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Slow Sectionals Policy

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    No, not at all, barking up the wrong tree.....can't you read?   ......It was my understanding he would not be able to draw from the get go, it was just the wrong info that was provided that suggested he could still draw.

    Still think there is an issue with opportunities for junior drivers.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    JayJay said:

    Yes, I phoned RWWA this morning, after searching unsuccessfully through the 32 pages of Racing Policy for some reference to a difference between a single level race (such as Rakasinc's L10) and a "dual level race such as the L3/L4 at Northam. I agree, Ocean Beach had to draw gate 7 (as I thought initially) but I was thrown when told he was put in with all the other L4's barrier draw wise.  

    It offers little incentive for concession drivers who will always cop the worst draws and it offers little incentive for owners to utilise concession drivers.



    tend to partially agree

    agree in so much as I think a horse using a claim to get into the race should be able to draw with the dropped down level - ie Rakasinc probably should draw with the level 10 horses and Ocean Beach probably  should have been able to draw with level 4 horses

    what used happen was that when a race was C3/C4 pref on C then nearly all the C4 horses had concession drivers so they had a chance of drawing barrier 1 - that might be good for concession drivers but is not so good for the  non concession drivers who are in the industry long term and are left sitting on the sidelines watching  - for the concession drivers that are looking to be  long term in the industry the concessions work for them for approx. five years then against them after that

    my thinking is that the middle ground should be considered in that where a horse gets into a race with a concession it draws with those one level below but at all other times the concession doesn't lower the horses level

    eg ocean Beach in a L3/4 would draw as a level 4 but a level 4 horse with a concession driver wouldn't draw as a level 3 - the level 3 horses would draw the best draws


  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts
    JayJay said:

    No, not at all, barking up the wrong tree.....can't you read?   ......It was my understanding he would not be able to draw from the get go, it was just the wrong info that was provided that suggested he could still draw.

    Still think there is an issue with opportunities for junior drivers.



    Yeah the problem is that it isn’t RBD it’s handicapped which is what you’ve been calling for
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    Well i will get the  thread back on topic - honestly Handicapping on this forum is done to death - its like Azaleas and Rhododendrons in an English Forrest - they just take over and swamp everything 

    In Vic - 1st offence $100 2nd offence $200 3rd offence $300 - i think that is in a time period of a month

    In NSW - up to 2nds ( over limit ) $100 2-3 seconds $200 3-4 sec $300 4sec -upw $400

    Qld - up to 2nds $150 2-3 sec $200 

    Those two races at Narrogin  - where they exceeded 34 seconds in NSW and QLD they would get pinged  $200 in and rightfully so 
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Minimal sectional time for Narrogin is 33 seconds Marko.

    As far as handicapping goes, you are obviously not racing or paying up for a scrubber or two under this jurisdiction and are not trying to stay involved as an owner and supporter of the industry. The solution  for you is easy, just ignore the thread.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts
    JayJay said:

    Minimal sectional time for Narrogin is 33 seconds Marko.

    As far as handicapping goes, you are obviously not racing or paying up for a scrubber or two under this jurisdiction and are not trying to stay involved as an owner and supporter of the industry. The solution  for you is easy, just ignore the thread.



    Training a team of 8 actually, mostly scrubbers still prefer RBD racing
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    JayJay said:

    Minimal sectional time for Narrogin is 33 seconds Marko.

    As far as handicapping goes, you are obviously not racing or paying up for a scrubber or two under this jurisdiction and are not trying to stay involved as an owner and supporter of the industry. The solution  for you is easy, just ignore the thread.
    Well it should be 32 - why even bother having it at 33 - what a joke

    But i do agree with your point - if you go outside the required sectional - and win you get fined - where as if you knock up and run nowhere - you dont get fined - which is poor policy
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts

    JayJay said:

    Minimal sectional time for Narrogin is 33 seconds Marko.

    As far as handicapping goes, you are obviously not racing or paying up for a scrubber or two under this jurisdiction and are not trying to stay involved as an owner and supporter of the industry. The solution  for you is easy, just ignore the thread.



    Training a team of 8 actually, mostly scrubbers still prefer RBD racing
    Aware of that, and good for you ....but handicap comment was response to Marko, not you.

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Where you based Rocket if you don’t mind me asking
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    Where you based Rocket if you don’t mind me asking




    Serpentine
  • Noticed the first sectionals at Wagin were very slow on Friday with several drivers fined and the second sections much quicker in all races.

    At these outer country tracks, how do we know the markers are 100% correct and being timed correctly?

    Costing drivers plenty of money if they are wrong and some of the discrepancies on first and second quarter are quite bizarre...
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    The short answer is without electronic timing, we don't.....the hand timing would be very open to challenge....... "test drive" a few video replays against the published times.....I did the exercise and much as I would like to believe that one of my horses is a "track record" holder, he isn't. After multiple timings, I couldn't clock him within 3 seconds of the "official" gross time. I think the costs involved in appealing are off putting, and as I said previously, it is a tax on benevolent owners who in the main will be stumping up the cash. If it were a speeding fine that was manually timed by a citizen with a stop watch and a tape measure, I suggest it would be thrown out of court faster than a Palmer border challenge.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    We need mr. plod with a radar gun ,with all drivers wearing a ear piece.--- Voak your going to slow your are doing 30m.p.h. 13.3m a second  your running a 30 sec. quarter --speed it up voak. ha.ha..

    The stewards should have a sectional rule---that they can call on. Only time this year would have produced it was when lavara joe won the 5 horse race would have fined the other 4 drivers 500. 

    Because g.p. friday night supposedly to be our show case night.  Forget about sectionals in the country.--Without doing a check what year it was humerous situation  arrived when they went to put pegs in couldn't locate holes so sec.and his man got the posthole digger out put them where they thought , they belonged driver the next morning without moving reins was heading straight for a peg, they set 2 or 3  records. first few meetings, 

    Then one year after three meetings 50- tonnes of cracka dust was removed the times improved no end.-----Northam to the naked eye on 825m track good luck getting them quarters right. alot country clubs reliance on volunteers . But latest  g.p,s timing& technology could be installed after all tracks were surveyed.
     End of day drivers obligation, from the rules is to try and obtain their best finishing positions,with driving tactics being a key element--based on individual horses strengths and weakness,remmeber being in a horse about 35 years ago that trainer driver,said we have the slowest horse in the race, field of 6?, but we will step to the front, hope a couple gallop---  plus no-one takes me on-- a corner keeps appearing , then we become some hope ,well he won going 2.16. .

    Think poyser had a horse called acron blue that had breathing isssues he would let him drop out 3-5 lengths behind field. if he pushed him early it was gone a long way from home,Drivers don't need the add burden------But the fast class horses go quicker in trackwork,then some race nights. so if they don't run to a resonable standard time then penalize via prizemoney 2k that goes on to the next fast class race.as a bonus.what the bull loses one week he picks it up the next. 
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    edited November 2020
    As previously stated, simple solutions to complex problems rarely work. No fines at Northam last night, all first quarters within the limits, but a lot of limited horses (and owners) got whacked at Wagin racing for stakemoney so low that makes it almost pointless. Race 8 at Northam, the lead time was 47.4, an equivalent of of a 32.6 quarter, all sectionals after that surprisingly quick??....under the policy no action taken.....and nor should it have been. Hand timed, race won by a 7 year old that had never ever been placed, so with all respect, not a lot of quality in the field. Strong view is the policy can only be applied at tracks with electronic timing, that it needs some allowance for class rather than a blanket ruling and all other tracks need to be resurveyed before there is any justice in this poorly thought out policy.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    And yes, Acron Blue used to drop out alarmingly.....backed him one night, last race, started trying to organise a ride home, had done my shirt....whooshka....from nowhere, bolted in. Ended up somewhere in Northbridge about 3 in the morning. Early days, younger and stupider.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    JayJay said:

    The short answer is without electronic timing, we don't.....the hand timing would be very open to challenge....... "test drive" a few video replays against the published times.....I did the exercise and much as I would like to believe that one of my horses is a "track record" holder, he isn't. After multiple timings, I couldn't clock him within 3 seconds of the "official" gross time. I think the costs involved in appealing are off putting, and as I said previously, it is a tax on benevolent owners who in the main will be stumping up the cash. If it were a speeding fine that was manually timed by a citizen with a stop watch and a tape measure, I suggest it would be thrown out of court faster than a Palmer border challenge.



    we don't agree on much but agree that using hand timing is very suspect - have lost count of the number of times I have contacted RWWA over the last 10-15 years about incorrect sectionals and mile rates. mile rates that go down next to the horses name and appear in records that are relied on by punters, prospective buyers of racing horses and yearling buyers for years to come

    like your horse Wrongly Accused falsely held the track record at Narrogin for quite some time

    in this computerised era all tracks should have electronic timing

    JayJay likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,890 posts
    Talking about suspect times re qtrs - Blayney ( only a 760metre track ) takes the cake today 

    These are 2nd last qtrs of all races - 27  26.2 28.1 26 26.6 25.4 26 and 26

    JayJay likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
     They have clocked winning post to 400m mark which is only 360m--- hence add about 3 seconds 13.3metres a second when a horse is going a 2 minute bat. for the missing forty metres. 

    JayJay, Markovina likes this post.

  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    277 posts
    other ways slow sectionals can cost a trainer or owner is in qualifying trials when the lead horse fails to run them along enough for the trial to reach qualifying time
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Is anyone experiencing issues with country replays on there I phone of late.
    Can get GP no worries but country when hit the replay button has a line through it.
    Very annoying
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    277 posts

    Is anyone experiencing issues with country replays on there I phone of late.
    Can get GP no worries but country when hit the replay button has a line through it.
    Very annoying

    not working on mobile or Ipad but works on desktop i have found had to go to Tabtouch for replays recently on mobile 
  • JayJayJayJay    7,630 posts
    Firefox doesn't work for country, have to use Explorer. No issues on either with GP.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,788 posts
    Markovina said:

    Talking about suspect times re qtrs - Blayney ( only a 760metre track ) takes the cake today 


    These are 2nd last qtrs of all races - 27  26.2 28.1 26 26.6 25.4 26 and 26

     They have clocked winning post to 400m mark which is only 360m--- hence add about 3 seconds 13.3metres a second when a horse is going a 2 minute bat. for the missing forty metres. 

    LOVE THAT DAY- HOW Ironic the first winner was called Borrowed Time still shows he ran third quarter 25,4 
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