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  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    Trekking into $1.85 wow
  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    You're still taking evens which is unders [-X
  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    4,875 posts
    I know but can halve the bet that way..i agree and have all along it's risky he wins it but I don't want to be kicking myself later...
  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    I think RWWA really need to re-evaluate allowing lowly-rated horses to start in premium races going forward. Condor Heroes was always going to battle in the Winterbottom at WFA and its inclusion in the field contributed to the mess that took place in the straight. It resulted in several runners getting their chances completely taken away.

    Vicbitter, Ngawyni, thefalcon likes this post.

  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,667 posts
    That's probably Elite Street done and dusted here in WA on a regular basis. He certainly has come along way very quickly, have won his last 6 starts if you include the DQ end of last prep. How he got beaten at 1.45 second race start you have to wonder.

    As mentioned early here, got to 6.50 second favorite after towelling them last start in a 72+. Started $31 today! Why wouldn't you be a bookie?

    Elite Street only 3 runs into the prep, hopefully he turns up again soon, not sure much on the program now for highly rated sprinters though.

    His career reminds me a bit like Scenic Shot years ago from the same stable. He got beat about 1.30 at Pinjarra or Bunbury early on and then just started going bang and ultimately became the champ he was.


  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,667 posts
    Flanders said:

    I think RWWA really need to re-evaluate allowing lowly-rated horses to start in premium races going forward. Condor Heroes was always going to battle in the Winterbottom at WFA and its inclusion in the field contributed to the mess that took place in the straight. It resulted in several runners getting their chances completely taken away.




    Completely correct here. The G1 standard should be held high and if the race was an M100 then there would have been 7 runners. Unfortunately here the pool is very small and with Covid robbed the race of 3-4 ES horses maybe. In saying that winner was rated 82 and second "worst" of the lot. Either he won because of others bad luck or he is a quality animal. It highlights the issues of the rating system though.
  • Thats what happens when you ride for luck and go for those inside runs.. at least condor stuck to the rail as it weakened
  • TheSwooperTheSwooper    1,667 posts
    The winner went super. Stageman was a bit stiff again. He made his choice early to stick to the rail and so was totally reliant on luck. His finish is probably a little better than Celebrity Queen so he may have got close with even luck. Rock Magic is an honest as they come too. 
  • detonatordetonator    2,644 posts
    Every year or every second year we talk about hard luck stories, or how hot the inside pad is at Ascot etc etc.
    Same dialogue that is spoken about at Moonee Valley. 
    All the big races in Hong Kong are run at Sha Tin instead of Happy Valley.
    The length of the home straight can be an issue and back markers quite often are disadvantaged.
    How good in a perfect world would races such as the Winterbottom be raced under lights at a major upgraded Belmont. Every horse gets a chance. The train line gets extra numbers to the track and away from the venue. 
    Maybe we should get a Peter V’landys involved to get some innovative ideas and energy to think outside the square and bring W.A racing into the 21st century.

  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    The track has nothing to do with the result imo. If you wanna eliminate bad luck then Belmont ain’t the answer. Reduce the field size so you only get the best of the best. Although I’m sure the locals won’t be thrilled by Eastern States horses taking up a third of the entries... [-(

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  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts

    The track has nothing to do with the result imo. If you wanna eliminate bad luck then Belmont ain’t the answer. Reduce the field size so you only get the best of the best. Although I’m sure the locals won’t be thrilled by Eastern States horses taking up a third of the entries... [-(


    I'd be far happier with a field of 10 high quality runners than 16.
    Added to my thoughts here and above, if the bosses at RWWA can use the discretion that they've always had written into the T&Cs to either exclude a horse that shouldn't be there and/or include one that is lowly rated but possibly has shown a clear amount of ability and is worth including, then I'm all for that.
    Seems they haven't used their discretion for a long time but that time is now overdue.
  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    So did anyone actually back the winner at 33-1? C'mon fess up :-@ :-w

    FreoHitman likes this post.

  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    kramer, it should have been 200/1. it had won 4 o/o 7, 72 class, have a look what it had beaten? to be unkind "bugger all". it had never run in open company..not even a welter.
    having said that, it may be out of the box and congrats to dan and his team.
    on a sad note we will have to say "see ya mr. street" as he is pharqued here in wa and the east beckons.
  • TheDivaTheDiva    12,602 posts
    Indeed, backed it along with stageman and red can man. $25 on betfair and again at $38. I saw $50 bet, which was absurd I thought.

    therealkramer likes this post.

  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,746 posts
    ^^...and did call it before the race.
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    ^^ indeed he did...
  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    4,875 posts
    Celebrity Queen also in the unlucky fn camp.... :(
  • hashhash    7,113 posts
    Flanders said:

    I think RWWA really need to re-evaluate allowing lowly-rated horses to start in premium races going forward. Condor Heroes was always going to battle in the Winterbottom at WFA and its inclusion in the field contributed to the mess that took place in the straight. It resulted in several runners getting their chances completely taken away.




    Jockeys should take into consideration the horse they’re following in the run or expecting to get a cart into the race is 100/1 and most likely to go backwards at the business end and ride appropriately
  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    hash said:

    Flanders said:

    I think RWWA really need to re-evaluate allowing lowly-rated horses to start in premium races going forward. Condor Heroes was always going to battle in the Winterbottom at WFA and its inclusion in the field contributed to the mess that took place in the straight. It resulted in several runners getting their chances completely taken away.




    Jockeys should take into consideration the horse they’re following in the run or expecting to get a cart into the race is 100/1 and most likely to go backwards at the business end and ride appropriately

    Well that's quite an obvious statement to make but if those horses raced in a race where they were a chance of finishing closer to first than last you wouldn't have to say anything
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    Just in big races every-man for himself.Return the favour doesn't apply on big days. Thats why alot horses can't get in & are trapped wide. the trip. Thought flirtini was excellent, hit the ground first dragged back, then finished off the last 600. 2nd fastest last 600m.-2nd up from a spell. Of cause there was a truckload of interference to his inside.
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    ^^ noticed harvey was "not available" for comment after the race. to say he was fuming is an under statement.
  • TheDivaTheDiva    12,602 posts
    Elite St was a much bigger run that flirtini... wide with cover then pulled out and wider with no cover... was strong on the line too. 

  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    agree, it was a fantastic achievement...as i said at his 8th start and having beaten sod all at his previous 2 wins. by rights he should not have been in the field.
  • NevershowsurpriseNevershowsurprise    878 posts
    edited November 2020
    thefalcon said:

    agree, it was a fantastic achievement...as i said at his 8th start and having beaten sod all at his previous 2 wins. by rights he should not have been in the field.

    What a complete crock of shite. Deserved to be in the field because he did it tough and don’t know if you’ve noticed....he actually won the race!

    You say he should have been 200/1


    L-) 8-}
  • Precision1Precision1    200 posts
    Thing is there’s no discretion in this at all, only race in the country with that is the Cox plate.  Every other race if you meet the qualifications you’re in.  Only way to avoid it is raise the minimum rating
  • ElitistElitist    358 posts
    The Winterbottom does have a discretionary clause.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    Shamus Award won 2013 cox plate as a maiden.
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,667 posts
    thefalcon said:

    ^^ noticed harvey was "not available" for comment after the race. to say he was fuming is an under statement.




    He always by passes Julio on the way through. Seems to time his run to perfection after the race....

    LETSDOTHIS likes this post.

  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    4,875 posts
    Last year in a field of 15 there were 7 visitors so some 80 odd raters and questionable runners probably missed the cut not sure but likely so.

    Possibly 2 shouldn't have gained a start this year and next year with travel back to normal they won't be able to find a spot anyway.
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    nevershowsurprise, typical comment from you. i was talking to a very good judge on monday and his thoughts were the same as mine...
    notice i did not denegrate the horse, i applaud his win, but all things being equal (no covid) he would be contesting a minor event on the card...i think that would be a fact.
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