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New Handicapping System for the Trots

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    Markovina said:

    It would be interesting to contrast the entry conditions for the Geelong Rocket tonight 


    That was also a sprint race - a mile - with 24k stake - so pretty simillar type of race

    Geelong Rocket:  NR 90 -120

    Markovina likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    Monday March 1st Pinjarra Cup:

    GROUP 2. FFA OPEN. 3YO and older. FFA OPEN
    (NO CONCESSION CLAIMS) (Level 15). RBD.



    Prizemoney: $50,000
    - 1st $32,000, 2nd $8,000, 3rd $3,500, 4th $2,000, 5th $1,000, 6th
    $500, 7th $500, 8th $500, 9th $500, 10th $500, 11th $500, 12th $500

    Friday March 5th Bunbury Cup:

    GROUP 2. FFA OPEN. 3YO and older. FFA OPEN
    (NO CONCESSION CLAIMS) (Level 15). RBD.



    Prizemoney: $50,000
    - 1st $32,000, 2nd $8,000, 3rd $3,500, 4th $2,000, 5th $1,000, 6th
    $500, 7th $500, 8th $500, 9th $500, 10th $500, 11th $500, 12th $500

    Programming a la extradordinaire.

    VillageKid, Gilgamesh, freodockers likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    Markovina said:

    It would be interesting to contrast the entry conditions for the Geelong Rocket tonight 


    That was also a sprint race - a mile - with 24k stake - so pretty simillar type of race

    And i would bet my bottom dollar that a horse of Gordons calibre and race record - would not get within a bulls roar of the entry requirements for that Geelong rocket 
    Marko
    Similar distance and stake money but one is for fast class and the other is a restricted race 
    All the runners in the Village Kid at Northam have NR of less than 90.
    The Geelong race was for NR 90-120
    +1 -1
  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    I have a question.

    L5$ LT $4, 000 (CONCESSIONS L5$ LT $5, 500) 
    NE Horses with Max Start Level 7+ Last 5 Starts 
    NE Horses with Max Win Level 4+ Last 5 Starts (Level 4) 
    Restricted to horses with 5+ WA Starts. 
    Field selected on L5$ in Ascending Order (Concessions for Novice Driver, Fillies & Mares)

    If a horse has had a start in a race designated HWOE LT $32,500 L7/8 (CL9) in its last 5 starts, is it eligible to compete?
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    NE Horses with Max Start Level 7+ Last 5 Starts  - Nope.
    +1 -1
  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?

    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.


    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    October 10 at Bunbury? Does the word "conditioned" L7/8 (CL9) provide the get out?
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    282 posts
    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    So the NE clause means nothing?
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    aussiebattler said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)



    That makes sense, did think it was ordinary he could race in a metro 3yo against some quality horses and roll into a $L5 LT4k though
    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    282 posts
    Rocket_Reign said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)



    That makes sense, did think it was ordinary he could race in a metro 3yo against some quality horses and roll into a $L5 LT4k though
    well placed ,these races arent designed for horses that are struggling just ones that use the system (which could be deemed a flaw or an effective loophole)

    JayJay The NE clause would only affect higher assessed horses racing in the system dropping their race level by using the L5$ LT races not the ones working their way up the ranks 
    +1 -1
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    System is working great, look at the bumper field sizes for Friday.

    Only in to the third racing month of the year, must still be the transition phase from season end to start up that has the numbers so low.......
    +1 -1
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    565 posts
    Another 
    Gilgamesh said:

    System is working great, look at the bumper field sizes for Friday.

    Only in to the third racing month of the year, must still be the transition phase from season end to start up that has the numbers so low.......

    The system doesn't work, i hear more horses left for NSW yesterday.

    I wonder how many horses have gone to the East in the last 12 months because they are better suited under the NR system?


    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    56

    freodockers likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    No that you’ve been counting JJ
    +1 -1
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    565 posts
    JayJay said:

    56

    I wonder what the magical figure is before they change?
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    You would expect that they won’t change.
    Rather they will wait for the newer breeding stocks to work there way through.
    My opinion only.

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    JayJay said:

    56

    I wonder what the magical figure is before they change?



    Surely the buying will slow down soon, Jurd is the main buyer and he’d be losing money hand over fist
    +1 -1
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    aussiebattler said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)
    correct

    every horse has a start level for each start and every race has a race level
    the start level given for each start is the lower level of
    A - the HWOE level of the horse
    B - the race level

    this allows horses with lower HWOE levels to start in higher level races and then come back to their level just like happened under MCR



    +1 -1
  • maybesomaybeso    84 posts
    edited March 2021
    getthechange said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)

























































    correct

    every horse has a start level for each start and every race has a race level
    the start level given for each start is the lower level of
    A - the HWOE level of the horse
    B - the race level

    this allows horses with lower HWOE levels to start in higher level races and then come back to their level just like happened under MCR



    Ok, you have got me. Where, exactly, is this written in the published rules for the handicapping system. I am buggered if I can find it.

    How many other idiosyncrities are buried somewhere out of sight?
    +1 -1
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    getthechange said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    maybeso said:

    Then who is checking eligibility of horses at RWWA?


    Medieval Man, on Friday night, won a race it is not eligible for.





    I was suprised he was eligible but didn’t look into it just seen it in his available races when I nominated
    don't think the start level rises above your assessed level you could have started in a FFA and still be max Start level 6 due to your HWOE assessment still at 
    L6 (H$16492.86)

























































    correct

    every horse has a start level for each start and every race has a race level
    the start level given for each start is the lower level of
    A - the HWOE level of the horse
    B - the race level

    this allows horses with lower HWOE levels to start in higher level races and then come back to their level just like happened under MCR





    Ok, you have got me. Where, exactly, is this written in the published rules for the handicapping system. I am buggered if I can find it.

    How many other idiosyncrities are buried somewhere out of sight?
    took a while t find but there was a media release in April 2019
    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,900 posts
    Rocket_Reign said:

    AbbysAce said:

    JayJay said:

    56

    I wonder what the magical figure is before they change?



    Surely the buying will slow down soon, Jurd is the main buyer and he’d be losing money hand over fist
    How would  he be losing money - most of them he bought would have been as cheap as chips - 10k max id reckon - and all of them have paid their way - Rousey which he sent to QLD - won  7 in a row up their 

    The only one hed be underwater with at present - is your horse Bolta - might have had to go to 15k with that one - and it hasnt won yet - only run a couple of 2nds - but if the horse is still sound - it will probably end up in Qld as well 

    Him and his partner - are obviously doing it for a hobby - however i dont think there would be much red ink on the ledger at this point in time 
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    If he paid 10k for most of those Marko he’s paying way overs, most of them would be 5.0k max plus float fee 2.0k
    Agree Bolta bit more.

    westerncat likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • rooster321rooster321    186 posts
    Think you will find most of them were between 8-12k

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Well if their paying that sort of money then it’s no wonder there being moved on. And Rocket is correct, it won’t last long.

    Rocket_Reign, westerncat likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,799 posts
    Pale to insignificance compared to what  the kiwis have been charging last few years----unless the trainers are getting the old  rollie-back. trick  which was happening  in the eighties. Think the n.s.w buyers like the ones in racing condition save 6k.
    +1 -1
  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts
    savethegame said:

    Pale to insignificance compared to what  the kiwis have been charging last few years----unless the trainers are getting the old  rollie-back. trick  which was happening  in the eighties. Think the n.s.w buyers like the ones in racing condition save 6k.



    They charge it but people continue to pay it
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    Markovina said:

    Rocket_Reign said:

    AbbysAce said:

    JayJay said:

    56

    I wonder what the magical figure is before they change?



    Surely the buying will slow down soon, Jurd is the main buyer and he’d be losing money hand over fist
    How would  he be losing money - most of them he bought would have been as cheap as chips - 10k max id reckon - and all of them have paid their way - Rousey which he sent to QLD - won  7 in a row up their 

    The only one hed be underwater with at present - is your horse Bolta - might have had to go to 15k with that one - and it hasnt won yet - only run a couple of 2nds - but if the horse is still sound - it will probably end up in Qld as well 

    Him and his partner - are obviously doing it for a hobby - however i dont think there would be much red ink on the ledger at this point in time 



    Most of them I know exactly what he’s paying, plus it’s approx 2k transport most are still at a loss and the debt is only growing if you take into consideration what training fees would be.
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    Tonight at Penrith he has.
    Lucinda Jamarr Royalhotshot Happy As and Fair Le Fate, none of those as of yet have paid transport + purchase price back and as I said that’s not even taking into account the costs since arrival

    westerncat likes this post.

    +1 -1
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