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  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    edited February 27

    Did they move the ascot winning post to the 400 or did p Carberry just think they moved it


    He found it ok in the last. Welcome to the PTT forum by the way

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    Carberry-- on jumping making my intentions clear to lead----My Neuromuscular coordination started to falter, which then in turn resulted in Testing Love stride efficiency& frequency to be affected which in turn presented a secondary problem to my Sternoclavicular joint which become dislocated and my ability to restrain T.L. &. come off the bridle was hugely affected.
  • tonytony    2,072 posts
    edited February 27
    Stewards have opened an inquiry into the ride


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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,746 posts
    edited February 27
    Beret - reckon she’s going to be right up with the very good ones! 1600 or Belmont Park for her.

    Plutocracy - he’s a goer, bit of guts and turn of foot, seen him run well often.

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  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    edited February 27
    Rightly so. And who issued the instructions to ride like that is probably more important. The after race interview was interesting. He already said was riding to instructions to not make it a sit/sprint. So who’s instructions were they?
  • detonatordetonator    2,643 posts
    Instructions???? I watched that “I don’t give  a f**k” interview as well.
    He had one thing on his mind....don’t let the favourite win. 
    If that race was at Flemington he would get a month minimum and be featured on every racing show.
    Disgusting.

    And if the “bulls**t instructions were to not let it be a sit and sprint...how about these instruction “ride the horse and give it the best opportunity to at least come a place. Not to finish tailed off 4 length last.
  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    I bet there was no complaint from Darren McAuliffe last week when Cockney Crew went 3 seconds quicker over the same trip. Why? Because it gave his horse Montelena a good chance to win.
    Different story this week because his horse didn't get it all its own way.

    Begs the question- why was the ride on Cockney Crew not questioned? First up. 1800m. Break-neck speed. Way faster than average speed. Horse never got a chance to figure. But thats ok???

    The 4x 1800m races today all similar times.
    Are the stewards asking that the favourite be left alone on a modest pace? Handing it the win?
  • LETSDOTHISLETSDOTHIS    193 posts
    Bob had 5 runners. what were you all honestly expecting? Of course he was going to use one to cook the fave. It will just be put down as “trying to find out if the horse does it’s best up on speed” but cmon, you can’t be diving into Solaia at $1.80 and not be expecting that
  • hashhash    7,113 posts
    Flanders said:

    I bet there was no complaint from Darren McAuliffe last week when Cockney Crew went 3 seconds quicker over the same trip. Why? Because it gave his horse Montelena a good chance to win.
    Different story this week because his horse didn't get it all its own way.

    Begs the question- why was the ride on Cockney Crew not questioned? First up. 1800m. Break-neck speed. Way faster than average speed. Horse never got a chance to figure. But thats ok???

    The 4x 1800m races today all similar times.
    Are the stewards asking that the favourite be left alone on a modest pace? Handing it the win?




    Your an imbecile if you can honestly compare both races and rides! Cockney crew was ridden to its normal racing pattern and FYI Montelena didn’t win the race

    Testing Love on the other hand was in that race to put pressure on the leader 1000m from the winning post to soften it up as much as possible to try benefit something back in the field to finish over the top

    Would be a different story if the 2 horses booted away at the top of the straight and fought out a photo finish except one kicked on and was brave in defeat and the horse in question folded up like a deck chair and was tailed off 10 lengths last
  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    hash said:

    Flanders said:

    I bet there was no complaint from Darren McAuliffe last week when Cockney Crew went 3 seconds quicker over the same trip. Why? Because it gave his horse Montelena a good chance to win.
    Different story this week because his horse didn't get it all its own way.

    Begs the question- why was the ride on Cockney Crew not questioned? First up. 1800m. Break-neck speed. Way faster than average speed. Horse never got a chance to figure. But thats ok???

    The 4x 1800m races today all similar times.
    Are the stewards asking that the favourite be left alone on a modest pace? Handing it the win?




    Your an imbecile if you can honestly compare both races and rides! Cockney crew was ridden to its normal racing pattern and FYI Montelena didn’t win the race

    Testing Love on the other hand was in that race to put pressure on the leader 1000m from the winning post to soften it up as much as possible to try benefit something back in the field to finish over the top

    Would be a different story if the 2 horses booted away at the top of the straight and fought out a photo finish except one kicked on and was brave in defeat and the horse in question folded up like a deck chair and was tailed off 10 lengths last

    Appreciate what you're saying but it's not like Testing Love went overly quick....
    Out of the 4x 1800m races this was the slowest. If the horse folded up, maybe it just isn't as good as the 2nd horse but does that mean it wasn't given its chance to run well?

    BTW the other 1800m races today (again, they were run faster)- the leading pair ran in the placings.
  • detonatordetonator    2,643 posts
    So the “ok” tactics in W.A racing is to sacrifice your mount to bring the favourite undone ?
    The facts of this race were. From an outside barrier sool your horse up and use petrol from the worst starting position for outside barriers at Ascot so you can eyeball the leader.
    When you do that and your horse is finding its rhythm you then take off at the 700m mark only to be gone at the 400m. Then at the 100m mark you sit up on your horse (as it is going backwards) and say my work is done.
    Is Carvery a 4kg claiming apprentice? Because I do not have a legitimate explanation for what we witnessed.

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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,667 posts
    H-BOMBER said:

    I am keen on a few to win or at least each way;

    R2
    Beaucount if left alone in front
    R3 Safe To Makeup is overdue
    R4 Power of St George at odds an each way special. 
    R6 Avalon Bay
    R7 Indigo Blue
    R8 Baby Blue is a great each way bet. Stable companion Watch Me Ney Ney also will be a big improver
    R9 Molten as best bet and Hoboken worth an interest at odds. Nice quinella.




    I'm waiting for Hoboken to draw a barrier and get to 11/1200m.
    Won't be surprised to see one lob at odds in these tips
    H-BOMBER said:


    H-BOMBER said:

    Just get on if it draws a barrier over the 11/12. Darren has called it around last...so let's keep it quiet 


    :-$
  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    4,875 posts

    Carberry-- on jumping making my intentions clear to lead----My Neuromuscular coordination started to falter, which then in turn resulted in Testing Love stride efficiency& frequency to be affected which in turn presented a secondary problem to my Sternoclavicular joint which become dislocated and my ability to restrain T.L. &. come off the bridle was hugely affected.




    Mate if you have some free time you could make a buck representing some of these fellas to get them outta the s*%t :D

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  • TheSwooperTheSwooper    1,667 posts
    Good run Solaia. Just finished watching them and interestingly, out of all four races run over the 1800m, this was the slowest overall time. The early speed didn't seem hot.

    Leader travelling - horse outside never in rhythm. He either chooses to sit there (like Edwards on Sweet Dreamin) and die a slow death or throw caution to the wind and try something. He did the later. Solia never seemed to skip a beat though and Warwick had it ticking over nicely.

    Possibly the weakest group of fillies we have seen contest this race for the last few years?





  • GilgameshGilgamesh    3,664 posts
    So im firmly in the Carbery get time camp, has to on the visual.

    But to mount a case for Mr Carvery. 

    If you compere the 20 horses across race 6 and race 7, 8 horses from race 6 were quicker to the 600m mark than Testing love in R7 (Reason for Tambora puncturing). 

    Testing love and Solaia ran the 17th and 18th slowest 200m split from the 1200m-1000m of all 20 horses and every horse in R6 ran faster than Testing Love from the 1000m to the 800m. Testing Love was also the slowest of the lot from the 800m to the 400m. This is of course if you can trust the sectionals, pretty sure they are done from video and there are a lot of head ons in these races.

    So he could attempt to mount a case that yes he did intend to put some pressure on the leader but sectionals suggest it wasn't undue and that his horse merely performed poorly/didn't stay.

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  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    Any other stable/owner etc patty gets a decent spell on the pine.

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  • detonatordetonator    2,643 posts
    edited February 28
    Not sure why I listen to the “conflicted” commentators on the radio to look for an unbiased view of racing scenario’s such as the Carvery ride.
    No matter what occurs they always play the PC card ie don’t upset anyone or the nothing to see here at the expense of the punter.
    The comment that the ride could be explained because the stable wanted to see if Testing Love is capable of racing in upcoming staying races ? Really ? 
    (a) does that sort of ride/racing pattern give you that answer? (considering it finished 4 lengths last)
    (b) surely a leading stable like that would already have an indication, rather than use a race where punters have their hard earned on and potentially screw us over. 
    c) Maybe their not Mcauliffe fans. (Ok. That one is tongue in cheek....maybe ?)
    And just for the record I don’t trust those sectionals. 

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  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    edited February 28
    I heard them as well this morning Detonator and i immediately thought “uppercut yourself panel”.
    I have a great deal of respect for the panel this morning made up of Wes, Marty and Julio but if they think that shite from yesterday was fair game and/or nobody gets a spell on the pine for it then i think my time with horses here in WA is done for. To be honest i already have one foot out as it is, this could be the final push. Testing Love had one job yesterday and that was to slit the throat of the leader. I wish we all had the luxury of having 5 horses in a race so we could serve up a sacrificial lamb like that. My opinion only.

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  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    Solaia only just went down in the very late stages of the race. So either it is a freak to do so well OR the pace of the race wasn't that strong.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,106 posts
    edited February 28
    As a punter you try to factor in pointers which allow you to arrive at your final selection---alot times you can know to much.

    All that can come out of this is the fact the whole world knows Peters horses are taught to relax and ridden at the back of the field,and try finish there races off. These ten fillies no doubt were all on oaks  mission  prior to start time------ first try at 1800m.

    Bart Cummings said you never really know they can stay until you try them..  In the run sectionals don't hang anyone y/day--- Only person's accountable is Peters or( williams) if they have failed to notify the stewards there intention to send T.L. forward, against the cerise & white normal pattern of racing . 5k--10k, fine.

    T.Love maybe purely  1400m horse. hadn't raced beyond 1400m till y/day. Solaia maybe knocking on the door 1800m as max. if it was equal weights still wins y/day-----.time will tell.

    .But the run purely from being able to run 2400m Pure Devotion the So you think filly had nowhere to put her feet for greater part of the straight. coming off a strange prep as well unless there was issues, .approx 6 weeks between 1st & 2nd start.3rd up yesterday.& steaming on the line.


  • NgawyniNgawyni    571 posts
    edited February 28
    Carbery said he was riding to instructions. That can only mean Bob. Nobody else gives instructions on Bob’s horses. If you listen to Bob’s interview after Western Empire’s win, he was complaining about the pace at which races were run in WA and that the “ridiculous pace” in Western Empire’s previous race had brought him undone as a result of which Western Empire hadn’t gone East for the Australian Guineas. So it looks to me like Bob had a bee in his bonnet and wanted to be sure Solaia’s race was run at a decent pace - even if that meant riding one of his upside down.

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  • NgawyniNgawyni    571 posts
    Maybe Bob should get time?

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  • NgawyniNgawyni    571 posts
    edited February 28
    Simon Miller also complained about the lack of pace in the Challenge bringing his horse undone.
  • thefalconthefalcon    17,549 posts
    ^ yes, and did you hear wolfie going crook after eurasia won. said the pace in perth races was virtually criminal. suggested the offending jock gets a $500 fine.
    in one meeting you have peters, wolfe and miller complaining about the pace in races.
    something has to be done...and done quickly. imagine the same scenario in melb. or sydney..would only be tried once.
  • detonatordetonator    2,643 posts
    I hear jockeys all the the time say I had a lot of horse under me. Was Carvery thinking that at the 700m when he took off ?. And then realising at the 400m it wasn’t a horse, it was a “cat”.
    If he wanted pace why didn’t he keep his horse going to lead at the start instead of restraining it to eyeball the leader. ? 
    Not sure exactly what the riding fee is but Carvery can send his to me to make up my shortfall on that 
    rubbish.

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  • TiversTivers    7,598 posts
    For all those complaining about the lack of pace - they’re welcome to lead and set it...

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  • hashhash    7,113 posts
    detonator said:

    Not sure why I listen to the “conflicted” commentators on the radio to look for an unbiased view of racing scenario’s such as the Carvery ride.

    No matter what occurs they always play the PC card ie don’t upset anyone or the nothing to see here at the expense of the punter.
    The comment that the ride could be explained because the stable wanted to see if Testing Love is capable of racing in upcoming staying races ? Really ? 
    (a) does that sort of ride/racing pattern give you that answer? (considering it finished 4 lengths last)
    (b) surely a leading stable like that would already have an indication, rather than use a race where punters have their hard earned on and potentially screw us over. 
    c) Maybe their not Mcauliffe fans. (Ok. That one is tongue in cheek....maybe ?)
    And just for the record I don’t trust those sectionals. 



    Something you haven’t mentioned about that ride by Carberry yesterday is that the horse he was on has had 4 prior starts for a very good record, 2 wins and 2 second. Now in each of those races it’s not once tried to go to the lead, interesting tactic to go to the lead yesterday considering it’s done pretty bloody well without doing do before

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  • FlandersFlanders    809 posts
    detonator said:

    I hear jockeys all the the time say I had a lot of horse under me. Was Carvery thinking that at the 700m when he took off ?. And then realising at the 400m it wasn’t a horse, it was a “cat”.

    If he wanted pace why didn’t he keep his horse going to lead at the start instead of restraining it to eyeball the leader. ? 
    Not sure exactly what the riding fee is but Carvery can send his to me to make up my shortfall on that 
    rubbish.

    (a) So what you and DMac and the ~100 owners are saying is that Solaia should have been unchallenged in the lead?
    (b) Was Testing Love ridden outside of its normal pattern? Last start it sat 4th over 1400m and won. It has had 4 starts... is that enough starts to confirm it's best racing pattern? Noting that it hasn't raced beyond 1400m until yesterdays 1800m.
    (c) Just because Bob's horses usually race off pace doesn't mean they always will! There looked to be no pace in that race and the odds-on fave would surely lead. Why should they just hand it the race?
    (d) The times (overall and sectional) don't justify the criticism. The only thing that justifies it is if you are dirty because you think Solaia should get its own way in front.
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    8,667 posts
    Why is the pace or lack thereof such an issue for people? Genuine question.

    Is there a rule that states that there has to be a certain "pace" in the race?

    A horse that controls the race from the front should be able to do exactly what it wants to try and win the race surely? If there is a safety issue with this, then it's up to stewards to act, either afterwards with fines for endangering participants or introduce a minimum pace requirement for horses finding the front.

    I'm not a jockey, so all this might be BS. But if riding a slow pace is advantageous to your horses chances, that is competitive riding isn't it?

    As for team riding, it should be called out no matter who you are. Not a good look yesterday at all. Could Lucy have done anything in response to the apparently tactic?

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  • TiversTivers    7,598 posts
    Solaia would rather not lead at all...... but didn’t see anyone else sticking their hand up to do so - other than a short stop start upset the rhythm burst from one.

    Also interesting to note the owner of that one has been obliged to attend the hearing.
    When was the last time an owner was called in as such ? (I can’t recall)

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