G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

0 Members & 9 Non Members

Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

Harness & Greyhounds

Comments

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,606 posts
    Well it is not Christopher Voak - because i looked at the Voaktrain 

    However for anyone interested - on Voakys site - there is a great little interview with Colin Brown after the big win Friday night 
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,186 posts
    Markovina said:

    A lot of discussion on twitter after a prominent driver called for all tracks other than GP, Pinjarra and Bunbury to be closed.

    Come on Chariots - tell us who it was 
    Attached to the Hall camp but not Junior.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,959 posts
    Markovina said:

    Diaba banked another 7k today - won a 13k race ( terrific stakemoney ) at Bathurst today - started $1.20 fave - never going to lose - and again ran slick time 


    Who was the prominent reinsman - like to know who it is - i reckon it is a terrible suggestion- you only have to look at QLD ( the racing is ok ) but it must be terribly stale for the participants because they have only got 2 tracks  Redcliffe and AP - they were unfortunate/unlucky in that the Parklands/Gold Coast track they lost that because the govt resumed the land for a freeway  
    Wasnt Parklands-Gold Coast "resumed" for the Commonwealth Games Village Marko from memory?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,946 posts
    edited February 15
    JayJay said:

    So Northam cops 4 hours of unseasonal rain and someone not club related digs a ditch across the back straight in Williams......and we shut down about 8 tracks? So brainless as to defy belief.

    Just for the record Jay Jay ....Northam in the last seven years has lost 3 races at two meetings due to electrical storms, had one meeting postponed ( 250ml of rain in 24 hrs) and lost one complete meeting after 3 consecutive days of rain prior to losing the last 5 races at the meeting last week due largely to mobile barrier traction concerns after that 4 hrs of non stop rain. 
    So in approx 1180 races over that time it has lost 19 races or around 2.2% of the possible total and only one complete meeting. 
    I am sure that stacks up more than favourably against the losses across the major clubs in that time but yeah sure...close it. Most Northam meetings are fully subscribed with nominations as well....that is a sure sign things are on the slide.
     
    Scratch the surface of the calls for track closures and barely beneath that surface lies self interest....you can bet on that.
  • VillageKidVillageKid    1,959 posts

    Maybe RWWA inadvertently following South Australia’s model.
    Think they have 3 country tracks.
    Absolute disgrace that the pacing industry in WA is in the situation it’s in.

    Believe it or not SA have more current tracks than QLD does!
  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    I place little credibility....well none actually..... on the Gordon Gecko Lemming mentality of the  millennials and their supporters who would see a further erosion of the industry to cottage status. So selfish that they would shoot their parents in order to attend the orphans picnic.

    Muldoon likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts
    The new blood of the industry aren’t just all living in the past is all, centralising racing would be brilliant 3 tracks all accessible from the freeway.

    These clubs can continue to operate and the programming doesn’t change they just race at the premiere tracks for example Williams @ Pinjarra yesterday. Same races same horses just ran on a track that isn’t sub par and out dated by 20 years

    Cant_Refuse, JimmyPop likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,606 posts

    The new blood of the industry aren’t just all living in the past is all, centralising racing would be brilliant 3 tracks all accessible from the freeway.

    These clubs can continue to operate and the programming doesn’t change they just race at the premiere tracks for example Williams @ Pinjarra yesterday. Same races same horses just ran on a track that isn’t sub par and out dated by 20 years

    Thats your opinion - your entitled to it

    You state " it would be brilliant " 

    My opinion which im entitled to - the Bunbury track for a track that size is the most unfair track in Aust - any person with any engineering background would realize that straight away

    It has got the narrowest radius un the home turns of any track in Aust - for example the Albany track - much smaller track- but the radius of the turns is wider - that says it all

    If your closing trotting tracks in WA  (which im not for ) then i would load the gun and hold it at Bunburys head - that track hasnt had a dime spent on it in the past 20 years - if they are not going to spend big money on it and remedy the situation - then i would close Bunbury asap

    Gary Hall jnr said it all when interviewed trackside at Bunbury when they had the inter heats their - he said look it is a big track but it is a real leaders track - and the reason for that is the narrow radius of the turns 

    From your posting - your main interest is betting - you like your horses drawn gate  1 on those unfair GP and Bunbury tracks - you get your $1.60 - and because the tracks are so unfair it is very hard  to beat those leaders - i call that as boring as bat shitt- and that type of racing is not going to attract new people to the sport 

    I want to see harness racing  on lovely fair spacious tracks - where every horse has got a chance - Hobart last night is a great example - sure everyone likes a bet - but the racing is that exciting - even the races you havent had a bet in - you can still sit back and enjoy it
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts
    Markovina said:

    The new blood of the industry aren’t just all living in the past is all, centralising racing would be brilliant 3 tracks all accessible from the freeway.

    These clubs can continue to operate and the programming doesn’t change they just race at the premiere tracks for example Williams @ Pinjarra yesterday. Same races same horses just ran on a track that isn’t sub par and out dated by 20 years

    Thats your opinion - your entitled to it

    You state " it would be brilliant " 

    My opinion which im entitled to - the Bunbury track for a track that size is the most unfair track in Aust - any person with any engineering background would realize that straight away

    It has got the narrowest radius un the home turns of any track in Aust - for example the Albany track - much smaller track- but the radius of the turns is wider - that says it all

    If your closing trotting tracks in WA  (which im not for ) then i would load the gun and hold it at Bunburys head - that track hasnt had a dime spent on it in the past 20 years - if they are not going to spend big money on it and remedy the situation - then i would close Bunbury asap

    Gary Hall jnr said it all when interviewed trackside at Bunbury when they had the inter heats their - he said look it is a big track but it is a real leaders track - and the reason for that is the narrow radius of the turns 

    From your posting - your main interest is betting - you like your horses drawn gate  1 on those unfair GP and Bunbury tracks - you get your $1.60 - and because the tracks are so unfair it is very hard  to beat those leaders - i call that as boring as bat shitt- and that type of racing is not going to attract new people to the sport 

    I want to see harness racing  on lovely fair spacious tracks - where every horse has got a chance - Hobart last night is a great example - sure everyone likes a bet - but the racing is that exciting - even the races you havent had a bet in - you can still sit back and enjoy it



    Everyone keeps harping on about turnover well turnover as a fact is higher on the premiere tracks so whether or not it’s a Williams program being run at Pinjarra or if it’s a normal program the meeting will still attract a higher turnover.
    As they keep saying the sport is doomed if turnover doesn’t increase and that there is the first step to increasing it
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts
    Also FYI I would have no issue with clubs like Collie Busselton and Albany keeping going they have good turnover good crowds and a good pool of local horses. Those clubs can fund themselves
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,186 posts
    Just as a matter of interest Rocket how do you expect the clubs you mentioned to fund themselves without RWWA's assistance. Albany's last meeting paid stakes of $59,500 well beyond the capacity of the club to fund by themselves.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts

    Just as a matter of interest Rocket how do you expect the clubs you mentioned to fund themselves without RWWA's assistance. Albany's last meeting paid stakes of $59,500 well beyond the capacity of the club to fund by themselves.




    I don’t mean stake money I mean not constantly sticking their hand out
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    1,606 posts

    JayJay said:

    So Northam cops 4 hours of unseasonal rain and someone not club related digs a ditch across the back straight in Williams......and we shut down about 8 tracks? So brainless as to defy belief.

    Just for the record Jay Jay ....Northam in the last seven years has lost 3 races at two meetings due to electrical storms, had one meeting postponed ( 250ml of rain in 24 hrs) and lost one complete meeting after 3 consecutive days of rain prior to losing the last 5 races at the meeting last week due largely to mobile barrier traction concerns after that 4 hrs of non stop rain. 
    So in approx 1180 races over that time it has lost 19 races or around 2.2% of the possible total and only one complete meeting. 
    I am sure that stacks up more than favourably against the losses across the major clubs in that time but yeah sure...close it. Most Northam meetings are fully subscribed with nominations as well....that is a sure sign things are on the slide.
     
    Scratch the surface of the calls for track closures and barely beneath that surface lies self interest....you can bet on that.
    Hey Curmudge - just a question re the Northam track/Burwood Park - because obviously you know it like the back of your hand 

    But if the WATA had money ( pity they blew it on those back to back $1 mil inters ) is their space in the complex to increase the size of the track - currently 825 metres 

    Like many years ago i went to Northam often  but they were allways night meetingS ( there was a stewards tower on the corner just past the winning post - and another one at the end of the back straight 

    Like what is behind the back straight - is their a river i wouldnt know 

    But my opinion is - if Northam could be increased to say 925-950 with excellent cambering - then it would be the best track in WA  
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    Forget the exacta  amount within in a couple weeks, Mining companies had promised in excess of over 100k. in the goldfields region B.Snell would know the exact figure, plus I recieved a phone call from a Large transport company offering to sponsor Two meetings. But had to inform the transport company part-owner a personal friend it was a firm no from  RWWA -- but what i found the most disturbing was the industry participants from other regions was against G.M.TC.   continuing so be it.

    We had a ring around i wont print here what was a major concern with a lot of the participants..

    But can categorically state Mining Companies would  not sponsor outside the goldfields region purely mindset  its a outlet for the local community.& its employees

     Not in position to speak for GMTC. not on committee, whether they would sponsor at  Kella  or Northam. closest two clubs;

    But places like Williams couldn't see the B.P  road house sponsor the Williams club to hold a meeting at Pinjarra.or many  other business.,Or people  who purely in voluntary capacities  on committees just for the benefit of there  town.

    United you stand divided you fall. Ever heard of the Ten little indian boys.then there was none.

    Kersley and co. may have been right  just 12 drivers.needed.

    Hall jnr  Warwick  Suvaljko  Lewis  eg-green  .Voak  (6) -------- From----- De Campo Cortopassi  Grantham J.Prentice E.Suvaljko. D.Roberts   C Brown  K.Harper J. Young   Macdonald  Reed.L.Harper  for the other 6




  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    27 posts
    Without the supposed "New blood" entering the industry, what we have at the moment will become a stale, unpopular product, if it hasn't already started heading in that direction. We are at stage where any new idea should be welcomed or at the very least, questioned in a constructive manner, rather than just branded as "self interest" etc. At the end of the day I think we all just want too see the industry become relivent at any cost

    Rocket_Reign, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    469 posts

    Forget the exacta  amount within in a couple weeks, Mining companies had promised in excess of over 100k. in the goldfields region B.Snell would know the exact figure, plus I recieved a phone call from a Large transport company offering to sponsor Two meetings. But had to inform the transport company part-owner a personal friend it was a firm no from  RWWA -- but what i found the most disturbing was the industry participants from other regions was against G.M.TC.   continuing so be it.


    We had a ring around i wont print here what was a major concern with a lot of the participants..

    But can categorically state Mining Companies would  not sponsor outside the goldfields region purely mindset  its a outlet for the local community.& its employees

     Not in position to speak for GMTC. not on committee, whether they would sponsor at  Kella  or Northam. closest two clubs;

    But places like Williams couldn't see the B.P  road house sponsor the Williams club to hold a meeting at Pinjarra.or many  other business.,Or people  who purely in voluntary capacities  on committees just for the benefit of there  town.

    United you stand divided you fall. Ever heard of the Ten little indian boys.then there was none.

    Kersley and co. may have been right  just 12 drivers.needed.

    Hall jnr  Warwick  Suvaljko  Lewis  eg-green  .Voak  (6) -------- From----- De Campo Cortopassi  Grantham J.Prentice E.Suvaljko. D.Roberts   C Brown  K.Harper J. Young   Macdonald  Reed.L.Harper  for the other 6







    Kalgoorlie was doomed 90% of the horse population was travelling trainers had both Courtney and Aldo pulled the pin there would of been 30 horses left

    JimmyPop likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,946 posts
    Marko

    Wayne Kelsall provided an engineering  schematic for a 900m or 960m track at Northam. I have seen it but would have to hunt it down to find the exact dimensions.

    The issue in adding the extra circumference is the steep dropoff along the back straight and around to the home turn that runs down to the riverbed proper.
    In 2017  heavy rain caused the river to flood and run a metre or so up the banking outside the back fence .....so the cost of doing any extension would necessarily be quite expensive in terms of secure earthworks I would imagine.

    Markovina likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,186 posts
    By weight of numbers the closing tracks lobby is winning the debate on twitter.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    No doubt---- but they were actual earning money for other industry participants,or even horses from top stables,  who couldn't cut the mustard in the city, by sharing stakemoney with leases or deals--- plus.We all know there was city classes horses there as well ----which allowed certain city type class races
    to weaken until there return. think Mister Ardee still lets them know his around still now.

    Prior to rwwa inception the country clubs had to go cap in hand to W.AT.A. anyone that  in the industry that has won a race at GMTC. in what ever capacity from around 1950 on when there was three horses in the region can thank the ten men that put money in to the club to  resume trotting on the goldfields after think a two-- three year absence.

    The worst think for the industry is mulitple runners from one stable Think Mildura was lucky to come outta the manure after the tramps.

    Sometimes harness people  can;t see the forest because of the trees. 2k.Regal carts  12 in a race the winner pays 6.50.--- Same race using 12 --10k yank carts the winner still would pay 6.50.l 

    Bondy shifted to the city from Kalg. If he pulled up stumps from the industry there would be three good drivers on struggle street.in a heart beat. .Snr. is  not far from the judge. if they both went 
    G.P. would still survive, the class of horse would drop?--odds------ on favourites would drop?.with either system. in play------ Maybe it was always meant to be a hobbyists industry-for the best.outcome
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    edited February 15

    By weight of numbers the closing tracks lobby is winning the debate on twitter.

    Not on twitter myself. ----- There is still old trainers that nominate by phone. computer illiterate-but the young drivers still  hop into there carts for a earn. Was told over 70% are over 60.in the industry. so the result will be in favour of  closing.----------.Olds they are having  afternoon nap.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,186 posts
    Great punting effort Pinjarra race 3. Took an average of $2.50 about Minni Martini and watched it drift to $5 on Betfair and I surrendered. Two Bob Cracker $7 to $2.80. Nothing untoward with best horse winning by a nose.
  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts

    By weight of numbers the closing tracks lobby is winning the debate on twitter.

    The "debate", if one can dignify it as such, has drawn the Geckos out of hibernation......their simmering desire for total control is very evident. Like trickle down Reaganomics, "rationalisation" or "down sizing"...call it what you like....very rarely benefits anyone other than the major stakeholders. After the big dog eats all the little dogs for temporary relief of hunger, the big dog still ends up being hungry....eventually.

    savethegame, curmudgeon, VillageKid, goose, jum likes this post.

  • MuldoonMuldoon    212 posts

    Markovina said:

    A lot of discussion on twitter after a prominent driver called for all tracks other than GP, Pinjarra and Bunbury to be closed.

    Come on Chariots - tell us who it was 
    Attached to the Hall camp but not Junior.
    I read all that, and then went off for a "Big Mac", left a funny taste in my mouth, being longtime asscoiated with rural trotting  Got a bit messy with a a poor long standing Kal trainer getting a serve. We got your back NH. 

    JayJay, VillageKid, curmudgeon, savethegame likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    1,946 posts
    NSW is an interesting example. The Cross/McCarthy dominance has lead to a stagnation of competitive interest at the Big M. That and the cost of training from the facility has seen a number of trainers abandon ship for other climes and more mooting that prospect.
    The real success story in NSW has been the regional growth Bathurst Wagga Newcastle Penrith Leeton Orange Young Albury Goulburn etc all thriving with innovative programming and some track renewal.
    Sort of opposite to what is being served up as desirable here.....except the stagnation bit.

    VillageKid, goose likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    6,246 posts
    Furthermore, WA is the umbilical cord for racing stock into the NSW regions. And most of the eastward bound HWOE refugees are coming from those who would be most affected by the well organised "close everything down unless it is close to my joint" regional lynching party.So, an orchestrated two pronged attack on the lesser profile stables who cant even begin to compete with the buy huge, race briefly, flog to the US brigade. Yep, sounds like a fantastic recipe for industry resurrection, water tight. At least their position is out in the open now, instead of all the behind the hand snickering and disingenuous smile and nod patronising.

    VillageKid, curmudgeon, freodockers likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,664 posts


    Just as a matter of interest Rocket how do you expect the clubs you mentioned to fund themselves without RWWA's assistance. Albany's last meeting paid stakes of $59,500 well beyond the capacity of the club to fund by themselves.




    I don’t mean stake money I mean not constantly sticking their hand out
    Not one club in WA could exist if they were expected to generate all their own prizemoney allocations through wagering on their own track or the clubs other business interests. 

    Prizemoney at all venues would be far exceeding revenue generated from turnover on their races, only so long RWWA will continue to prop up one of its arms without any sign of a turnaround. 

    VillageKid, curmudgeon, savethegame likes this post.

  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    27 posts
    So while everyone is having a dig at one another based on opinions they don't agree with for whatever reason, has anyone actually come up with any good ideas worth bringing up to rwwa's management to help turn things around or are we all going to just give up and sulk ??
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    242 posts

    So while everyone is having a dig at one another based on opinions they don't agree with for whatever reason, has anyone actually come up with any good ideas worth bringing up to rwwa's management to help turn things around or are we all going to just give up and sulk ??

    yes been there done that ,fought the fight ,some things I still haven't heard back about,what more can one do ? I have lots of Ideas of what I think would help .Different Strategies that are yet to be tested ,could possible fix NR and HWOE but its a different opinion to what they are trying currently so its not tried or tested 

    Just got to get on with it and race now while we still can 

    Chopchop43, savethegame, curmudgeon likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,664 posts

    So while everyone is having a dig at one another based on opinions they don't agree with for whatever reason, has anyone actually come up with any good ideas worth bringing up to rwwa's management to help turn things around or are we all going to just give up and sulk ??




    Handicap the races so betting is more attractive to the rank and file punter rather than just the rusted on. Not only that but you have to find a way to make the races more entertaining rather than this walk-dash home which is all to common in WA with good horses drawing well and dominating, they are entitled to at stages but it's just all to common. If it's not entertaining no one will follow it and if you aren't following it even if you do have the odd bet on it it will be a fraction of the size.

    Run meetings at GP that coincide with sporting events at Optus, meeting before a game, after a game etc. Yep the bridge bar generates short term revenue and logistically it is difficult to run meetings with road restrictions and what not but I don't care sort it out. It is a massive opportunity lost to introduce new people to the sport, there are so so few opportunities where attracting new blood is possible, this one is so obvious and it never happens with the only reason i see being is its a bit hard.

    Summer time food trucks on the lawn at GP. Food trucks all the rage at the moment, last summer we hit up South Fremantle regularly, families everywhere. Charge the trucks a small fee to attend, throw the gates open, spread the word through social media more new people introduced to the sport.

    Don't close any tracks. Again even if these places on paper don't look profitable its what they bring in terms of eye balls and participation over the course of the years rather than an individual meeting that counts. Where did everyone develop their love of the sport? My introduction was sneaking through a hole in the fence over summers spent in Busselton as a kid. Didn't pay entry, didn't bet a zac, didn't buy any food. Turned over a small fortune over the next 30 years. You close tracks you lose that introduction point. Plus its alright to say keep track A, B, C becasue they are central and close to freeways and highways but that doesn't help Bill Blogs out in Meckering does it. He gets disillusioned, cuts his interest, doesn't talk to his mates about horses any more, they lose interest etc etc the pool gets smaller and smaller.

    Teach all involved in the sport where their revenue I.E. there wages come from and I mean in far more detail than :the brand that funds the industry". Have some seminars that outline in detail we generate X through tote pools, Y through fixed odds with Tabtouch, Z through other corporates etc and maybe then they will see the dire need there is to improve betting on the product and be more opened minded to some of the changes RWWA has tried in recent times.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,664 posts

    Just as a matter of interest Rocket how do you expect the clubs you mentioned to fund themselves without RWWA's assistance. Albany's last meeting paid stakes of $59,500 well beyond the capacity of the club to fund by themselves.




    I don’t mean stake money I mean not constantly sticking their hand out



    Who was the major contributor to the new roos at Pinjarra or the new stalls, who paid for the stall upgrades at Bunbury ten or so years ago??

    Non of the clubs would get anything major done without sticking their hands out.

    VillageKid, savethegame, curmudgeon likes this post.

Sign In or Register to comment.