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New Handicapping System for the Trots

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    Iceenothink....is he still here? Hasn't started since May 2020. Won a FFA 3 starts back so would not be eligible for drop back and had red hot form his previous 5 runs, would he?

    Rockmeover on the other hand....one win in his last 27 starts, last 13 starts have produced a 2nd and 3 thirds and 9 unplaced runs.....if his form is too good for a drop back, where do you suggest connections race him? Sell him off to North America?
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts
    JayJay said:

    Iceenothink....is he still here? Hasn't started since May 2020. Won a FFA 3 starts back so would not be eligible for drop back and had red hot form his previous 5 runs, would he?

    Rockmeover on the other hand....one win in his last 27 starts, last 13 starts have produced a 2nd and 3 thirds and 9 unplaced runs.....if his form is too good for a drop back, where do you suggest connections race him? Sell him off to North America?



    Without actually factually quoting he’s started favourite atleast 3 times in a metro race in the last couple of months but he’s going well below his best, also heard a very generous offer for him to the states was knocked back
  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    edited February 4
    Agree to a point, an objective assessment, was favourite from good draw (1), but closing times of late as good as he goes.

    So, the solution is to sell him to the States? Is that, or should that be one of the outcomes of a handicap system, that all the "good" horses end up in North America?????......because that is what is happening (not a new phenomena). That can be very lucrative to some owners whilst the exchange rate remains as is but it is an absolute disaster for the Industry as a whole no matter how many imports come in to replace them. So your top end go to America, your mediocre bottom end go the East, you need to be a Pitt Street lawyer to nominate, trainers and owners are abandoning the industry, the battlers race for tuppence  at community meetings, the product is ignored by the media, bandaid after bandaid is applied and then removed....surely this disaster of a system is on it's last legs but on exposed form, not a chance in hell of WA ever lining up with the National System. Like it or not it must happen.

    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts
    jay jay - bit of crossed wires here
    Aussie sent a handicapping paper to RWWA which he said in a recent post hadnt been considered -
    what was written in my last post was a copy of a part of an email exchange between myself and GT where we were discussing Aussies handicapping paper

    the post was intended to let aussie know it was discussed

    At the time the horses mentioned were racing very well at the level they were racing and I dont believe a horse should be able to drop back in the L5$LT races if they are earning consistently at that level'the intention of those races were for horses to find a level where they could earn and maybe win - not drop when racing well until they win - this was something aussie had mentioned i his handicapping paper
    Ice nothink - think he may have gone amiss
    Rock Me Over  HWOE Level 15     win level 0      start level 12
    eligible for L5$ LT$20k (level 10) races       - NR 106       highest 115

    Lochinvar art            L15   - NR120
    Our Jimmy Johnson  L15  - NR120
    bettor be oscar         L12   - Nr 119
    Jack William            L12 - NR118  was 120 before last start

    bettor be oscar has three 2nds and a 3rd in L5$Lt $20k races in his last five starts - he is now eligible for a L5$ LT$12k race not because he is struggling and/or not earning at his current level but because he hasnt won in the last five - I dont think he should be able to drop with that sort of form

    JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    Ok, I now understand the context and time lapse, sorry about that, I was a bit mystified that you were suggesting on current form that Rocky was not a candidate for $L5....wires crossed more at my end than yours. 
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts
    JayJay said:

    Agree to a point, an objective assessment, was favourite from good draw (1), but closing times of late as good as he goes.

    So, the solution is to sell him to the States? Is that, or should that be one of the outcomes of a handicap system, that all the "good" horses end up in North America?????......because that is what is happening (not a new phenomena). That can be very lucrative to some owners whilst the exchange rate remains as is but it is an absolute disaster for the Industry as a whole no matter how many imports come in to replace them. So your top end go to America, your mediocre bottom end go the East, you need to be a Pitt Street lawyer to nominate, trainers and owners are abandoning the industry, the battlers race for tuppence  at community meetings, the product is ignored by the media, bandaid after bandaid is applied and then removed....surely this disaster of a system is on it's last legs but on exposed form, not a chance in hell of WA ever lining up with the National System. Like it or not it must happen.

    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment



    My objective as a trainer is to maximise earnings for my owners if that means when they get to a high grade selling them on so be it good owners will re invest and replace that horse with atleast one other, no handicapping system will stop me selling horses ever. It’s a judgement to know when that time is to sell

    savethegame, cisco, Arapaho likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    edited February 5
    Precisely. I've done the same....no one should ever be dictated to about when they choose to move a horse on. But one of the most frequently stated claims  or KPI's of the HWOE system when it was being "sold" to the industry was to increase the longevity and earning capacity of horses within the WA system.. When horses lose form or reach a certain level, there were to be opportunities for them to continue racing at a level commensurate with their circumstances, thus maintaining a high horse population and contented owners and trainers.

    That has clearly failed, as evidenced by the number of ex WA horses moving east to find their niche in the NR system and the continued export of relatively young and capable horses to North America after short racing careers in WA. In any commercial enterprise, if you don't meet your targets (or KPI's), then your enterprise goes belly up. And yet the controlling body continues on with a strategy that is doing nothing but dividing the Industry, destroying confidence and alienating WA from the rest of Australia by creating artificial advantages for savvy eastern states buyers to profiteer off the disparity in handicapping systems.

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • ArapahoArapaho    21 posts
    Why is everyone obsessed with drop downs and $L5 and its always about the horses, that have been fortunate or lucky enough to win a heap of races and earn a good quid for their connections already.
    Rocket is 100% correct in what he stated.
    And every horse will have a level which they peak at and if they cant progress any further in your stable, give someone else a go,  retire him or sell him and purchase another with the money obtained from winnings or the sale. 
    I would be more worried about the bloke whose horse never got to the races or the bloke carting a maiden all over the countryside trying to win a race,those horses aren't going to have a bank at all and their connections are definitely in the red as far as that venture is concerned.

    Firstly Getthechange I don't understand how you can implement a system HWOE to handicap horses into classes on history( which by the way, is the only way you can grade anything) and then say don't use this, very same system to handicap horses in mobile races, the only way we can, through the allocation of barriers.

    Like for like racing was a point of sale regarding this system 
    Well Rock Me Over L15 winner of  18 races earnings of  $274340 was mentioned, looking at his last start it was in one of your $L5 RBD races, as was Harley Zest L6 winner of 3 races and  $34506 in earnings and guess who drew 9 and ran last.
    Now don't get me wrong, I think Harley Zest is a nice horse and would be more concerned about his career being impeded by running into the Horse of the calibre of Rock Me Over at this stage of his career.
    Regarding Rock Me Over a 6 yr old  Winner of I repeat  LT $274340,  $132175 earnings last season (albeit extended) that finished a month ago meaning even if he didnt race everyweek he still averaged $1940 per week every week for the whole extended season.
    As for his last 27 starts(out of Form) he still earnt roughly $38000 averaging $1400 per run.
    That is more JayJay then The Situation has earnt in his whole career and he is going along nicely winning 4 of last 5.
    I dont think It would  be fair if The Situation ran into him  going for his 9th win and $40000 in stakemoney.
    Drop back and $L5  NO from me.

    Rocket_Reign, savethegame, freodockers likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    Under NR, Harley Zest has a NR of 60, The Situation 70 and Rock Me Over 106, not a hope in Hades of them running into one another at the moment. The Situations NR is inflated by racing him down at Busso, it will soon come back I suspect.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    Lucky not at Mildura under N.R.  running into Bernie Winkler started his winning streak last april in 65-120 N.R.  17 Wins Since---   ten  of those wins  for the punters at less then 1.50---. latest win in 72-120---- field of 6.-- 1.10.---- PBD.on N.R.
  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    A 65 -120 NR race is ridiculous."The Australian Grand Prix - open to Ford Prefects up to Frerrari GT's."
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    But reading Arapho's post Harley Zest  NR 60 rater started from barrier 9. Was in same field as Rockmeover 106  rater in  L5$---- RBD.. last friday.

    Arapaho likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    More crossed wires from me.......under NR, there would be no chance of them meeting provided it wasnt one of those silly NR 60 -120 races they have at Mildura. Under HWOE,  yes they meet via the $L5..with the added burden of RBD....."like races like" was the catchcry of the chief spruiker at the time. What a load of nonsense that turned out to be.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,606 posts

    Lucky not at Mildura under N.R.  running into Bernie Winkler started his winning streak last april in 65-120 N.R.  17 Wins Since---   ten  of those wins  for the punters at less then 1.50---. latest win in 72-120---- field of 6.-- 1.10.---- PBD.on N.R.

    The most amazing thing about those Bernie Winkle benefit races - is why havent other Vic owners sent their horses to a Mildura trainer to contest those mini free for alls - talk about asleep at the wheel

    Like you say there were only 6-7 starters each time - and it was 12k for each of those races - one race per week - for the past 6 mths - and a couple of weeks back  it was 20k - sensational prizemoney 

    BW isnt a Mildura horse - it was sent to Geoff Lucas a local trainer - and it won the 1st 7 in a row before Douglas started trainig it again 

    Why didnt other owners follows suit - just crazy - talk about leading a poddy calf to a bucket of milk and not drinking it - beyond stupid 

    savethegame likes this post.

  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts
    arapaho - HWOE doesnt work on its own for pref draws for the same reason  they didnt work in the MCR system - the trainers of all the horses aim for these races in order to get a good drawand the big stables with their weight of numbers get a lot of good draws with their progressive type -RBD actually performs better - see pref draw attachment
    Harley Zest - HWOE level 6 - ran 2nd to Burning Rubber in a L5$ LT $8,000 - on the same day he could have started in a HWOE L6/7 where Burning Rubber cant start because he is HWOE level 12 - the trainer made the decision to start him in the L5$ Lt $8,000 against horses dropping back (probably because he didnt want to have two starters in that race) - it was his choice - he could have started in the race without drop backs - see wa conditioned attachment - page 4 points 3-4-5
    the same applies to when Harley zest met Rock Me Over - he could have started in a HWOE
     level 6 midweek or a level 7/9 at GPm but chose the drop back race - trainers choice
    Under the WA system horses can drop back to level 4 but only in the drop back races - under NR they can drop to 30 - 3yo+ first starters start on 50
    like for like racing - in L5$ Lt races all the starters are under a designated figure in their last five starts - nothing to do with their HWOE figure - horses with $L5 LT $12k race other horses with $L5 Lt 12k
    in HWOe races they are grouped by theiir win $ - see attachment PTT 3
    docx
    docx
    Pref Draws.docx
    47K
    docx
    docx
    PTT 3.docx
    20K
    docx
    docx
    WA conditioned abbreviated.docx
    33K
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts
    edited February 5
    Proposal for Change 
    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
  • ArapahoArapaho    21 posts
    AB Your on the money 
    Its a YES from me
  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
  • freodockersfreodockers    864 posts
    GTC sorry but there’s a reason why AB is posting on this site.
    So he can be heard.
    Pretty sure JJ has tried the approach you are suggesting to no avail, just like numerous of us in the past have attempted.
    If it’s a good suggestion maybe KH should approach JT and say thanks for your input at least.
    That is all that is asked for.
    The fact that this site is becoming a sounding board for decision makers is another matter.
    PS my dealings with KH some years ago cannot complain, always willing to help clubs out.
    May have been handed a basket case.
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts
    edited February 7

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 

    freodockers, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • ciscocisco    747 posts
    Just a short note to say thank you to the decision makers who have ceased the blind nominations idea. 

    For part owners like me, who live interstate, it makes it so much easier to know where your horses will be racing and, more importantly, who against.


  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin
    Thanks Colin , I forwarded it on 
    like you I only agree with parts of what you have helped developed ,
    what Part do you disagree with 

  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin
    Thanks Colin , I forwarded it on 
    like you I only agree with parts of what you have helped developed ,
    what Part do you disagree with 

    point 1 - disagree but  L5$ Lt races need to be more widespread - working on that
    point 2 - have little faith in the FSP - think it needs a revamp to use it
    'community acsending agree
    country ascending disagree (at this stage)
    Point 3 + 5 - pretty much heading that way already
    point 4 - agree but disagree with the pref draw on NR 
    point 6- agree with maiden -  the higher the better
    disagree with higher stakes - R penalty raced for 2017 $3000   early 2018  $3500    late 2018 $4500        yes they were non penalty but unlike when you took the same penalty for winning a low stake race at Wyalkatchem as you did for winning a high stake race at Pin in the days before R penalty races the community races now take a part penalty- a horse winning 16 races at community would have HWOE 40992 (level 10)      - a horse winning 9 $7500 races has 40,356 (level 10) - 16 wins at community compared to 9 in $7500 races for similar HWOE - 
    not non penalties but also not the same penalty for the same number of wins 

  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts
    edited February 8

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin
    Thanks Colin , I forwarded it on 
    like you I only agree with parts of what you have helped developed ,
    what Part do you disagree with 

    point 1 - disagree but  L5$ Lt races need to be more widespread - working on that
    point 2 - have little faith in the FSP - think it needs a revamp to use it
    'community acsending agree
    country ascending disagree (at this stage)
    Point 3 + 5 - pretty much heading that way already
    point 4 - agree but disagree with the pref draw on NR 
    point 6- agree with maiden -  the higher the better
    disagree with higher stakes - R penalty raced for 2017 $3000   early 2018  $3500    late 2018 $4500        yes they were non penalty but unlike when you took the same penalty for winning a low stake race at Wyalkatchem as you did for winning a high stake race at Pin in the days before R penalty races the community races now take a part penalty- a horse winning 16 races at community would have HWOE 40992 (level 10)      - a horse winning 9 $7500 races has 40,356 (level 10) - 16 wins at community compared to 9 in $7500 races for similar HWOE - 
    not non penalties but also not the same penalty for the same number of wins 

    I think we will always have a difference of opinion on the L5$ LT races Colin ,The more I review the L5$LT races the fields and barriers ,the more I disagree with them and the way its formulated 
    I think it severely disadvantages the lower assessed horses (and it is often used as a second preference race) and being RBD in almost all of them gives them no chance if outclassed in L/HWOE assessment
    There is no uniform entry point, horses that have had the advantage of being able to use the system over time to class drop will always have an advantage over others assessed at higher entry points due to some horses being in the L5$ LT longer than others that haven't raced under that system sometimes of a lesser HWOE,even if they have been out of form for some time ,it does not have a unilateral approach there is more than 1 problem with them and therefore should be scrapped for a better option 

    There is a Strong push to maximize fields at Mon/Tue Friday meetings to increase turnover what better way than to fill them up with the best performed horses by way of balloting them from weekend meetings which in turn would give some of the mid-level performers a chance at improving their form

    Community field selected on Ascending order already exists we currently have 4 tiers Metro/Provincial/Country/Community what I would propose brings it back to 3 bringing community up to country and raising the stakes (figure to be determined) and then drawing Country fields on Ascending order will achieve some movement of better performed horses to the meetings they are required to be in 
     
    Change GP Tuesday to Bunbury Tuesday the industry is too heavily metro/peel rated with the program Industry needs to build back up in the southwest and country regions by having regular meetings at Bunbury Tuesday and outer Country Saturday/Sunday the Industry will have a chance to rebuild

    Under HWOE the number of wins is irrelevant now it’s a $ based system and winning more races for less stakes over a longer period of time is of no advantage as more hours of labour and funds are required to achieve the same goal ,better systems can be developed and should be considered 

    Once fields are more evenly matched a system of PBD can be used FSP is good enough to select fields upon being form based and it should be considered as an option as a handicapping tool 

    NR would also work as a PBD option as horses would race in there level but draw on their NR ,this may slow down the exodus from WA of horses that have gotten up in level by them being competitive again with a draw advantage 

    RBD is still a vital component as trainers need options to draw well with performed horses 

  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin
    Thanks Colin , I forwarded it on 
    like you I only agree with parts of what you have helped developed ,
    what Part do you disagree with 

    point 1 - disagree but  L5$ Lt races need to be more widespread - working on that
    point 2 - have little faith in the FSP - think it needs a revamp to use it
    'community acsending agree
    country ascending disagree (at this stage)
    Point 3 + 5 - pretty much heading that way already
    point 4 - agree but disagree with the pref draw on NR 
    point 6- agree with maiden -  the higher the better
    disagree with higher stakes - R penalty raced for 2017 $3000   early 2018  $3500    late 2018 $4500        yes they were non penalty but unlike when you took the same penalty for winning a low stake race at Wyalkatchem as you did for winning a high stake race at Pin in the days before R penalty races the community races now take a part penalty- a horse winning 16 races at community would have HWOE 40992 (level 10)      - a horse winning 9 $7500 races has 40,356 (level 10) - 16 wins at community compared to 9 in $7500 races for similar HWOE - 
    not non penalties but also not the same penalty for the same number of wins 

    I think we will always have a difference of opinion on the L5$ LT races Colin ,The more I review the L5$LT races the fields and barriers ,the more I disagree with them and the way its formulated 
    I think it severely disadvantages the lower assessed horses (and it is often used as a second preference race) and being RBD in almost all of them gives them no chance if outclassed in L/HWOE assessment
    There is no uniform entry point, horses that have had the advantage of being able to use the system over time to class drop will always have an advantage over others assessed at higher entry points due to some horses being in the L5$ LT longer than others that haven't raced under that system sometimes of a lesser HWOE,even if they have been out of form for some time ,it does not have a unilateral approach there is more than 1 problem with them and therefore should be scrapped for a better option 

    There is a Strong push to maximize fields at Mon/Tue Friday meetings to increase turnover what better way than to fill them up with the best performed horses by way of balloting them from weekend meetings which in turn would give some of the mid-level performers a chance at improving their form

    Community field selected on Ascending order already exists we currently have 4 tiers Metro/Provincial/Country/Community what I would propose brings it back to 3 bringing community up to country and raising the stakes (figure to be determined) and then drawing Country fields on Ascending order will achieve some movement of better performed horses to the meetings they are required to be in 
     
    Change GP Tuesday to Bunbury Tuesday the industry is too heavily metro/peel rated with the program Industry needs to build back up in the southwest and country regions by having regular meetings at Bunbury Tuesday and outer Country Saturday/Sunday the Industry will have a chance to rebuild

    Under HWOE the number of wins is irrelevant now it’s a $ based system and winning more races for less stakes over a longer period of time is of no advantage as more hours of labour and funds are required to achieve the same goal ,better systems can be developed and should be considered 

    Once fields are more evenly matched a system of PBD can be used FSP is good enough to select fields upon being form based and it should be considered as an option as a handicapping tool 

    NR would also work as a PBD option as horses would race in there level but draw on their NR ,this may slow down the exodus from WA of horses that have gotten up in level by them being competitive again with a draw advantage 

    RBD is still a vital component as trainers need options to draw well with performed horses 

    hi Jeremy 
    we are going to disagree on $L5 races because you  are looking at them on how you would like them to run as opposed to how they are designed to run.The entry point it is up to the trainer as is whether the horse remains in them. Burning Rubber and Mcardles Gem both race in these races only as they struggle in level 12 races, Both have raced quite well but from memory neither has ever started at odds on even when they have drawn well under RBD. Burning Rubber had to get back to L5$ LT$8k and took five attempts at that level to win and off an ok draw started about $&,  The lower level horse Harley Zest could have started in a L6/7 but chose to race in the L5$ LT $8k race and he was the best run in the race and only got beaten because he happened to draw wide. Mcardles Gem despite good form has been able to drop levels just because he hasnt won - I dont think that should happen_ if Just Barney was to enter the L5$ LT races he would currently enter in L5$ LT$12k races (level 8) - his last 4 starts have been in races with start level of 8 so after one more start in that type of race he will be eligible for the L5$LT$8k race  - five starts there without winning and he is back to L5$ LT$4k - I quite like the horse so no offence intended but despite being a level 9 horse it is unlikely he would start odds on from barrier 1 in any of those races so why impose a pref draw on him and others like him. these races are pref draw because the horse finds its level but could they have a mixture of RBD and pref draws - Sure
    paragraphs 2-3-4 - I believe GPC Tuesday is a good turnover day so I very much doubt that race day will change
    Certainly making country fields drawn ascending will do what you say but that would be restricting the racing opportunities for a lot of trainers - think it would be an unpopular move
    paragraph 5 - more hours of labour and funds by racing in $4500 races when they were previously $3500 ??
    FSP    is used to select fields but while Rock me Over wins a L10+ and gets the same points as the winner of the maiden and Rock Me Overs points are only equal to a 4th at GPM i will think it is flawed - it is up to the industry to decide if they are happy with that
    NR for pref draws - i dont like the idea but its not up to me 

    regards
    Colin

    Rocket_Reign, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts

    Proposal for Change 

    • Scrap L5$ LT races bring it back to one system L (levels)
    • Select fields at community and country tracks in ascending order to drive the higher FSP (field selection points) horses to Monday Pinjarra ,Tuesday Bunbury, Friday GP if balloted from Sat/Sunday 
    • Horses are Grouped in L(levels) formely HWOE or Aged Races the way the system is designed 
    • Use a mix of RBD ,PBD/ FSP to give both those with form or without  an opportunity to draw well (maybe even a PBD NR could be used to combine the National ratings system )
    • Simplify Descriptions of eligibility  so the industry understands it (less is more)
    • Balance out stake money so all maidens race for the same stakes (first win is critical and sometimes the only win for some ) and raise the bottom tier stakes there is no R (penalty free ) class racing anymore so we shouldn’t be racing for such low stakes no matter where we race in the country keep it more uniform country stakes and metro stakes and feature races
    • Implement All of the Above to benefit  the industry we have a good west bred series in place and epona breeding credits ,we have good stock of young drivers and trainers they will provide the horses and fantastic drives to entertain us 
    It seems pretty simple easy to implement and it will be effective 
    My only hope is that KH GT or someone with the connections to rwwa could take this proposal forward 
    Until then I will try to win a race from impossible draws and insurmountable odds in uncertain times 
    given this comment from jay jay I would hardly think KH or GT will take much notice of aussiebattler from PTT
    going direct to RWWA as JT would be a better chance

    jay Jay said
    And finally, the phantom Minister for Racing???? Why the opposition leave this very elusive failure alone is beyond me. I have given up on him, emails unanswered, letters not acknowledged....a shocking appointment
    Colin ,I tried my best to fight for fairness eventually due to limited success I gave up . 
    Both Kerry Hanks and Garry Torto would know my profile on PTT is Aussie Battler there are more people directly involved with consultation BOTRA HRCG WASBA or WACHRA They are welcome to any of the Ideas I present either on here or to them directly  ,I like many have plenty of Ideas that can help the industry but there is very little direct consultation with participants 
    I don’t expect any recognition or praise and I throw these ideas on this site for feedback from members and with the hope that someone still willing to fight for our survival will take the ideas further Up the chain ,frankly I would prefer PTT showed our names I don’t see the need to be anonymous and it is actually good to know who your talking to 
    Your welcome to copy and paste this into an email and forward it on to the ones you worked with in developing the CRS if you think it’s a good Idea or worth a try ,good ideas will need the strength of the industry behind them to be implemented ,individuals have very little impact in effecting change 
    Regards
    Jeremy Thornton
    Like a ripple in a pond it all starts with a single drop 
    Jeremy - the logic of putting ideas forward to get feed back is sound but if you are happy with the feedback and are still committed to those ideas then wouldn`t expanding on the reasons behind those ideas and sending them to RWWA where the decisions are made be better than hoping KH or GT have actually read your thoughts on PTT . 
    I only agree with parts of your proposal so I wont be pushing for it that shouldn`t make much difference as I have a low strike rate at getting changes
    My intention is to only post occasionally as i dont think there is much I can add to the explanations already made but I will keep an eye on the posts as nearly everyone
    has a good idea at sometime
    Your criticism is usually constructive and I have used some of the posts of yours - KTQ - Chariots - Rockets and a few others in submissions so I hope you all keep posting
    regards
    Colin
    Thanks Colin , I forwarded it on 
    like you I only agree with parts of what you have helped developed ,
    what Part do you disagree with 

    point 1 - disagree but  L5$ Lt races need to be more widespread - working on that
    point 2 - have little faith in the FSP - think it needs a revamp to use it
    'community acsending agree
    country ascending disagree (at this stage)
    Point 3 + 5 - pretty much heading that way already
    point 4 - agree but disagree with the pref draw on NR 
    point 6- agree with maiden -  the higher the better
    disagree with higher stakes - R penalty raced for 2017 $3000   early 2018  $3500    late 2018 $4500        yes they were non penalty but unlike when you took the same penalty for winning a low stake race at Wyalkatchem as you did for winning a high stake race at Pin in the days before R penalty races the community races now take a part penalty- a horse winning 16 races at community would have HWOE 40992 (level 10)      - a horse winning 9 $7500 races has 40,356 (level 10) - 16 wins at community compared to 9 in $7500 races for similar HWOE - 
    not non penalties but also not the same penalty for the same number of wins 

    I think we will always have a difference of opinion on the L5$ LT races Colin ,The more I review the L5$LT races the fields and barriers ,the more I disagree with them and the way its formulated 
    I think it severely disadvantages the lower assessed horses (and it is often used as a second preference race) and being RBD in almost all of them gives them no chance if outclassed in L/HWOE assessment
    There is no uniform entry point, horses that have had the advantage of being able to use the system over time to class drop will always have an advantage over others assessed at higher entry points due to some horses being in the L5$ LT longer than others that haven't raced under that system sometimes of a lesser HWOE,even if they have been out of form for some time ,it does not have a unilateral approach there is more than 1 problem with them and therefore should be scrapped for a better option 

    There is a Strong push to maximize fields at Mon/Tue Friday meetings to increase turnover what better way than to fill them up with the best performed horses by way of balloting them from weekend meetings which in turn would give some of the mid-level performers a chance at improving their form

    Community field selected on Ascending order already exists we currently have 4 tiers Metro/Provincial/Country/Community what I would propose brings it back to 3 bringing community up to country and raising the stakes (figure to be determined) and then drawing Country fields on Ascending order will achieve some movement of better performed horses to the meetings they are required to be in 
     
    Change GP Tuesday to Bunbury Tuesday the industry is too heavily metro/peel rated with the program Industry needs to build back up in the southwest and country regions by having regular meetings at Bunbury Tuesday and outer Country Saturday/Sunday the Industry will have a chance to rebuild

    Under HWOE the number of wins is irrelevant now it’s a $ based system and winning more races for less stakes over a longer period of time is of no advantage as more hours of labour and funds are required to achieve the same goal ,better systems can be developed and should be considered 

    Once fields are more evenly matched a system of PBD can be used FSP is good enough to select fields upon being form based and it should be considered as an option as a handicapping tool 

    NR would also work as a PBD option as horses would race in there level but draw on their NR ,this may slow down the exodus from WA of horses that have gotten up in level by them being competitive again with a draw advantage 

    RBD is still a vital component as trainers need options to draw well with performed horses 

    hi Jeremy 
    we are going to disagree on $L5 races because you  are looking at them on how you would like them to run as opposed to how they are designed to run.The entry point it is up to the trainer as is whether the horse remains in them. Burning Rubber and Mcardles Gem both race in these races only as they struggle in level 12 races, Both have raced quite well but from memory neither has ever started at odds on even when they have drawn well under RBD. Burning Rubber had to get back to L5$ LT$8k and took five attempts at that level to win and off an ok draw started about $&,  The lower level horse Harley Zest could have started in a L6/7 but chose to race in the L5$ LT $8k race and he was the best run in the race and only got beaten because he happened to draw wide. Mcardles Gem despite good form has been able to drop levels just because he hasnt won - I dont think that should happen_ if Just Barney was to enter the L5$ LT races he would currently enter in L5$ LT$12k races (level 8) - his last 4 starts have been in races with start level of 8 so after one more start in that type of race he will be eligible for the L5$LT$8k race  - five starts there without winning and he is back to L5$ LT$4k - I quite like the horse so no offence intended but despite being a level 9 horse it is unlikely he would start odds on from barrier 1 in any of those races so why impose a pref draw on him and others like him. these races are pref draw because the horse finds its level but could they have a mixture of RBD and pref draws - Sure
    paragraphs 2-3-4 - I believe GPC Tuesday is a good turnover day so I very much doubt that race day will change
    Certainly making country fields drawn ascending will do what you say but that would be restricting the racing opportunities for a lot of trainers - think it would be an unpopular move
    paragraph 5 - more hours of labour and funds by racing in $4500 races when they were previously $3500 ??
    FSP    is used to select fields but while Rock me Over wins a L10+ and gets the same points as the winner of the maiden and Rock Me Overs points are only equal to a 4th at GPM i will think it is flawed - it is up to the industry to decide if they are happy with that
    NR for pref draws - i dont like the idea but its not up to me 

    regards
    Colin



    Couldn’t agree more about the $L5 races I think they’re brilliant and if you understand them and how to use them to your advantage they’re a great race to keep average horses earning, Thereugo is another that has played the $L5 races well
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts
    Thats ok if you can get To Mid week meetings consistently Rocket not everyone can ,need luck in the draw with GP being a leader bias track,as Colin Said Burning Rubber and Mcardles Gem have both done well ,when drawn well in these races (if they had drawn well in HWOE races they would also go well )
    JB barriers at GP 9,8,9,12,5,7,8,10 (never had much luck with barrier draws at GP)

    next 8 weeks program for a L9 Horse $L5 $1633.00 ($326 per start) (way under any of the L5$ LT conditioned set $)

    Program for L5$LT 12k races all at GP Tuesday for the next 8 Weeks all RBD 
    Program for L5$LT 8k races all at GP Tuesday for the next 8 Weeks all RBD

    Most if not All L7/L8 (CL9) PBD/L most likely draw bad but is what it is lately Favorites been of 1-4 with good horses coming through the grades which is set to continue no consideration to recent form applies to barriers just historical win $ 

    GP Friday L7/L9 RBD may be a better option than all of the above if I gotta travel to GP to race may as well be on a Friday for metro stakes ( take a chance on getting a draw )



     

  • getthechangegetthechange    214 posts

    Thats ok if you can get To Mid week meetings consistently Rocket not everyone can ,need luck in the draw with GP being a leader bias track,as Colin Said Burning Rubber and Mcardles Gem have both done well ,when drawn well in these races (if they had drawn well in HWOE races they would also go well )

    JB barriers at GP 9,8,9,12,5,7,8,10 (never had much luck with barrier draws at GP)

    next 8 weeks program for a L9 Horse $L5 $1633.00 ($326 per start) (way under any of the L5$ LT conditioned set $)

    Program for L5$LT 12k races all at GP Tuesday for the next 8 Weeks all RBD 
    Program for L5$LT 8k races all at GP Tuesday for the next 8 Weeks all RBD

    Most if not All L7/L8 (CL9) PBD/L most likely draw bad but is what it is lately Favorites been of 1-4 with good horses coming through the grades which is set to continue no consideration to recent form applies to barriers just historical win $ 

    GP Friday L7/L9 RBD may be a better option than all of the above if I gotta travel to GP to race may as well be on a Friday for metro stakes ( take a chance on getting a draw )



     

    Jeremy - i would like your thoughts on the attachment 
    regards
    Colin
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    Jeremy.docx
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  • maybesomaybeso    77 posts
    I will give my opinion. Get rid of the HWOE system, along with its $L5, and go to the NR system.
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