people to go along and introduce them to the sport
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    Realising it's run at just before 8 o'clock to attract eastern states audience/turnover - but that's way too early - want a good build up into the race - those feature races use to be run at 9.30ish to 9.45....if you want to attract more on track make it a proper retro Gloucester Park Pacing Cup evening, if you want the eastern states to watch and invest keep it at just before 8pm.

    8 o'clock start time for a Pacing Cup - many years ago race 1 had barely been run.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Charging people to get on course so you can take more money off them via food, drinks and betting is a hopeless philosophy. Hit the shopping centres, the sports clubs, hand out free passes (even if it is already free), $5 betting vouchers, do something.....hit Freo up with the newly rejigged  STANDING START HANDICAP Fremantle Cup, bring back heats....it's dead as a maggot and I haven't got anyone to argue with. Generally I'm praiseworthy of the food but whatever the roast was on Friday night, you could re-sole your boots with it. The busiest place on course is the room where you get the race numbers. All I hear is it hard to compete with the entertainment dollar.....thats true, it is but do something, anything. Can't imagine charging punters to enter the Casino would be a winning marketing move.
  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    Was walking the dog home, sun still shining and thought better hurry up mate, we are going to miss the Pacing Cup, goodness gracious on a Friday evening that's way too early to run WA's biggest race.

    Eastern states - there's no representation ( another glaring weakness ) bugger them, turnover - well sometimes you have to give a little to gain alot.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    The NZ horse's from across the ditch managed to get to the Ballarat Cup to trifecta it. We can't get one eastern states horse to run in a Pacing Cup.
    Exactly the same bunch of horses will be running in the next Free For All...just saying.

    Horse's getting ready to come out onto the track to run in a Pacing Cup when the suns still shining on a perfect Perth's summer night - it's our biggest race - cmmmmmmon. Let the Perth public come down in the night time and enjoy WA's biggest race - just like they use to.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    I have a suggestion, rename Gloucester Park.
    We could call it Globe Derby because that's the direction it's heading in.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Try this every second friday....gives quinella and first four punters half a chance



    https://www.facebook.com/groups/152439061981068/wp/630274177782690/ :D
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    JayJay said:

    Charging people to get on course so you can take more money off them via food, drinks and betting is a hopeless philosophy. Hit the shopping centres, the sports clubs, hand out free passes (even if it is already free), $5 betting vouchers, do something.....hit Freo up with the newly rejigged  STANDING START HANDICAP Fremantle Cup, bring back heats....it's dead as a maggot and I haven't got anyone to argue with. Generally I'm praiseworthy of the food but whatever the roast was on Friday night, you could re-sole your boots with it. The busiest place on course is the room where you get the race numbers. All I hear is it hard to compete with the entertainment dollar.....thats true, it is but do something, anything. Can't imagine charging punters to enter the Casino would be a winning marketing move.

    That sounds like train food to me Jay Jay - which is notoriously shocking

    Years ago i had quite a few trips on that Indian Pacific -the food it was that bad - i ended up having Cherry Ripes and Coke for Breakfast Lunch and Tea
    .
    I will never forget one trip their - the loud speaker came over " The Buffet/Dining Car is now open for service - please form an orderly queue in car 5 ( or whatever ) - well quickly there was a lineup of about 20-30 people - everyone looking forward to something to eat

    There was a hot bain marie at the front left with 2 train people serving - and people who had been served would sit on the left sided tables . The 1st bloke who had been served - a young bloke in a singlet - he got his fork - and stabbed this old piece of beef - and held it up in the air - and in a clear deep voice said - " This is the biggest heap of shiit ive ever paid $15 for in all my life " - well there was suddenly no queue anymore 
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Have to say Friday Night was an aberration, food is generally up to the mark since they took over the catering and operated from on site kitchens, been a revelation....but Friday night was terrible.
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    560 posts
    It was a FFA field that runs on nearly every Friday night.

    An average field will only attract an average crowd.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Same horses attracted a bigger crowd Freo Cup Night? Advertising the WA Pacing Cup on TAB radio preaching to the already rusted on 80 harness tragics that go anyway?

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,809 posts
    edited January 2020
    Can understand you blokes that own them, don't want any here and if owned a good one I'd be like that too.

    However - eastern states reps - Perth Cup - zero. WA Pacing Cup - zero. The two biggest traditional races on the WA Racing/Pacing calendar and can't get a solitary one. Pilot's strike ? Planes don't come to Perth ? Just too hard in 2020 ?

    The Ballarat Cup, the Kiwis came and put the locals to the sword - it's called healthy competition. If they weren't at Ballarat three Aussies would've run the trifecta with Sky telling us how wonderful they are - when in actual fact their average at best and a mile behind the Kiwis.

    As far as Sky and Adam Hamilton being here - good judge and does a great presentation, but what was the point ? To see exactly the same Free For All horses going around every week/fortnight.

    Their competitive and there's a different winner ( look out when Galactic Star gets an ounce of luck ) every time so that's one good thing.

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