Ascot 27/2/21

detonator · February 28

Flanders said:

detonator said:
I hear jockeys all the the time say I had a lot of horse under me. Was Carvery thinking that at the 700m when he took off ?. And then realising at the 400m it wasn’t a horse, it was a “cat”.
If he wanted pace why didn’t he keep his horse going to lead at the start instead of restraining it to eyeball the leader. ?
Not sure exactly what the riding fee is but Carvery can send his to me to make up my shortfall on that
rubbish.

(a) So what you and DMac and the ~100 owners are saying is that Solaia should have been unchallenged in the lead?
(b) Was Testing Love ridden outside of its normal pattern? Last start it sat 4th over 1400m and won. It has had 4 starts... is that enough starts to confirm it's best racing pattern? Noting that it hasn't raced beyond 1400m until yesterdays 1800m.
(c) Just because Bob's horses usually race off pace doesn't mean they always will! There looked to be no pace in that race and the odds-on fave would surely lead. Why should they just hand it the race?
(d) The times (overall and sectional) don't justify the criticism. The only thing that justifies it is if you are dirty because you think Solaia should get its own way in front.

You can throw up all the leading vs non leading, times blah blah all you want.
If you reckon Carvery’s ride was giving his horse (again 4 lengths behind the 2nd last horse) its best chance to win then I am looking at a different race.
What experienced jockey goes for home at the 700m and is gone at the 400m. ?
If Testing Love was there to be a pacemaker why didn’t it be the pacemaker ?
Maybe it wanted to provide cover for the 4 cerise and white behind it ?

Flanders · February 28

detonator said:

Flanders said:

detonator said:
I hear jockeys all the the time say I had a lot of horse under me. Was Carvery thinking that at the 700m when he took off ?. And then realising at the 400m it wasn’t a horse, it was a “cat”.
If he wanted pace why didn’t he keep his horse going to lead at the start instead of restraining it to eyeball the leader. ?
Not sure exactly what the riding fee is but Carvery can send his to me to make up my shortfall on that
rubbish.

(a) So what you and DMac and the ~100 owners are saying is that Solaia should have been unchallenged in the lead?
(b) Was Testing Love ridden outside of its normal pattern? Last start it sat 4th over 1400m and won. It has had 4 starts... is that enough starts to confirm it's best racing pattern? Noting that it hasn't raced beyond 1400m until yesterdays 1800m.
(c) Just because Bob's horses usually race off pace doesn't mean they always will! There looked to be no pace in that race and the odds-on fave would surely lead. Why should they just hand it the race?
(d) The times (overall and sectional) don't justify the criticism. The only thing that justifies it is if you are dirty because you think Solaia should get its own way in front.
You can throw up all the leading vs non leading, times blah blah all you want.
If you reckon Carvery’s ride was giving his horse (again 4 lengths behind the 2nd last horse) its best chance to win then I am looking at a different race.
What experienced jockey goes for home at the 700m and is gone at the 400m. ?
If Testing Love was there to be a pacemaker why didn’t it be the pacemaker ?
Maybe it wanted to provide cover for the 4 cerise and white behind it ?

Should he have stayed 3 or 4 deep the trip to get the best chance to win? Barrier 8 of 10 and overracing, what to do? Oh and don't forget- when you're riding for Bob, you better ride it how he tells you to ride it or it might be your last.

Flanders · February 28

hash said:

detonator said:
Not sure why I listen to the “conflicted” commentators on the radio to look for an unbiased view of racing scenario’s such as the Carvery ride.
No matter what occurs they always play the PC card ie don’t upset anyone or the nothing to see here at the expense of the punter.
The comment that the ride could be explained because the stable wanted to see if Testing Love is capable of racing in upcoming staying races ? Really ?
(a) does that sort of ride/racing pattern give you that answer? (considering it finished 4 lengths last)
(b) surely a leading stable like that would already have an indication, rather than use a race where punters have their hard earned on and potentially screw us over.
c) Maybe their not Mcauliffe fans. (Ok. That one is tongue in cheek....maybe ?)
And just for the record I don’t trust those sectionals.

Something you haven’t mentioned about that ride by Carberry yesterday is that the horse he was on has had 4 prior starts for a very good record, 2 wins and 2 second. Now in each of those races it’s not once tried to go to the lead, interesting tactic to go to the lead yesterday considering it’s done pretty bloody well without doing do before

Yes but in maidens and class 1, into a listed race yesterday. It was about a 15-1 chance.
Up 400m too and a predicted farcical pace with an outside barrier. Not a heap of options- not easy to just lob the box seat yeah?

Tivers · February 28

Go forward earlier and lead truely ?
Easy to cross from outside if no pace on.

Flanders · February 28

Tivers said:
Go forward earlier and lead truely ?

Possibly yes. Based on the outcome yesterday it would've still battled to beat a runner home though. It was poor considering they didn't go hard

TheSwooper · February 28

Carbery may have been better pushing the button immediately he got to the breeze but who is to say that Warwick would choose to restrain her mount seeing it was travelling so sweetly (to my eye). In the end, I agree with your assessment that it was poor ride but my sense was that the horse found the class rise too much and would have finished with the also rans regardless of his decisions. Better minds than mine will no doubt sort it out though.

detonator · February 28

Flanders said:

detonator said:

Flanders said:

detonator said:
I hear jockeys all the the time say I had a lot of horse under me. Was Carvery thinking that at the 700m when he took off ?. And then realising at the 400m it wasn’t a horse, it was a “cat”.
If he wanted pace why didn’t he keep his horse going to lead at the start instead of restraining it to eyeball the leader. ?
Not sure exactly what the riding fee is but Carvery can send his to me to make up my shortfall on that
rubbish.

(a) So what you and DMac and the ~100 owners are saying is that Solaia should have been unchallenged in the lead?
(b) Was Testing Love ridden outside of its normal pattern? Last start it sat 4th over 1400m and won. It has had 4 starts... is that enough starts to confirm it's best racing pattern? Noting that it hasn't raced beyond 1400m until yesterdays 1800m.
(c) Just because Bob's horses usually race off pace doesn't mean they always will! There looked to be no pace in that race and the odds-on fave would surely lead. Why should they just hand it the race?
(d) The times (overall and sectional) don't justify the criticism. The only thing that justifies it is if you are dirty because you think Solaia should get its own way in front.
You can throw up all the leading vs non leading, times blah blah all you want.
If you reckon Carvery’s ride was giving his horse (again 4 lengths behind the 2nd last horse) its best chance to win then I am looking at a different race.
What experienced jockey goes for home at the 700m and is gone at the 400m. ?
If Testing Love was there to be a pacemaker why didn’t it be the pacemaker ?
Maybe it wanted to provide cover for the 4 cerise and white behind it ?

Should he have stayed 3 or 4 deep the trip to get the best chance to win? Barrier 8 of 10 and overracing, what to do? Oh and don't forget- when you're riding for Bob, you better ride it how he tells you to ride it or it might be your last.

Flanders said:
What about taking off at the 700m ??? Can you defend that one ?

Flanders said:
If that was Bob’s instruction then W.A racing is in trouble if that is allowed to go on.

Flanders said:
But it is Bob after all .....so play on.

detonator · February 28

^^^^^^ sorry. Stuffed that up.

Precision1 · February 28

I seem to recall A protest being lodged against a horse from the McAuliffe stable alleging team riding a couple of years back and from memory they didn’t take too kindly to that allegation. Seems there’s no issues throwing out that allegation though?

Tivers · February 28

Where / When has the stable thrown out any such allegation ?

Flanders · February 28

Precision1 said:
I seem to recall A protest being lodged against a horse from the McAuliffe stable alleging team riding a couple of years back and from memory they didn’t take too kindly to that allegation. Seems there’s no issues throwing out that allegation though?

Nah I think it was a protest against the DMac stable because one of his shifted off the fence, gifting the stablemate the run. Wasn't a good look. But was taken no further

Tivers · February 28

Yep.
By Decree that was.
Irony of that situation was she was the horse we were actually hoping for the result for (black type for a filly).
Was never any thought to sacrificing her in any way.
(Ran 4th, so narrowly missed).

hash · February 28

TheSwooper said:
Carbery may have been better pushing the button immediately he got to the breeze but who is to say that Warwick would choose to restrain her mount seeing it was travelling so sweetly (to my eye). In the end, I agree with your assessment that it was poor ride but my sense was that the horse found the class rise too much and would have finished with the also rans regardless of his decisions. Better minds than mine will no doubt sort it out though.

Yes you are spot on swoop he should have done so like any other jockey would have especially one that was instructed to ensure it wasn’t a sit and sprint, instead he grabs hold of his mount while it’s pulling just so he could intentionally eyeball Solaia
Any other day of the week a jockey in that situation presses fwd and leads if the pace was as slow as everyone is saying

Precision1 · February 28

Yes that’s the one I was referring to and the stable was definitely unhappy about the allegation is my point, the protest was televised that day so we could see Darren was unhappy about it.

Intake your point the stable as such hasnt made any allegations here but you havent said it was all fine either and the point of the 100 odd owners by someone earlier. Think it’s safe to say some of those are on here throwing stones

LETSDOTHIS · February 28

Testing Love was there to annoy and weaken the chances of Solaia. It’s as easy as that. I doubt we’ll see anyone serve time because of pace of race, rawness of testing love blah blah etc.

Tivers · February 28

Not sure how the stable is responsible for forum members throwing stones.
Suggest most would be aggrieved punters, not owners.
I certainly don’t recognise any as owners.

As an owner not actually a bad result.
Horse copped all that, still beat all the associated horses and ran a massive close up second.
$20k in the bank and no penalty.

Precision1 · February 28

Yeah but you’re not saying you have no issues either which is what I said. Silence can be deafening.

I’ve watched again and thought Lucy handled it really well allowing Testing Love to go to the front and then easily getting back around it when that horse stopped like it was shot. At no point did Solaia look to resent the other horse being there and as stated the pace was slower than the 3 other 1800m races on the day. If Solaia was good enough it should have still won, it didn’t. If you need everyone else to let you do your own thing in order to win you’re probably not that good

paraletic · February 28

“hasnt made any allegations here but you havent said it was all fine either”

Why would they say its all ok? The stewards are looking into the ride. Obviously on face value they saw something that didn't pass the pub test and thus it’s being looked at.

Im not an owner of Solaia.

Tivers · February 28

I just did.
Said horse proved itself, $20k in the bank, happy with the result.
There was no protest (obviously).
Trainer didn’t even speak to the stewards.
I slept well last night.
Kumbaya...

Tivers · February 28

paraletic said:
“hasnt made any allegations here but you havent said it was all fine either”

Why would they say its all ok? The stewards are looking into the ride. Obviously on face value they saw something that didn't pass the pub test and thus it’s being looked at.

Im not an owner of Solaia.

can vouch for that.
Know him and can confirm he is not an owner... :))

Flanders · February 28

Tivers said:
I just did.
Said horse proved itself, $20k in the bank, happy with the result.
There was no protest (obviously).
Trainer didn’t even speak to the stewards.
I slept well last night.
Kumbaya...

I am reliably informed that DMac made a complaint and thats precisely why they launched an enquiry. 110% this is what happened.

Tivers · February 28

You are reliably incorrect.

To put it simply - they were on it from the get go, there would have been no purpose in “making a complaint”, and trainer was actually quite content that he need say nothing.

Flanders · February 28

Ok well someone's telling porkies

Tivers · February 28

Disclaimer - if you count a steely glare as “making a complaint”, you are possibly correct.
I couldn’t defend that :))

detonator · February 28

So let me get this straight.

Owner “not unhappy” about his $1.60 pop running second in dubious circumstances in which our normally conservative stewards instantly open up an inquiry. (Without any prompting from connections)

Prominent trainers and owners bitching about “no tempo races” prior to this race and miraculously we get this debacle.

Jockey said that he was riding to instructions in what was probably his worst ride ever. Oh and the horse didn’t relish the hard surface so forgive the 4 length tail off last.

And here is the undeniable fact....I am one of those punters throwing stones who did his dough on Solaia. Just airing my thoughts as a punter who feels he has been stiffed.

But I am sure I will be vindicated..... hahahaha =)) =)) =))

SLIPPERGOLDEN · February 28

A mass debate (so to speak) going on here. There is only one question that matters and it has been alluded to previously.... Was Testing Love given every opportunity to win the race? Answer... It was given as much chance as Liberal leader Givenup winning the election. Not a Zak.

LETSDOTHIS · February 28

Are all horses given every opportunity to win every race they compete in? What about a stayer going around for a blow out around 1200m first up? It’s up to us as punters to determine which horses are primed and ready to win the race

Rodent · February 28

I would normally have more to say on this but the result was good for me. Backers of Solaia, did it ever cross your mind that this was a possibility given there were 5 cerise/white runners? If not, it should have. Given the possibility, the price was definitely skinny.

detonator · February 28

Do you apply the same logic to any race where Chris Waller has 5 runners and Hugh Bowman slaughters one so JMac can get one of the others home ??

No you don’t, because a ride as blatantly obvious as Carvery’s “carve up” isn’t allowed to go on in the east.

Good on you for backing the winner.

Maybe some of us favourite backers (and there was plenty of us as the price suggested) should be mindful of ruthless team riding tactics that you have suggested Bob employed ?

Manchild · March 1

If Paddy was riding to instructions, then stewards should have been notified. End of story.

He is/was the scapegoat.

G'day Punter!

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